Gibson vs. Weber

[Chip Booth]

Hi All,

I am about to take the plunge and spend around 5-6K on an F style intended mainly for bluegrass. #This is my budget, and I intend to buy a great instrument once and not have to do it again, since I don't have the money to do it again. #I could really use some suggestions as to how Weber stacks up against the almighty Gibson, as I percieve Weber to be a better value, and certainly a smaller company that cares about it's customer base. #I also like the simple customization process they offer. #Nonetheless, Gibson has been king as long as there has been Bluegrass, so that is a huge consideration. #Your thoughts?

[Big Joe]

I'm frightened to post here, but I'm not smart enough to stay away http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif. While I have my predjudice, both are fine companies. We both offer beautiful instruments at a fair price through a large dealer network. Both companies stand behind their products without question and do all possible to make our end users happy customers. The best real advice I can give is to play them and see what you like. We are not identical in the way we build our instruments and some will argue one is better than another in that. I have my point of view and Webber and the wonderful folks there have thier point of view. However, either would be a good choice. Good hunting for your favorite instrument!

[carleshicks]

Joe that was a very nice post. I know you wanted to tell him to buy a Gibson

Awww,
Big Joe you posted before we got the popcorn started!
This may die a gracious death after all! Well said.
If I was going to plunk down that kind of change I would play as many as I could get my hands on until I found THE ONE I couldn't part with. Then I would buy. I sure wouldn't buy from any builder unplayed and unheard at any price.

[Russ(String-Alley)]

Get out and play them, Thats the real fun part. Let you ears and fingers be your guide. You can't go wrong with either company. They are some of the best made, its whatever feels right to you.
cheers

[danman]

For that kind of a budget don't limit your search between Gibson and Weber. Russ is right, the fun will be in playing all of those high end instruments.

[pickinNgrinnin]

Heck yes, with that kind of cash, you have a _lot_ of Mandolins to be looking at. Expand the search and enjoy the hunt.

A very balanced comment Big Joe! Nice job.

[dasspunk]

$.02...

If I were hunting for a mando from one of the big builders, I would look at a Collings over both a Weber and Gibson. I have yet to play a bad one... can't say the same for the others. Their consistency and quality is quite impressive.

[Chip Booth]

Thanks all for the good and logical advice. #I certainly will take my time and explore as many options as I can, though I live in a remote area and my options are limited without some serious travel. These are the two companies I have the best access to, and the most options to choose from. #

Thanks Joe, for the nice remarks about a competitor. #It's good to see businesses not cutting each other's throats. #I also think it's great that Gibson employees post here regularly. #You mentioned there are basic differences in the construction of Gibson mandolins vs. Weber. #Anyone care to comment on those differences?

Any other thoughts you have about mandolins of this nature are appreciated.

[jacobw]

I'd like to take a three-pronged approach to this reply.

1) #I would second the recommendation to give Collings mandos a serious look. #I just played a 'no-frills' MT model this past weekend that wowed me in construction, feel, and sound. #Collings seems to have it together as far as consistency, construction, and sound, in my opinion.

2) #I own a Weber Aspen #1 "celtic style" mandolin. #The construction and sound is top notch in my opinion, and the customer service they provide through Paula Jean Lewis is unrivaled. #I don't own an arch-top, f-holed Weber, so my expertise ends there.

3) #The Gibson's I've played at their Showcase at Opry Mills were equally well crafted instruments, and if you read the Cafe as often as I do, you'll find BigJoe and Charlie D stand behind their product, love their jobs, and are proud of the instruments being made today. #Rightfully so, in my opinion.

If I had your budget, I'd certainly try to find a dealer that had a wide selection and a chance to try these out side by side. #I will once again vouch for the customer service of Gibson and Weber, and praise the consistency of the Collings instruments I've played thus far.

In regards to the construction differences between Gibson and Weber, I'm by no means an expert here, but I think the two major responses you'll get will be in regards to neck joining and bracing. #Charlie D and Gibson swear by tone bar bracing and a dove-tailed neck joint. #I believe the folks at Weber use a bolt on neck and have the option of x bracing or tone bars.

Owners and aficionados of these brands will surely speak up to point out any other main differences, and offer their thoughts on how those differences affect the tone of the mandolin over time.

