Eastman Mando Review

[dasspunk]

I went to Gryphon (http://gryphonstrings.com) today. They got in a few more Eastmans and I wanted to take a peek. Here is my take on these instruments...

The MD805 (F hole) is a great sounding mando. It is the best A style in the store by far. It beat the pants off of the Weber#Absaroka, Gibson A-9 and Gibson#A-5L (Bozeman). It has great thick, deep chunk. The kind that you can feel in your chest. Great volume as well. This is a bluegrass mando!

The MD805 (Oval hole) is also a great sounding mando. Great tone, loud, nice chunk. It's an oval hole and joined at the 12th fret like the old Gibson As. Really nice classic oval hole tone.

I was very interested in how the Eastman Fs would sound. Unfortunately, I was very disappointed. The MD815 has no tone or volume to speak of at all. It's also very poorly finished. The scroll carving is terrible and the finishing is very average.

Unfortunately, none of the Easmans have radiused fretboards, which is a deal breaker for me. I can't go back to flat ever... I hope they start offering this on some of them. I would have been very tempted to pick up the 805F had it been radiused.

That's it and as always, please remember, your milage may vary...

The original post on Eastman mandos has turned into a discussion of ethics and patriotism... so I've created this new topic to give a bit of info on these mandos. If you don't care for foreign mandos, feel free to post your opinion elsewhere or even better, keep it to yourself.

[prairiewind]

dass,

Thanks for the input. Your contribution is most welcome, and it may help some folks decide on which mandos to look at. I imagine Eastman Strings instruments will be like many others... you've got to play each one to find out which is right for you.

[Evan Skopp]

Thanks for the review of the Eastmans, dasspunk. This is what I was looking for when I started the other thread.

Cheers,

- Evan

[John Flynn]

I agree about the A oval. I played one and thought it sounded great. Too bad about the F's. BTW, the marketing guy from Eastman was on a thread a while ago and said they are looking into to radiusing the fretboards on some of the later production models. I think they have the potential to sell a lot of mandos, including maybe one to me, but I am pretty dissappointed in the ramp-up of thier marketing and distribution so far. I am also wondering if the MK oval might not be a better deal.

[John Ely]

Thank you for the un-biased review and one actually based on playing and hearing the instrument.

[Lane Pryce]

Ditto Lp

[peterbc]

I just got to play one yesterday. I'm not sure the model number, but it was an A style with bound F holes, blonde in color, serial number #28. It was a good mandolin, sounded better than the Gibson F9 and the Weber Absorka next to it. (I'm not trying to get into another one of those big ol' debates, just comparing it with instruments in the same price range that I played) It sounded good but needed some beating in to get rid of the new mandolin and new string sound. I was very impressed with how well built it was too, no slop, good frets, etc. Much much better than other pac rims. If the other mandolins are as good as that, they're doing a fine job.

One thing that I found a little curious was that it didn't say made in china, it had an American city inside (probably where the company is based out of?), probably because of the stigma attached to made in China.

Peter

[atetone]

Peterbc, where did you play that mandolin? Which store? I might be in the Seattle area in the next few weeks and wouldn't mind seeing one. What are the names of the dealers in Seattle that have decent mandos?
I don't get to see many real live mandolins in stores so if I make it down that way I want see every decent mandolin in town.
I have heard of Dusty Strings. Any more?

[neal]

Good post, Dasspunk. Yes, there is animosity toward jap/chinese/korean around here. Those mandolins sure do look nice, glad to hear a review.

""One thing that I found a little curious was that it didn't say made in china, it had an American city inside (probably where the company is based out of?), probably because of the stigma attached to made in China.""


Hmmm.. I think it should have at least a made in China sticker on the back of the headstock. Not having a label like that is like pulling the wool over the consumers eyes.

[peterbc]

Atetone,
It was at Dusty Strings. Another good one is the Folk Store. It's smaller, but they normally have a few nice mandolins.

As for the no 'Made in China' sticker, it is a little odd... I guess it's just to prevent people from thinking it's inferior just because of where it's made. I didn't see a sticker on the back of the headstock, but I don't think there would be one (just like you wouldn't see some sticker on the back of a Gibson or a Weber). My czech mando doesn't say where it's made either (though I think it might be the only one of it's make, so that might not be a fair comparison).

