Pain / numbness in the fingers - switch to a uke?

[mehrsam]

Advancing age and the onset of carpal tunnel syndrome are resulting in pain and numbness in my hands and fingers whenever I play my mandolin; same with my OM. I do hand and finger exercises, wear therapeutic gloves and take frequent breaks when playing but it's probably never going to get better.

I'm considering a uke as an alternative; perhaps the nylon strings w/ less tension would help alleviate some of the pain. I'm not a BG player, nor do I play professionally; it's either for my own enjoyment or as accompaniment with my church worship and praise band. Anyone else faced with this dilemna?

I ran a search for "ukulele" in the forums, but I'd like to read any suggestions for starting with a good instrument and choosing between a tenor or baritone uke.

[hepcat mando]

Mark,
# # I can relate to a degree. I have had issues with tendonitus and slight problems with cubital tunnel syndrome over the years. I have been to chiropractors with some success and I try to stretch consistently through out the day every day. What seems to help me the most is working/massaging the muscles in my forearm and tricep especially before and after playing. You would also be surprised at how much stretching the muscles in your neck and back affects your wrists. I know if I am feeling tension in my neck it will affect the outer part of my wrist. I have heard plus/minus arguements regarding surgery...I think I would consider that as a last resort.
Hope this helps a little.

[Doug Edwards]

I have the same problem. My doctor put me on Cymbalta 60 mg and it cleared it up. Cymbalta is an anti-depressant, which don't hurt either, that has properties that reduce the pain and help the nerve function.

[gnelson651]

While I don't suffer from the same malady, I find that if I have any tension in my hand, my fingers start to go numb. It seems that I use too much pressure to both hold the mandolin neck with the thumb and fingers to fret. I'm making a conscience effort to learn to relax my hand and to retrain my fingers by using the least amount of pressure needed to fret.

This is taking some time in that I slowly put my fingertip #to fret and add pressure until I can pick a clean note. I also maintain a very relaxed state in my hand and just rest my thumb on the back of the neck lightly. I also monitor the tension in my arm, shoulder and neck and try to maintain a relaxed state throughout these areas.

I'm noticing improvement and no numbness. I know this may not help you with your immediate problem but I have to wonder if such maladies of the hand, such as yours is caused by too much tension in the hand, along with the arm, shoulder and neck.

As we get older (I'm 54), I don't think our bodies can stand this type of habit of stress and tension and we end up developing debilitating handicaps.

Good luck, hope the uke works out for you. I've thought about getting a uke myself, they look like fun to play.

[allenhopkins]

Good article on this subject in the current issue of Wood & Steel, the Taylor Guitars newsletter. Here's a link to the Taylor website where you can download it as a PDF;
Wood & Steel current issue (http://www.taylorguitars.com/news/community/woodandsteel.html)

Good luck!

[glauber]

Uke: i would recommend a concert-sized Uke, which is a slightly larger soprano. I recommend contacting Alternate Tunings (http://www.alternatetunings.com/). They can get you an ukulele strung up like a mandolin (with nylon strings) if you want. They have a Johnsh "Spanish soprano" that's a great instrument for you to check out, it's plywood but sounds great and costs only $40. Add very nice strings and postage and you're still under $60. I have one, it's really a nice instrument.

The main irritation with ukes is that most of them (including the Johnson) use old-timey friction tuners, which are a pain in the posterior if you're used to geared tuners. But you'll survive...

I would also recommend you practice using as little finger tension as possible on your mandolin. Practice slowly and find out how little finger tension you can get away with and still produce a sound. As a rule, most of us use /WAY/ too much finger pressure.

Another thing to try is get rid of 1 string in each pair, and play 4-string mandolin. This is what Chris Thile did when he had hand problems (i heard him say this in a taped concert).

[SternART]

I like that single string idea.......good one Glauber!

[Slim Pickins]

I have joint pains in my fingers also. More so in the winter in this Northern Wisconsin climate. Age is also an issue. 71 years old. Dang I must be the oldest picker on the board. But, life goes on, and we play our music.

" Make a joyful noise "

[JEStanek]

I have a concert sized Fuke at Elderly for example (http://elderly.com/search/elderly?terms=fluke). I think it sounds pretty good considering it's practically all plastic except the top and back of the neck. American made and the tuners work well.
I also have a Kamaka concert uke (also American made) all in koa which sounds way better but it cost 2-3x the fluke. The Bushman Jenny uke has a great rep (similar to the Eastman of the Uke world in terms of quality build/tone).

I don't know if a uke will change your hand / wrist issues but they're a joy to play

I do think the fluke is easier to fret than the mando. The concert size is closer to the mando. But the voice isn't quite as broad given standard uke tuning. Mandozine now has Uke World with some tab to get you started.

Jamie

[hanknc]

Here's a link to a boss ukulele :

http://www.meleukulele.com/

The mahogany standard is what I have at home.

Hank

P.S. Ever tried tuning your mandolin open and playing slide?

[keymandoplyr]

hey mando dude Im almost up withya I turned 70 in Oct. still playing out 2 to 3 times a week ! several of my fellow players are in their 80s so hang in there http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[ajm]

Perhaps a setup change on your mandolin to a lower action at the bridge and especially the nut would be helpful in alleviating the problem.