-Jacob Wegner

The term "bolt on neck" apparently inspires a variety of mental images (Frankenstein??). #There was a detailed explanation of the joining system used by Weber in this thread (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=12;t=14566).

There are so many variables with the construction of a mandolin, brand reputation is really only good as a way to narrow the field. #Any brand/model combination can include a treasure as well as trash - especially when you factor in the tastes of the person evaluating.

That last paragraph was just a long-winded way of agreeing with the playing of a lot and buying the one that "speaks to you". #Even if you have to take $500 of that amount you have to spend and buy a round-trip plane ticket somewhere.

[GBG]

I would strongly consider investing in a trip to Gregg Boyd's store in Montana to sample all of the abovementioned mandolins.

[Blind_Cowboy]

When I saw this post, I checked it out just to see what Charlie or BigJoe would say!

Very nice reply BigJoe.

[mandomac]

I'm new to the cafe but heres my 2 cents worth. Last year I was able to beg my wife to get a new mando.I played everything.I always wanted a Gibson,but like everyone else,The budget was a factor.I then found and played the Gibson f-9.After playing others, I decided to buy it.The sound and workmanship is top notch. I`ve had other mando players who owns Gibsons play it and they were equally impressed.Its stripped down,and definetly "no-frills",but it has the same tone and sound as the more pricey Gibsons..Also,I got for around $2300 new... Goodluck

[John Flynn]

For that kind of money, I would consider getting a well-known builder to make me exactly what I want. Just a thought.

[Chip Booth]

jflynnstl wrote: I would consider getting a well-known builder to make me exactly what I want.

That is a strong consideration and one of the reasons I am so seriously considering Webber. #Custom finishes, inlay, neck shape and width, etc. are all very normal for them as I understand it. #If it makes you all feel better I plan to make a trip to the big city this weekend to put on my hands on as many models as I can, and take it from there http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Thanks for the input, keep those suggestions coming.

[krishna]

Chiptooth, Tim in va has the best idea of anything else here.$500 invested in a plane ticket is exactly what is called for.Find the biggest store selection nearest were you live,and go play your heart out.If you have the cash ready,you could chose to wait and see, maybe, about buying a smaller makers mandolin.Do your research on this site. Take your time.Take notes on what every Luthier has to offer.I'd make sure it would come with a radiused fingerboard also. (What are the Dude's Fs going for and how long is the wait for one?) I bought my nice one when I lived in Winnipeg, and I'll tell ya, there was'nt lots there at the time. (Gavin Baird was'nt making untill well after I bought mine)I ended up ordering a mando that was being given rave reviews by everyone,BUT untill the day I got it,(2years later) I had never even been in the same room as one.I knew right away, that I had a new best freind, and I have'nt looked back since. After everything was said and done though, I still wish I had gone to Mandolin Bros in New York, and spent 2 or 3 days trying everything they had to offer.In case you're wondering, it was the toughest 2 year wait of my life! # Kerry

[diamond ace]

chipbooth, The two you mention (weber and gibson) are indeed very good instruments. I will chime in as a weber owner! I had the fine folks at weber build me a custom instrument, a highly customized yellowstone to be exact. They did a great job. I can't brag on them enough. Paula called me and e-mailed me the entire time they were working on my mandolin to let me know what was going onand how thins were going. I had my mandolin built with a custom radius fingerboard (12 degree), custom color, custom DOT inlay in the fingerboard(2.5 mm), "the weber" script and weber flower pot design inlay on peg head, custom filled tail piece, tone bars, upgrade in wood, breddee traditional bridge, .... anyway they did it all perfectly!!! Paula even called me to tell me the mandolin would be held up for a week or so because when she saw the inlay on the peghead she thought the pearl used could have been better and for a custom instrument it needed "the best" the had. so with out me even knowing she had them inlay another peghead vener at no extra cost to me!!! And by the way the mandolin is the best playing best sounding mandolin i have ever owned!!!! Bar none!!! ANd I have Had plenty of them.
But again you should play and try as many as you can and get what YOU like!! Good Luck. I think both companies have great customer service, But my expereance with Weber was GREAT!!

[Dan Cole]

Mandotater,
Where do you live in Idaho? I'd let you take my Weber Big Sky for a test drive. I think you'd like the tone fit and finish. When I bought it I compared a Gibson F5-G, F-9 and the Weber BIg Sky. I'm real happy with it. I'm in Boise, perhaps we can get together.