Peter

[John Flynn]

One thing I found interesting at the store where I tried an Eastman: They said the Eastmans arrived at the store without tuners, bridge, tailpiece or strings. All that had to be added at the store and it was the store's option what hardware to add. I wonder if the fact that what is essentially the "final manufacturing step" is done here is a way around the foriegn labeling thing. Just a thought.

[peterbc]

Hmmm, could be. I've heard that that's semi-common with some fiddles? Not sure if it's their fiddles or some other companies, but I remember seeing a bunch of fiddles in the white when I was getting a bow rehaired, they said they were pretty good chinese made ones but that they had to finish/set them up. I didn't ask about the tuners or bridge, but the bridge was different than any other I'd seen. Ebony adjustable bridge, one foot, and the compensation was a straight diagonal instead of stepped like I've always seen them. The intonation seemed fine, though I didn't really listen too closely to know how good it really is.

Peter

[jom]

One thought to keep in mind is that Eastman is just beginning in the mando market. They may have sent them over without assembly/setup just to get them out quickly (although I have no idea, just suggesting that there are other possibilities). I have heard that they more recent instruments are even better than the first, suggesting that they are still learning and fine-tuning.

They may still be trying to figure out their identity, mandolin-wise.

Not to hard to see where they got the company name. The founder was a gentleman from the far east...hence "Eastman" strings.....

Webpage link (http://www.eastmanstrings.com/eastmanguitars/reviews/reviews.html)

JF: As I have learned, Eastman Guitars is part of a much larger company, Eastman Strings. Could you give me some history and background on the parent company?

SF: I think this is the best part! Qian Ni founded Eastman Strings in 1992. Qian began studying the flute at the age of 14, when he was accepted to the Central Conservatory of Music in Beijing, China. In 1988, his abilities earned him a scholarship to attend Boston University, where he graduated with a Masters Degree in Music.

Shortly before graduation, Qian met a person in Boston who had purchased some violins from China and sold them in the United States for a pretty decent profit. Qian was saving money for business school and sent his father roughly $500 to purchase some violins for him to sell. The rest is history. Qian passed up business school and parlayed his initial sales into more purchases with the help of his father in China. Within 2 years, Qian and his father started a workshop in Beijing, with the hiring of a very talented luthier.

Today, our workshop is the largest in China. Eastman Strings employs 650 people, hand carving violins, violas, cellos, basses, bows, guitars, and mandolins, as well as making cases. Our customers include the top violin shops in the United States, as well as school music dealers who sell and rent our instruments.

Our Beijing workshop resembles those of the pre-WWII German violinmakers. These luthiers hired apprentices who hand carved components of the violins that were then assembled and sold throughout Europe and the rest of the world. Violin making centers sprung up in cities such as Mittenwald and Bucharest producing affordable hand made instruments that are highly valued today.

During WWII, production stopped and after the war it re-started with one key difference. The workshops were nearly fully automated with CNC routing machines and varnish spray rooms taking the place of individual hand graduation and hand-applied varnishes. Eastman Strings, however, is a throwback to the traditional pre-WWII method of handmade violin making.

Roughly 80% of our total sales today are generated from the production of our Beijing workshop. The remainder of our sales come from instruments made by our suppliers in Germany and Romania. These European instruments are brought in to Maryland “white.” (Ed note: unvarnished) We remove the tops, re-graduate the plates, replace the bass bars, and varnish them in Maryland.Our instruments are sold in the United States, Canada, Europe, and Japan.

[peterbc]

This mandolin I played has a Maryland label inside, does that mean that it's a German or Romanian instrument and not a Chinese one? The clerk at Dusty Strings told me it was Chinese.

Peter

Peter, I feel sure it's the later.....Chinese mfg.

[Jonathan Reinhardt]

aha - apprentices!
thanks, Dale.
noble attempt (and good review) dasspunk, but it is, after all, the same discussion.
I have played many instruments, foreign and domestic in my lifetime. (Started my aquisition syndrome with a Sear's Silvertone after my friend dropped my great aunt's gift of a Brazillian classical [back in the dark ages] #and it became a pile of splinters. ) Grateful for them all. The journey is more important than the tools. Please don't be hasty or judgmental, all of you.
And although I swore to myself I would retire on this particular issue, I am yet here again to say I have seen little to no bashing, only questions. advice, and discussion from experienced/concerned players/sellers/builders debating a subject.
The more info we have concerning this company and their mandolins, the better.
-----
rasa

[neal]

"The more info we have concerning this company and their mandolins, the better"


can I get an amen on that brothers and sisters?

