Used mandolin value

[swinginmandolins]

I've been pondering why some mandolins ie Weber tank when it comes to resale value and others say Collings loose very little. I understand demand is one, and market saturation, quality sound. To me it seems there are alot of both examples. What are your thoughts?

[swinginmandolins]

I wanted to add that I'm not worried about making money on my mandos...they are my tools and when I want to get a differnt tool I don't want to loose too much....I can't afford to http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[arbarnhart]

One thing that seems to be pretty common, if not universal, is that musical instruments carry lifetime warranties for the original owner but they are not transferable. That certainly affects resale and IMO is one of the major reasons that values drop so much when something isn't new. You could extrapolate that and say that given higher quality, there is less chance of a problem so not having a warranty carries less risk and has less negative impact on value. Then there is the consistent sound argument - if the sound of a given model is very consistent, then it matters less which specific one you get. But is it isn't consistent, it's likely that the less desirable ones show up in the used market more often than the better ones. Largely speculation; mostly I think it's just collective subjective thinking...

[steve V. johnson]

One thing that's interesting is that there are some dealers (of guitars and basses, too, not just mandolins) who list a lot of a couple different brands on eBay, but not as auctions, as Buy-It-Now items and they virtually -never- sell. The asking prices are usually high or reflect some boiler-plate little discount.

Some dealers will throw in a new instrument with a pretty significant discount, then end the auction by saying that the mando sold in the store, but that just looks to me like a bait-&-switch game because they don't really want to sell a new instrument at that discount. But it's odd, because so many, a very high percentage of those items go unsold... Can it be that having a bunch of eBay listings that don't sell a great way to advertise? It must be...

There's been a fair amount of discussion about whether auction prices actually reflect the market or not, but it sure is a nice pool of information to look at, especially if you go back six months or a year to look at what figures new and used instruments actually sell for... And it's interesting to note how many times they've been listed, etc., too. It's fun (for me... <GG>) to have such a huge marketplace to look at.

stv

[JGWoods]

Mandolins are no different than motorcycles and probably many other things when it comes to the number of auctions that go by without a sale- reserve not met, too high an opening bid, etc..
Completed sales show current pricing and I have no trouble selling when I price things according to that ebay reality. Also I think there's no harm in relisting- once. Put an instrument up on ebay with high expectations and high reserve or opening bid and then, if it doesn't sell relist with a lower price. When I see an item going through multiple relists I stop looking, assuming the seller is a dreamer or something is wrong with the item .

[allenhopkins]

Collings vs. Weber -- difference in resale values? Is this true? Totally neutral, since I've never owned either, but reading this board for a few months, there seems to be a greater range of viewpoints on Weber (some love 'em, some don't) than Collings (almost universally favorable). Have to leave it up to the W and C owners to sort that out.

Mandolins are inherently a small market, and many of us know what other mando people are thinking and doing. Really interesting question... And also, how do other manufacturers (Gibson, Breedlove, the Asian imports, the recently "deceased" like Rigel and Mid-Missouri) compare?

[kudzugypsy]

this is just simple supply and demand - there is no *reason* why it happens.

it also has a lot to do with current trends in music (which can change over time)
the brands with a higher retail presence (ie, you can buy one today), opposed to brands/makers who you must get on a waiting list, always lose more value.

[EdSherry]

As with most things economic, it's a matter of supply and demand. #I'd suggest that Collings are "hot" now, there aren't a lot of used ones out there (compared to Weber), and so the used ones retain a higher percentage of their value. #

I would also agree with AllenHopkins that (on the basis of postings I've seen) people seem more consistently satisfied with Collings than with Webers, which (in my experience) can be uneven (I have a nice Absaroka, but I've played a number of Webers I was not impressed with, which is not true of the various Collings I've played).

With respect to whether auction prices reflect "true" value: #to an economist, "true" value is market value. #For better or worse, eBay is the best available source of what goods are fetching in the market. #And it's an incredibly efficient market, with hundreds or thousands of interested buyers checking out everything that's available -- far more than in most retail stores, where you're dependent on what the proprietor thinks it's worth.

Stv -- I agree that lots of sellers list items at a Buy It Now price that doesn't sell. #No different from a retail store having an item on the wall with a marked price that doesn't sell immediately (eBay auctions only last a week or so). #I agree that some of the sellers clearly are clueless as to the prices they're asking, but that's their problem. #

I agree that you have to look at transaction prices, not asking prices (just as with anything else, like used cars).

[Jim M.]

I'm avoiding work a little bit, so here's a quick analysis taken from the Cafe ads. This shows the mandolin, and the asking price as a percentage of "suggested retail". Where there was more than one of a given mando, I averaged the prices. I also avoided using the highly customised ones, because those are outliers and not reflective of general trends, in my opinion.

Gallatin Mandolin # 44%
Yellowstone Mandolin # 66%
Fern Mandolin # # # #68%
Hyalite Mandolin 55%
Absaroka Mandolin 50%
Sweet Pea - Single 54%

MT Gloss 75%
MF # # # #78%
MT # # # #60%

Although this analysis seems to suggest that Webers indeed lose more value, there are a couple of factors that I didn't consider. One is the relation of "suggested retail" to actual retail price. It could be that suggested retail for Webers is higher in comparision to actual retail than for Collings. The other thing I didn't factor in is age. The Collings are generally much newer than the Webers, and that certainly has some effect on the asking re-sale price. #Also, note that Webers higher-end F styles seem to hold value better, probably reflecting the market's willingness to pay more for an F.

Well, back to work now. # http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[JEStanek]

How about prices between Webers and Flatirons?

Jamie

[stevem]

Note: Non-economist (me) arguing with economist (Ed). I may hose this up...
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

It may not be fair to say that the selling price on Ebay is the "true value", if one considers the "Winner's Curse." This "curse" is a tendency for the winning bid to exceed the intrinsic value of an item being auctioned.

Explained: We all have some level of uncertainty (hopefully small if we've done our homework) as to the true value of an item. Because enough people know the item is roughly worth at least x amount and bid accordingly, in competitive bidding wars, pricing virtually always reaches at least the "true value." But, some bidder(s) inevitably overestimate the value, especially in large auction forums like e-bay. So the winner of this auction overpays for the item. Because of this, an auction price typically reflects an inflation of a item's "true value."

[Walter Newton]

Another factor to consider is that if someone bought their mandolin (say a Weber in the above comparison) a number of years ago, they likely paid a good less for it than the prices they currently sell for...compared to the original selling price, it may be holding its value well after all.

[EdSherry]

SteveM -- You raise a good point.

I'm quite familiar with the winner's curse concept (it was one of the topics I discussed in my PhD dissertation). #The phenomenon of "winner's curse" arises in what economists call "common value" auctions, where there is "a" "true value" of the asset, but people have different estimates of what that "true value" is. #(The quintessential example is an oil field lease.) #That model doesn't apply very well to consumer goods, where different people place different values on "the same" good.

Rational buyers will reduce their bids to reflect the prospect of being cursed. #That is one reason why some sellers (e.g., many of those on Mandolin Cafe) give 48 hour approval periods -- so that customers can be satisfied that the item is worth (to them) what they're paying.

But even if they don't, that does not make the final price any less of a "market price." #All it means is that winning bidders will be disappointed at having paid the "market price."

I agree that there is a difference between subjective valuation and market price.

[Rick Schmidlin]

My Collings has nrver gotten a bad praise,I think 100 years from now it will stand the $ test of time.