[dfrady]

Glad to hear that you're gonna get a mandolin, as far as Weber vs. Gibson, i would have to say Weber all the way. I purchased a Weber back in Oct. 2003 and it is an AMAZEING mandolin, the volume and tone of it is just, WOW !!! and the playability of the radiused fret board is outstanding !!! And as far as customer service, who could ask for any better then at Sound To Earth. Weber takes GREAT Pride in building mandolins and taking care of his customers, as far as gibson all they care about is the all mighty dollar. I haven't played any model of gibson mandolins that are worth what they are asking for them. Now i'm not saying that gibson doesn't make good mandolins, don't misunderstand me, i'm just saying that in my opinion they are Extremely over priced and you could get a Soooo much better mando than a gibson for half the money. I don't know what model of gibson you looking at but just for example a gibson master model lists for a little over $14,000.00, a Colling MF5 lists for $7200.00 and a Weber Fern lists for $6000.00 Please keep in mind these are meerly my opinions and apologize if i have offended anyone, but i would have to say Weber all the way !!! Good Luck at what ever you decide to do !!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[GTison]

Apples to oranges to pecans.
play as many as you can. the plane ticket doen't sound like a bad Idea. I traveled about1500 miles RT to try out different mandolins for 2 days. Nashville , LouisvilleKY, Birmingham. I bought a fern gibson. but If I couldn't do that I would trust webber esp if i lived in ID. I know a guy who is selling his collings for 6000 and its a good un if you like those. play em then buy the one which YOU like. It's like choosing a wife.

[BigJoe]

dfrady.....you are not comparing equal products. The Webber Fern is a fine instrument and the price is fair. The Collings is a nice instrument. However, they do not compare to the Master Model. They are more comparable to the Gibson Fern. The Master Model is build with different woods and glues and uses a hand applied varnish/french polish finish. The others are all lacuer instruments. While I don't mind being compared to instruments similar, it is not fair to anyone to compare instruments not closely related. There is a reason the Fern by Gibson and Webber and the Collings are in the same price range and the Master Model is significantly higher.

[dfrady]

dfrady.....you are not comparing equal products.[QUOTE]

I apologize, but i had stated in my thread "just for example". But when even comparing the Weber Fern, Collings MF5, to a gibson f5-l, i would still take either one over the gibson, because i feel that the customer is getting a better product for that kind of money.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[Big Joe]

Hey Chiptooth Mandoeater....Gibson will also build a custom mandolin for you. All you need to do is have your dealer get the specs you want and we will give a quote for that product. I don't think many people realize we can and will do custom work. Anyway, just wanted to mention that. Thank you.

[doc holiday]

Here's another $0.02 before I paid for a ticket to NY i'd drive over to Logan and see Bruce W and Paula. And i'd stop in a Greg Boyd's in Missoula along the way at the moment he has lot's of great mandolins. I'd also second all those accolades to Weber as far as custom work having one myself. It's always a great opportunity to talk to the builders rather than always communicating through the dealer. Paula and Bruce are great to work with.

Regards
Doc

[fpaxton]

here' my 2 cents....
I am anxiously awaiting my custom Weber Fern from Greg Boyd's shop. He, his staff, Paula, John and Brett at Sound to Earth have been exemplary to work with. Paula has been a saint answering questions, especially when she's got her hands full with all her other chores. She is one busy AND popular lady. I have nothing against Gibson and Big Joe has been very professional in his comments. I just happened to have already owned a Weber and wanted to upgrade with Weber. My mando instructor is a Gibson man (Herschel Sizemore), and I fear he's gonna be very disappointed. I'd do most anything for that man.......... a great musician and instructor. Forgive me, Herschel.

[onlyagibsonisgoodenuff]

I'll add a little of my own insight here. As far as which is better, I believe each player has their own preference in tone, appearance, etc. Both companies have great service and are eager to keep the customer happy with their respective mandolins. I think that there are so many great builders out there, you should not limit yourself to only the two aforementioned brands. I have a Collings as well as a Gibson, and though they sound completely different, I love them both and try to play them both as much as possible to keep 'em both opened up and sounding good. Not that I have any financial interest, but I'm also eagerly awaiting the delivery of my new Lawrence Smart F-5!