[Lane Pryce]

How bout an Amen and a Witness. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif Lp

[levin4now]

This IS related - please read on:

I worked for a large greenhouse/floral distributor in Southern Ontario for awhile. We would get large shipments of "tropical plants" in 10" pots from Florida - a whole tractor trailer load. Well, sometimes a couple dozen of those plants would be loaded immediately back on a truck that was heading right back into the states. We were required BY LAW to place a "GROWN IN CANADA" sticker on each plant, even though it had spent only a few hours in Canada. Technically it had grown in Canada I guess, if only for a few hours.

Maybe this is a stretch, but is that a clause for them leaving the Made in China sticker off? If they did some 'constructive' work to the mando after it arrived in the US?

(We always found it laughable as we fought through the snow early on December mornings, only to be putting "Grown in Canada" stickers on tropical plants...) http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[neal]

Truly, I don't think that by any stroke of God's immagination(the "big" stroke) that the Eastman company will be trying, overtly, or covertly, to lure potential buyers into thinking that these mandolins were made in America. Even, who is it, Tacoma? puts on the label made in Korea, setup in America, or something like that. Sorry to be so vague. I believe that the dealer network for Eastman, being good and honest businesses(you know who you are) wouldn't go along with that.


Or I'm naive. (spelled backwards is evian)

[Martin Jonas]

I don't know what the current law is, but my 1989 Washburn has no mention of the country of manufacture (Korea, as it happens), or any other indication of a non-American origin. Instead there is some line on long tradition and hand-crafting that could fool the naive into thinking it's a handmade American mandolin. My mother's recent Kentucky, on the other hand, clearly says "Made In China".

Not that it matters much to me (I'm German, anyway, not American, and I really like the Washburn); I'd be most interested to try out an Eastman A-style if they ever make it to Europe at a decent price.

Martin

[Evan Skopp]

Yesterday I had my first experience actually playing a mandoin. It was at Dusty Strings in Seattle. The very helpful salesman took me fist through the entry level and then mid-level Mid-Missouris, then through an entry level Weber and finally to the next step-up-Weber. All of these were Celtic-style, flat-top, flat-back mandolins (excuse me if I'm using wrong terminology). The last Weber I played sounded the nicest of the four -- nice volume with balanced tone, though I felt maybe the mahogany gave it too much warmth. At this point, we were at a $1,250 retail price. There happened to be an Eastman A-style sitting on the counter. Same retail price.

The Eastman had a carved maple back and sides -- very figured with a natual finish. When I picked up the Eastman and played the same few chords, I have to say, it was significantly louded with a brighter tone. I'm not sure if brighter is good -- maybe for ensemble playing, but it was way louder -- and prettier.

I didn't make a purchase because I was late to a meeting (I spoke to the Seattle AES Chapter last night, about guitar pickups). But I have to say, to my newbie ear, the Eastman was clearly louder than the more simply made, less ornate American counterparts.

Just my $.02.

Most of us would not consider Mid Mo's mid level. Comparing carved top mandos to flat tops is comparing apples & oranges...they are two different animals.

[Evan Skopp]

Understood they're two different animals. The thing that makes them worth comparing is the price point.

And when I referred to the Mid Mo as mid-level, I was referring to the particular instrument I played vis-a-vis the range of Mid-Missouri brand instruments, not within the entire realm of mandolins.

I may the least experienced one here; but I heard what I heard.

[jom]

How you feel about what you heard is similar to my experience with an Eastman instrument.

"The thing that makes them worth comparing is the price point."

I beg to differ, was the Eastman an oval or F hole?

[Evan Skopp]

Good point. The Eastman had F-holes and the others had oval sound holes. So I was clearly not comparing apples to apples in terms of construction.

However, as a rank-mando-newbie, I don't even know about such tone subtlties as the affect of sound holes, or celtic vs. bluegrass, or whatnot. All I know is for around the same price, I seem to be getting more volume and a prettier instrument with the Eastman.

Evan, if you want a fair comparison. Play the Eastman & a Weber Absoroka......That's apples & apples.... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Comparisons at the same price point must be valid. #Otherwise every discussion on this board about f-styles below $2K wouldn't include the mandatory post "for the same price you can get an A....", etc.

[John Flynn]

Whether a comparison is apples and apples or apples and oranges is strictly in the eye of the buyer. If the distinction between carved top and flat top doesn't make a difference to the buyer, in that one instance, it doesn't make a difference, period. I hate it when car salesman play that game of saying that you can't really compare two cars you are trying choose between, because the two are in "different classes" or because of some engineering distintion I don't care about. I am afriad musical instrument dealers are prone to the same thing. The customer decides what is relevant and what is not and that is the way it should be.

