Developing My Ear

[jongolin]

I've been playing too long to not be better at this. I know I'm too dependent on tabs which leads to it taking FOREVER (-1day) to memorize anything at all. What I just started doing is playing along with "Shady Grove" by Grisman/Garcia. I used to try a figure out a song or a lick and gave up in frustration, what I'm doing with the "Shady Grove" is just playing along with it and trying to notice when--by accident or otherwise--that I seem to hit the right notes. This seems to have helped a bit but there's got to be some better ways to attain a golden ear. I particularly interest in a couple of things:
1) People who USED to be just this side of tone deaf and moved on to great skill at translating what they hear to the notes to be played and the steps you took to do so. 2) And from anyone who is a "natural"/ "perfect/relative pitch"/ "has a knack for it" (I think you get the idea of what I'm talking about it no matter what you might call it) my exact question is this: "When you hear a note and immediately go to it, HOW DO YOU KNOW?" You savants (I didn't say idiot!) might have to slow time down to observe how it is you know but if you could notice what processes you run through and relay them back I, and many others I think, would be appreciative.
I figured I'd attack the problem, er--what do they call that nowadays? Oh yea, the "issue" from a couple of angles to expedite my edu-macation.

[John Flynn]

Just my two cents, no expert here, and BTW, I think I only have moderate/average natural talent in this area. What has really helped me over the last year is learning from instructors who teach tunes by ear/sight and not by notation or tab. So rather than teach abstract theory or exercises (not that there's anything wrong with that) they say, "Here's a tune I want you to learn." The instructor does a run through of the whole tune so I can record them. Then they play the first lick, then I copy them. Repeat as necessary. Then onto the second lick, etc. We get to where I can play the whole tune with the instructor, slowly. By the time I get home, I generally no longer remember the new tune, but when I play the recording, my fingers sync with my ears and go in the right places. Over the week, I get memorized and up to speed. At the next lesson, I play the whole tune at speed. Usually, there are a couple mistakes I have made in learning the tune, a wrong note here, a bad timing there, etc. After that, I've pretty much got it.

What I have found after a year of this is that the whole process gets easier, quicker and more accurate with practice - AND - here's the thing: It has started to get easier to learn on my own from recordings of tunes that the instructor has not demonstrated. So it's not just "monkey-see, monkey do," there is some real capability improvement going on in terms of "ear/hand coordination." I am sure some people have more talent than others at this. I am also sure anyone gets better at it with the right kind of instruction and practice. For me, no book, CD or video can substitute for a good instructor.

[Billy Mack]

You will become better over time and practice. I can go back and listen to a recording of a break or lick that I learned a while back from a CD, and now I notice notes that are wrong, but at the time I thought I was playing them correcty. It may also help to get an instruction booklet/CD with tunes that you are familiar with the melody. Try and pick them out on your own and then go back to the book and see how it is really played. Learn the scales as you will find a lot of the notes in the key you are playing. Your ear will be able to recognize phrases, licks, intervals, that you are already familiar with on the fretboard. The more tunes you learn, your musical vocabulary will expand and be translated from ear to fretboard. Learn scale sequences - repeating patterns of 2 - 4 notes that progress through the scale. Learn the chord arpeggios. Learn doublestops. These all will also help in recognizing parts of a new tune. It is all a never ending process for me.

[Bowzette]

I am doing what Mando Johnny is doing with a friend that has played a fiddle forever and plays by ear. I record the tune phrase by phrase, she will play a phrase and i will repeat it. These are old fiddle tunes and are structured, most of them, to be learned easily this way-that's why some of them have been around hundreds of years! Lots of repetition of phrases within the tune. On a good day i have adverage talents and seem to be able to learn this way. when i have a tune down through this method, I have it better than when I've conquered it through rote memorization. I am learning some tunes crossed tuned to AEAE by tuning the E and A strings down one note and using a capo on the second fret. When i do this i have no idea as to the notes i'm playing, and don't want to-just relying on sound, really playing by ear and it works!

[JGWoods]

Frequent use of a tuner to keep your instrument on pitch really helps. People with perfect pitch never have a problem. People with good realtive pitch are helped by always hearing the right pitch- i.e. A at 440hz etc.