[Big Joe]

fpacton.....Hershel is a great man, a great player, and a great friend. I envy you having such a great person teaching you. He is one of the people we like best and it is always an honor to have him visit us here.

[Chip Booth]

Tke878: #yes I'm an Idahoan, in Hailey. #We should find some time to get together some day. #I occasionally travel and am always trying to find teachers whever I go, got a suggestion for a good teacher in Boise? #

Thanks for all the encouraging posts regarding Weber. #I do plan to visit the factory and see what's going on there. #But don't worry Joe, I have a trip to Intermountain Guitar and Banjo scheduled so I can get my hands on the Gibsons (and everything else) they have there.

[fpaxton]

Big Joe,

You're absolutely right! I'm very thankful that a man and musician of his stature would be willing to sit down in front me and try to teach me something. He has the patience
of a saint.

Frank Paxton

[straight-a]

Based upon my playing several Webers and Gibsons, I would go with the Gibson since you are looking primarily at bluegrass.

[PCypert]

I'm usually a non Gibson man myself...just because I don't just play bluegrass. But they do have some mojo to them for people who are bred to play bluegrass. I've heard some great high end mandos sound like crap in a seasoned bluegrass boy's hands and a Gibson A9 sound incredible with the same guy. I like to have a little more versatility, but if that's the way you're going get a A9 or F9 and you'll be set. Spend the extra money getting an Old Wave oval or something else just in case. Or you could throw both out and get a Phoenix. Now there's a great chop!
Paul

[dfrady]

Why do you think that he has to play a gibson since is primarily going to play bluegrass ?? There are Many bluegrass artists that play bluegrass that doesn't play a gibson. That's a problem i think a lot of people have, at least where i live, they think if it's not a gibson it's junk and i don't think that people should limit themselves like that, at least that's my opinion.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[PCypert]

I'm not saying it has to be a Gibson but he only asked about the choice between these two specific companies. Generalizing on a whole Gibson has more of a bluegrass tone and Weber has more of an all around tone. If he asked for others I would happily point out some fine mandos from small builders.
Paul

[Mandolin Guy]

Speeling check. Please note. I have played these. I don't have these. Thank You

[straight-a]

I'm not saying "thou shalt play bluegrass on a Gibson". I'm just going by question of comparing Gibson to Weber as far as bluegrass is concerned. Webers are fine mandolins but Gibsons have a little more cutting power as a rule to compete with banjos and dreadnaughts.

[Wando]

fpaxton,

You get to take lessons from Herschel Sizemore? #Holy smoke, that is terrific! #He is a hero of mine. #I love the DVD he did with Alan Bibey, and the day I learned "Rebecca" was and will be my best mando day.

Congrats and, if you like, tell Mr. Sizemore that Wando says "Hi".

[Dan Cole]

About instructors in Idaho, its Becky Smith. http://www.smithfowler.org/music/index.htm
Cheers,
Dan

You won't often here me bragg on a Weber. There has only been one come through here in the last few years I REALLY should of kept & it was a custom Fern. But I just traded for a Blonde Bitteroot with the maple upgrade....this is a great sounding & looking mando. Yea, I miss the radius fretboard & extra width, but if your in the market for a under $2000 American F give one of these a test drive..... An F9 would sure look butt ugly setting next to this mando.

[JimW]

But Dale, it's all about T-O-N-E. Now, while there are many mandolins that look prettier than the F9, very few in it's price range, +-$250 to $300 can touch it, for bluegrass that is.

Now, Dale, your penance is to write 500 times, "The Gibson F9, while it may not have fretboard markers and lack some in the looks department, is a fine Bluegrass mandolin with great tone." Then say 3 Hail Bill's.

Jim http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Jim, this is truely a comparison that should be done blindfolded.... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Do I want this one
F9 (http://cgi.aol.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3718652295&category=10179&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWA%3AIT&rd=1)

Or this one.....

[JimW]

The F9 really doesn't photograph well unless you have great lighting. Man, I'd be throwing that digital camera out the window if I was that guy. YUCK.