[rmcintos]

I have similar numbness in my hands due to some previous elbow/shoulder injuries. What seems to help me is to ice the problem area (15 minutes on, 15 minutes off), take frequent breaks (usually a 15 minute break for evry 45 minutes of playing), and like Glauber mendtioned to string up only four strings instead of the usual eight.

[Slim Pickins]

hey mando dude Im almost up withya I turned 70 in Oct. still playing out 2 to 3 times a week ! #several of my fellow players are in their 80s so hang in there #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif
Thanks Ken. #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/coffee.gif Have 1 on me.

[Mandojulie]

Hi Mark,

You say you're wearing therapeudic gloves... Have you ever tried the wrist brace that cocks your hand back? I have had trouble with numbness and pain in fingers, tried the chiropracter but no luck until he gave me (ok, sold me - TNSTAFL)the wrist brace that cocks your hand back. I guess you could wear them all the time but I just wore them at night felt better the next morning and in a week or so I was cured. Now if I feel tingle-y at all I'll throw the wrist brace on. I should say if I feel tingle-y in my fingers, it's not that sexy a look.

[jim_n_virginia]

mando dude I had numbness and pain in my hands and a doctor friend who plays fiddle told me to exaimine the way I hold and fret the mandolin and makes changes like the way I hold my pick and to fret just hard enough to get your note (takes a lot of practice and harder than you would think!).

I hold my hands looser and drop my arms between song or whenever I can to keep blood flowing, helps a lot with the numbness.

good luck!

[ben_wv]

If other alternatives don't pan out, what about a Dobro? If heard it mentioned before on this forum as an alternative for folks who are having severe fingering problems. Also, as Sam Bush would tell you, there's always slide mando...
I hope that you find a solution that will but your pain in the backseat and allows you to continue playing, whatever instrument you end up with.

[MandoSquirrel]

mando dude I had numbness and pain in my hands and a doctor friend who plays fiddle told me to exaimine the way I hold and fret the mandolin and makes changes like the way I hold my pick and to fret just hard enough to get your note (takes a lot of practice and harder than you would think!).

I hold my hands looser and drop my arms between song or whenever I can to keep blood flowing, helps a lot with the numbness.

good luck!
These type problems are what led David Grisman to try radiused fretboards way back when. I'd check the technique and fretboard/action/setup first. Also important, check with a perfforming arts or sports doctor for body/hand/arm mechanics issues, or at least a physical or occupational therapist. They may be able to get you over the problem.
First thing I would do specific to the arm & hand would be Therapeutic Massage, at least from the shoulder all the way down the arm, though the back & general body posture/mechanics could be involved as well. I am a massge therapist, so I tell you this from some knowledge & experience. By the way, a spa type "fluff & buff' therapist may Not be qualified for this type work, be sure to ask detailed questions before booking.

[Richard H]

A cuatro is a wonderful, handy instrument and easy to play. It is tuned to the same notes as the uke (I think) but the first string is low.

Or you can tune it like the first four strings of a guitar at either 5th or 7th fret for solo work. The Venezuelans can make them talk almost.

I bought a cheap one some years ago for US25 and actually used it for solo work on a CD. Sounded good too but was difficult to amplify without feedback so I switched to mando.

[mrbook]

I have been having numbness problems since summer, and have even had the left hand fingers go numb while playing a gig. No fun, and it is worse on the mandolin than banjo or guitar. I usually switch between banjo and mandolin, and I think the shorter scale - which would be similar with a ukulele - aggravates the problem. That wouldn't stop me from getting a uke, but it might not solve your difficulties. Lately I don't play much unless I'm performing, which probably seems strange (and I don't like it), but I get through the gigs. I am also experimenting with strap length, instrument angle, etc., while addressing the carpel tunnel problem (trying to avoid surgery).

If your mandolin has good action you should be okay; it's not the string pressure that makes your fingers numb. I can get my fingers to all the usual spots, but I just can't feel anything sometimes.

[mehrsam]

Thanks for all of your replies.

I will look into the wrist brace that Gruntled@45 suggested. It's interesting that nobody mentioned surgery, which is what I hear quite a bit from friends and family...I'm a big chicken when it comes to that. The fact that I am a part-time carpenter and cabinetmaker doesn't help either (lots of repetitive motion). But those are like my music - joys that outweigh the discomfort.

Uke, slide mando, lap steel, cuatro...it looks like lots of possibilities are available for those of us who are drawn to these funny little instruments.

Thanks again.

[MandoSquirrel]

Thanks for all of your replies.

I will look into the wrist brace that Gruntled@45 suggested. It's interesting that nobody mentioned surgery, which is what I hear quite a bit from friends and family...I'm a big chicken when it comes to that. T
Again, as a massage therapist, Avoid surgery if at all possible; it's effective about 15% of the time. Not worth it unless nothing else helps, & maybe not even then.

If the instrument is properly set up, it's probably in the technique, so retraining out of bad habits will prevent further damage (If you can retrain according to Classical mandolin hand positions.), but you may need therapy to correct the current problem.

Reread "jim_n_virginia"'s post& try it.