When you are always in tune- and hopefully what you are listening to is also in tune to 440- you will have an easier time getting the right notes, and always be ready to play along, find the key etc.

it helped me, I hope it helps you
best
gw

[mandocrucian]

You guys are making this more complicated than it really should be.

Bottom line: <span style='color:red'>Sing what you play, play what you sing.</span>

I encounter folks all the time who are able to play the tune on their instrument, but when I ask them to hum/diddle it vocally, they can't do it. What does this indicate? #That they have the tune stored in muscle memory but they really don't hear it. #Hand/digital habits overiding the ear eventually leads to a chronic case of digital diarrhea!

True you can acquire the ear&gt;hand wiring through osmosis over a long period of time. But you can speed the process by humming/singing the notes while you play them on your instrument. #The effort of simultaneously singing (i.e. really hearing the pitches while you fingers play the notes creates a neurological association between the two acts. It's#Pavlov's dog..... #The mind hears a "C" note and the hand begins to automically respond with the appropriate finger fretting the note.

If you are reading the tune off paper (notation or tab) and aren't really hearing the tune, the finger motion not is being triggered by the sound of the note, but by a visual symbol on the page. You've all seen players that can play anything on paper that you put on the music stand before them, but are unable to play even the simplest of tunes by ear. #It's all primarily an eye&gt;hand connection.

When you practice your scales - hum along. When you learn a new tune, vocalize it. (You'll find that you get it into your head a whole lot faster as well) The repetition of doing this sort of stuff is what burns in the connections in your brain. #(But, you probably don't want to vocalize everything, all of the time because you might find it hard not to vocalize when you play publicly.)

Niles Hokkanen

(My beginning mandolin method book/cd(s) hopefully will be published and available sometime this summer. The learning process system I've developed, which I've dubbed Mandocrucian Shin-Cho-Shu-Do ("Mandocrucian Way of Mind Hand and Hearing") integratively works the the hands, the ear, and the intellect rather than the usual approach of concentrating primarily on the physical hand motion to the exclusion of the other elements.)

[Chris Baird]

I too was frustrated will trying to learn songs by ear(and often still am). What has helped me is to disregard my pride and take things down to a level that worked for me. I can play some fairly intricate tunes that I've learned by tab or notation but when learning by ear I had to start with "mary had a little lamb" and "twinkle twinkle little star" etc.. It took about a month of lots of practice just to get those very simple songs down by ear but now things are progressing for me much faster, you might even say exponentially. As Niles put it so well, I really have to know and be able to hear the tones in my head before I can play them. I can't sing so well but I can whistle and that helps.

[Bill James]

Couple of observations here:

1. Niles is spot on as usual. When I play a tune at a higher speed (relative of course) I find I make fewer mistakes if I play the notes in my head as I'm playing. Definately something to that.

2. Sometimes I use tab and sometimes I listen to a fiddle tune until it is stuck in my head, then I make up my own version. The more times you do it, the easier it gets. As I'm working on it, I stop ocasionally and play the scale and arpeggio for the key that the tune is in. The cool thing about it is that you end up with your own version instead of someone else's.

[Bowzette]

Niles what is your advice for a few of us who really can NOT sing, whislte or humm the correct notes and usually not even close to the correct notes.Lots of folks say they can't sing, but the reality is that generally hitting somewhere near the correct notes. If there is a key for me it is not A-G. I'm not disagreeing with your point-if you can sing it you can play it, folks tell me that often. It would take me much longer to learn to carry a tune, and that would take voice lessons, than to play the mandolin!

the brotherhood of Barney Fife.

[Steph]

Bowzette - go to one of Niles boot camps at Front Royal - not only will you be singing major and minor scales by the end of it - you'll have a really good time as well. Don't be put off by the beginner label (if you were), when it comes to vocalising what you are trying to play - most people are beginners. The other startling thing I learned was that after Niles wrist stretching exercises I could pull triplets in places I never thought possible!