Jim

[Mandolin Guy]

Hi there, If i mite say. I have a weber. I like it. I have played Collings, Gibson, Weber. The neck on the Gibson was to big for my hand. The collings was to much money. I like the weber. My friend has a gibson and she likes it. So i think what ever you like you should buy. ( if you can afford it ). I wouldn't down anybody instrument. If that's what they like so be it.

[Jaded]

I think in some sense these kinds of questions are somewhat pointless. Which one is better mostly depends on what you are looking for in a mandolin.

To me...and it's a given that individual instruments vary... The Webers are more consistent in tone and fit and finish. They are beautiful and interesting looking instruments with good tone. If someone gave me one, I'd promptly sell it and buy something else. While I think they are high quality, they don't have the tone *I* want. Every one I've heard or played *to me* is too bright and mellow for bluegrass.

My experience with Gibson has been that consistency varies a lot in terms of tone and finish. I like about one out of every ten I play. I bought an F5G. I love the tone. It has a flaw in the binding on the scroll. The tailpiece hooks are already breaking, one of the tuner buttons had a chip (that mighta happened at the store), the nut has a place where it looks like they made a mistake cutting the string slots, one of the tuning posts is too loose. The finish is pretty good. Overall I'm very pleased with the mandolin, but I find those flaws and the lack of binding on the back kinda lacking in a mandolin in this price range. However, I'd have a hard time ever parting with this mandolin. I love playing it. I picked it up, not intending to buy it and just fell in love with the sound and how it felt in my hands.

I understand your dilemma. I was going to blindly order something on the internet, because I'd played every mandolin in every store in the area and hadn't find one I liked. I really think they only way you're going to get what *you* really want is to go out and play a lot of mandolins.

[jbrwky]

Well, I have a Flatiron F5 Artist signed by the man hisself, Bruce, that was made in Montana in 91. I also have a Flatiron F5 Artist made by Gibson in Nashville, signed by Danny Roberts (long story) in 03. One has tone bars, the other has X-bracing. One has a bolt-on neck, and one has a dove tail. How's that for apples to apples? I love them both. They are different. This is all prelude to my comment that you should play and play various instruments until you find the one that sounds AND feels best in your hand. The necks on my two instruments are different in shape for example but only slightly. But it is enough to feel and affects the way they play. I get used to playing either after awhile but switching back and forth requires adjustment on my part. So find one that feels best to you. I will say what I said before, that in my experience with Charlie and Danny, that I have never had better service or concern for the customer, by any company, for any product of any kind, period. These guys are world class. So play a lot, find the one you fall in love with, and when you have the one you love, none our opinions will matter a hill of beans to you. If you want more info you can email me.

[Mandolin Dude]

Hi there, If i mite say. I have a weber. I like it. I have played Collings, Gibson, Weber. The neck on the Gibson was to big for my hand. The collings was to much money. I like the weber. My friend has a gibson and she likes it. So i think what ever you like you should buy. ( if you can afford it ). I wouldn't down anybody instrument. If that's what they like so be it.
Yeah but what about your strap ol' MG?http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[fpaxton]

Wando, thanks and I'll tell Herschel you said hey...

Frank

[f5joe]

I heard a fella playing a new Weber at a major local store in Raleigh recently. I was drawn to it. Great set up and new tone. My concern, however, is that the top was EXTREMELY thin. Experience tells me that a thin top is good new and after a few years literally dies. Just my experience.

[pickinNgrinnin]

f5joe-

I doubt Bruce Weber has significantly changed the specs on his carved top Mandolins in recent years. Weber's seem to be pretty consistent from my experience. What leads you to believe the tops are thinner on the newer models? Inquiring minds want to know http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Talon]

chipbooth:
#Presently have gibson and another. Dont know about service of them, because its been so long since a new one has been bought. The gibson we have was gotten in the 50's, prices were quite reasonable then. Have played most major brands, and a few small makers. I would suggest widening your search, to more than two instrument makers. Even within each brand, and each model, there can be large tonal and quality differences. As far as reputations, I've never heard anything said negatively about Weber. I do know of two stores in my area, that refuse to carry gibson products, but I wont go into that. I also have been reading alot in this forum, and have seen some disturbing posts (to me) from someone from one of the companies in question. You could research posts, and consider whether or not they sway you, in wanting to deal with this company or not(you can search posts by member name). Also consider whether you want tone bars or x-bracing. The x-braced seem much better and louder out of the box, from what I've played, but the tone bars seem to season better in time. After they are both seasoned, I personally feel there is a difference in tone, but it is probably a personal taste thing. I like tone bars myself, but also have an x-braced one that is very nice. Good luck in the search, and remember, The Hunt Can Be Just As Good As The Kill.