Case in point, my just-acquired Parsons flat top beats the pants off a Ratliff RA-4 archtop oval I almost bought recently, in terms of both tone and volume. The Ratliff was more than three times the price, BTW. I think there is a valid comparison there.

And heck, you can compare apples and oranges. #The are both fruit (common factors) you can eat the skin of one, not the other (differences). #That's why you are comparing to find what's the same and what's different. #

Sorry, end of rant...

[John Ely]

I am interested to see how the Eastman mandos work out. It is my understanding that Eastman makes some very nice fiddles for beginners and up through the intermediate class of fiddles. (I think fiddlers make us look like amateurs in terms of instrument snobbishness. Apparently, no recently (meaning within the last 150 years) made fiddle is worthy of notice, and neither is a fiddle not made in Italy, France, or, perhaps, Germany. I exaggerate - but not much.) My point is Eastman may have the wherewithal and inclination to make a good instrument. I hope that turns out to be true.

[mcmando]

On thing I never understood about mandolin players is the tendency to look down on flat top mandos. #Yes, they're generally less expensive than carved tops, but does a carved top in and of itself make for a "better" instrument? #There are flat tops out there that beat a lot carved tops out in term of volume and tone, particularly at the lower price end of the carved spectrum. The price may be justified by the additional labor invloved in producing the carved top, but I would think players would select by tone and volume rather than labor involved in production.

[peterbc]

The flattops have a different tone, which I don't think is as suitable for bluegrass. They have a better ring, but lack the chop and the bite that a good bluegrass mandolin has. I don't think carved tops are better, but they're better at what they do.

Evan, did you try the Weber Absorka (carved top) or Gibson A9? If so, what'd you think compared with the Eastman?

Peter

So you guys think it's fair to compare a flat top to a carved top based strictly on price point?...... & to compare a flat top oval hole to a carved top F hole based strictly on price point?.....hmmmm

Interesting concept...I'm not buying it though.

[dasspunk]

I was wondering when this thread would be hijacked... 4 days of mostly relevant posts might be a new Cafe record!

Congratulations all...

Dale - you are comparing them just in the nature of your comment. #You've evaluated the differences in construction, style. #

At a given price point you'd expect a flat instrument to be much better in selection of woods, fit and finish, etc. than you would a carved top but you are comparing. #Things don't have to be the same to be compared - if they were the same there would be nothing to compare.

You know what...I'm gonna leave this entire subject to you guys. I've had enough....actually more than enough.

[thistle3585]

Comparing instruments on price alone, at least at the beginning of the process, is very legitimate. Think about it. If you've played guitar for years and decide to move to a mandolin and have no experience with them, then your going to decide on a budget and go pick what sounds good to you. You don't know what a mando should sound like. I didn't when I bought my first one. Most likely you will compare tone to the instruments you are most familiar with, your guitar, and decide within a price point based on that. Also, if not familiar with mandolins, you wont know the opinion that an import is an inferior instrument. There are plenty of other good instruments that are imports, why not a mando. This thread has produced a number of people who link the name Eastman with a quality violin. They're formulating an opinion based on the COMPANY, not where the mando comes from. Kind of like some peoples opinion that you can't go wrong buying (insert american made mando here) because they have a good reputation.

[Evan Skopp]

Evan, did you try the Weber Absorka (carved top) or Gibson A9? #If so, what'd you think compared with the Eastman?
I did not try the carved top Weber, Peter. Perhaps because they didn't have one (I can't recall) or perhaps because at $1,250 for the Weber flat top, I had met or exceeded my budget. Compared to the Eastman, the Weber was more mellow and warm with less volume and "cut" (I don't know if that's a mandolin word).

There was a Gibson A-9 there (at Seattle's Dusty Strings) and I played it briefly. Honestly, it didn't leave me with a strong opinion one way or another. I own a Gibson J45 flat top guitar and it's a fine instrument. But the mandolin didn't grab me.

I'll make my final decision in the next week or so.

Thanks to everyone for helping guide a mando-newbie with his first purchase.

The various features result in difference tonal/projection/volume/sustain characteristics. #The mandolin questions (http://www.folkofthewood.com/page2617.htm) at the Folk of the Wood site (no financial interest) gives you a good start on pros and cons of the "apples and oranges".