[Amanda Lynn]

I can play almost anything by ear on my mandolin, although I can't put my finger on exactly why or how (no pun intended). A couple of theories that may help you: Maybe it's 'cause I started playing back in the Stone Age (1970s) when we didn't have easy access to electronic tuning "cheating" devices, so I had to tune all 8 strings with an "A" tuning fork. It was a Eureka moment when I learned to hear if a string was tuned sharp or flat. Tuning your own instrument teaches you focused listening, instead of half-listening.
When you're trained in that mode of focused listening, it dramatically improves the way you hear others play. It's almost like a trance state--in which you don't let yourself get distracted or self-conscious.
You might also try sitting down at a piano or other musical keyboard, and learning scales, and listen to the sound of the whole-step, half-step pattern. I know I sometimes subconsciously visualize the whole steps and half-steps of the scales I know on the piano, when I play my mandolin. Going along with this would be to know all the notes on the mandolin. I think this is really important. It also enables you to play up and down the fretboard, too, when you don't want that "open string" sound. However, even if you know what key you're supposed to be in, a lot of songs have "accidentals' where a sharp is not played, for example. So, again, LISTEN!

[GTison]

I've had this problem with teaching my banjo player to sing a part. He starts asking me if there is a theory behinde what I'm telling him. I say yes but I don't really know what it is. but he can not match pitch very well. but he is very patient and works at it until he can play it on the banjo then goes home and works it out. it's just madening to me, because if someone says sing this not I don't have any problem at all. I really don't have an answer for this but I SURE WOULD LIKE TO KNOW ONE. He needs help with his ear training somehow. It's amazing how he can play the banjo as good as he does. But ever since i tried to teach him a part to a simple song and he could'nt, I have noticed that he doesn't play the true melody alot of times. sometimes it's hard to notice that on a banjo anyway in a scruggs/stanley style.

[John Flynn]

I've had this problem with teaching my banjo player to sing a part.
A wise old saying:

"Never try to teach a pig to sing.

It won't work, and it will irritate the pig."

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[furashgf]

Jeff Hatfield sells two odd books - "Learn How to Play by Ear" and "Learn How to Play Mandolin by Ear". They seem to be kind of like what everyone is talking about. I have them but haven't tried them yet. He's VERY big into sing/play, but states very clearly that YOU DON'T HAVE TO SING WELL for it to work.

[G'DAE]

Niles: What if, when I play, I concentrate so much, I get mixed up and lose my place if I start thinking of words, then trying to actually sing them too. I find that I need my guitar buddy to lead, while I follow, hearing without trying to remember words. Works great as long as I have the guitar to follow. I'm kinda useless by myself. ( I can't sing anyway.)

[Michael H Geimer]

YOU DON'T HAVE TO SING WELL

Yep. Don't get hung up on what you or anyone else might think of your vocal qualities. Vocalization is really about holding the idea of a note inside your head, and then reproducing that note with your vocal chords by sheer act of will ... and later through instruments using your will - together with lots of muscle memory training - to direct the fingers towards the pitch you want.

By singing instrumental lines that you want to play, you begin the process of teaching your brain how to have melodic *intentions* first that your fingers are then responible for finding and playing.

The techinque has nothing at all to do with having a 'good singing voice'.

[G'DAE]

Don't forget concentrating on remembering words makes me lose my concentration on the Mando.
However, the idea is interesting, worth the try http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[Michael H Geimer]

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif #I don't understand why you'd need to remember the words ... just worry about the notes, as though you were humming the tune, or whistling it ... sans lyrics.

There's a weird split that goes on my brain when I'm singing a tune. One half is thinking about the notes and trying to form a melody, while the other is speaking the words and trying to tell a story ... once all that going on ... the mando playing goes all to heck. LOL!

Like all new and challenging techinques, it's best to start slowly with simple melodies and work up from there.

- Benig

[MrSrubas]

I took a few bass lessons once, I asked the instructer a question right along those lines. He told me to associate a color or other neumonic device with a note (i.e. g-green, a-apple) and think of it every time you play it, hear it, sing it, ect,... The other thing I am just discovering, is that I borrowed a fiddle from my kid brother, and not having frets really has helped my ear! My wife tells me up and down that I was born tone deaf, and I am going to die tone deaf, it's that kind of support that I think is really helping, well, sort of?.....

[jongolin]

That Hatfield book is on my list!

[G'DAE]

Yes, those Hatfield books do sound interesting. I also saw something on the Murphy Method, also teaches by ear. Anyone know how well it works?