Oh yeah, there are alot of good A style mandolins, that sound every bit as good as F styles. Just a thought.

[f5joe]

pickinNgrinnin: "What leads you to believe the tops are thinner on the newer models?"

Nothing. I was just stating that this particular instrument has a very thin top.

[Kelly_guy]

Hmmm...A great thread for me to read through, since I'm probably going to buy a new mandolin in the next few weeks. I have a hold on a Weber Bitteroot with maple upgrade, at the local acoustic music store. I love the way the thing sounds, but they also don't have very many instruments for me to compare.

I'm not planning on spending anywhere near as much as $5k, but I figured on spending $1800 to $2500. I'd be playing a lot of bluegrass at first, but I also hope to be playing some jazz mandolin within a few years. So I don't have my heart sent on a Gibson, not by any means.

Another local store has several Rigels and Breedloves to try out. I don't think any of the stores have Gibsons. That F9 Gibson sounded tempting, but when I looked at the pictures....yuck! A flat black mandolin? No thanks.

I don't even have my heart set on an F-style. I'm completely convinced that a good A style with f holes sounds just as good as any F-style mandolin. How could it not? The scroll doesn't add any sound!

Anyway, Spruce Tree has an A style Weber with X bracing, an F style with X bracing (don't recall the model) and the Bitteroot maple with tone bar bracing. The difference in playing a "chop" is immediately apparent. I think I need to go back and play all of them again, and really concentrate on how the mandolin sounds across all the strings, playing a solo. After all, the chop isn't a good way to judge a a mando.

[Big Joe]

Hey Kelly_Guy...
I think you should buy what you like, but please, the F9 does not have a flat back. It is a carved back just the same as our most expensive models. The difference from the F9 to the Fern is merely cosmetics and finish. The bodies are the same. That is why they have that Gibson sound. Just wanted to correct that 'flat back' notion.

[JimW]

I think he's referring to color, he said flat BLACK I think Big Joe. At any rate, Kelly_Guy, the F9 isn't flat backed or a Flat Black color. They really don't photograph well and I think that effected the pictures you are referring to. I'll post a couple pictures of my F9 with decent lighting for you to see.

First, the back:

[JimW]

Kelly_Guy, here's the front. Now while the F9 won't win any beauty contests, in my opinion, the tone is to die for. The thing that really impresses me is just how loose and played in it feels. I think it's a very good contender in it's price range and worthy of an obligatory test drive from anyone looking for a mandolin in this price range.

Jim

[Joe F]

I think this (http://cgi.aol.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3718652295&category=10179&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWA%3AIT&rd=1) is the flat black F9 that Kelly_guy was referring to. #It was previously discussed in another thread.

[GTison]

jim that's the best pc. of maple on the back of an f9 I've ever seen usually they are quite plain. or at least the 15 to 25 Ive seen.

yep.......

[JimW]

Bowfinger, of the F9's that I've looked at and played, you're right, most have plainer maple on the backs. Although I've seen a few with nicely figured maple, I should say that I don't think this is standard on the F9 series.

I picked this one up used a couple months back and so far I've really been impressed with it's playability and tone. But, I should also add, I'm a big Gibson and Bluegrass fan and the tone the Gibsons produce just happens to be the tone I prefer. Getting back to the figuring on the back of my F9, I really don't know. I like to think in the beginning it was going to be a Master Model but some small flaw degraded it to F9 status. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif You know, hide glue, red spruce top, etc etc.. I think this is just far fetched dreaming on my part.

Anyway, I don't really remember when the F9 series hit the market for this might've been one of the first and a slightly better grade of maple was used, but again, this is just speculation. This particular F9 was born on March 27, 2002, and was the 3rd one made that day.

Jim Watts

[Kelly_guy]

Yes, Joe F, that's exactly the flat black color I was referring to. OK, so that's just one color that's available. My mistake!

JimW, that's absolutely a gorgeous mandolin! I love that maple back. I'll check around Madison to see if anybody carries Gibson F9's, or any mandolins. Does anybody know of a good shop in Chicago? I could drive down there to test some mandolins.

I really loved the boomy chop of the maple-backed Weber Bitteroot, and at $2200 or so, it's right in my price range. If it turns out to play well up and down the range, then I'll probably buy that one.

[PCypert]

Kelly guy,
I would snap up that mapel backed bitterroot dale has at 1800 if you liked it. That's a good deal and Dale is a straight shooter. I'm actually considering it so maybe you shouldn't. Trust me when I say that you can trust dealing with him even though you don't have the luxury of playing the instrument in person. He'll make things real easy on you.
Paul

[Coy Wylie]

Kelly guy,

I've got a Bitterroot that is very much like the one Dale is advertising. In fact, several of us here on the cafe have them and love them.

[mandodude]

Does anybody know of a good shop in Chicago? I could drive down there to test some mandolins.
Save your gas, my friend! For as big a city as Chicago is, it's pretty much a "vast wasteland" with regard to shops with available mandos of note to try... then again, in its defense, Chi-town's never been known as one of the "Capitals of Mando-dom!" Now, if'n you're lookin' for a blues axe, say, an old ES-335 or some such, then c'mon down!

Seriously, if you're lookin' to take a li'l drive to try out some mandos, you'd be better off heading over to Elderly in Lansing, Michigan.

...you might wanna think about swingin' through Chicago for lunch and some deep dish pizza, though!

;-)

[mandoman15]

for that kind of money i'd say purchase a gibson f-9. It's my favorite one but it's really your chouice.

[Kelly_guy]

I ended up buying a Weber Absaroka. I got it for well under $2k and I just love the sound. I figure paying the extra for a Gibson F-9 or a Weber Bitteroot is paying for an expensive strap hanger. I don't play anywhere near well enough to be playing an expensive F-style mandolin anyway. When I can play better someday, maybe I'll consider getting a fancy scroll mando to reward my many hours of practice! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Kelly

[John Flynn]

I am not a Gibson or a Weber fan. Nothing against them, they are just not my thing. However, apropos of this discussion, I saw a local bluegrass band tonight that had a friend of mine on mando. Man, his Weber Big Sky sounded great! They are a big band with six players, using only two mikes in a very acoustically challenged room. That mando cut through the din with some very clear, sweet tone. If I wanted an F, that one would definitely be a consideration.

[Chip Booth]

And the winner is...

http://www.jupiterstudio.com/music/Images/Mando%2001.jpg

... a '99 Gibson F5L Fern. #I played about 15 different mandos (not a ton, but as many F's as I could get a hold of) and there was no comparison for me. #I was looking for a real bluegrass boomer with a lot of chop and cut, but a smooth, mellow solo tone, and this was exactly the sound. #As I played it and kept hearing the sounds come out of it that I love on records.

Here's a few things I discovered in my search:

- Don't assume "The Gibson" on the headstock makes a mando sound good. #I played several varnished master models and signature models that were just dogs. #The worst mando I heard out of everything I tried was a Sam bush model. #I can't believe they let that thing out of the factory. #I expect that comparing new ones to more broken in used models is part of the problem, as I did not hear a single new instrument with much in the way of boom.

- I played quite a few Weber instruments, both A and F models. #The construction and woods on the Webers were just beautiful, far superior to the Gibsons I played (and the one I bought), even compared to Gibsons 5 times the cost. #

- I played several Weber built Flatirons, and they had the same general tone as the Webers I played. #Compared to the Gibsons they have a reedy, bright tone without nearly as much chop and bottom end. #It is an absolutely beautiful sound, and I was torn between one particular Weber and the Fern I bought, but in the end the Gibson had more of that woody, chunky thing I was looking for. #If I can have only one mandolin that's the tone I want, but in the end I view the two companies as making very different products and my next goal will be to own that great Weber sound as well.

Thanks to all who posted and gave me some very useful advice.

Chip

[chipotle]

Beautiful instrument and thanks for posting the results, I have been reading this with much interest.:)

[hotpick]

If it's between Gibson and Weber, it depends. Resale wise Gibson will probably win. Quality and sound wise Weber wins hands down. If you're really into the sound, nothing beats Collings.