mic or pickup?

[kgimbal]

In my short career as a performing mandolin player, I've really struggled to be heard at gigs. I've used SM 57's and now I have a Carvin CM 90E condenser mic. Last night I saw Mary and Mars here in Chico and Sharon Gilchrist had an awesome sound. She plays a Gilchrist (no relation) and has an LR Baggs pickup/bridge, plugged into a small Trace Elliot guitar amp. I'm thinking this is the route I may take. There's just no question of being heard and thus being able to play easier, lighter, smoother. What do you think? For purists, it's probably taboo to use a pickup, and believe me, I don't relish the idea of drilling out the end pin hole of my Randy Wood. But I'm of the belief that the end result will be worth it...

Kim

[PCypert]

Hey,
There's lots of post about this in the equipment section. I for one am for pick ups, but prefer if they are factory installed while being built. It would be a shame to mess with your current mando. If you don't plan on selling it I'd say go for it. But that's me and I'm in no way a purist. There's a non invasive pick up called a Schetler or something that everyone rave's about. But it's about 400 bucks. I like not having to worry with something on top of the mando so I prefer an installed pick up. Just plug in and plug into a DI box of some sort and play to your hearts content. I play in church or very small home settings though. I like the comfort of never having to bang away on the mando. I can set the action low and focus on technique. But you may be different. Ducking out now while the purist rail into me.
Paul

[peterbc]

Theres also a Fishman that replaces the bridge but you don't have to drill wholes. Theres a jack that attaches kinda like a chin rest on a fiddle so theres no permanant change. I think elderly has then fro $150 or so? I don't have one but I am considering one.

[garyblanchard]

I'm not a purist either, but I went all-acoustic with mics because I switch instruments so many times and I haven't heard a banjo that I like with a pick-up. (I know, ya'll ain't heard a banjo you like. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif ) It just got to be easier to keep everything unplugged.

I put an after-market pickup in an acoustice guitar once, but I imagine it could be hard in a mandolin. But the main thing is to find what works for you. I'd say give it a try. You can always unplug and mic it if you don't like it.

[Tom C]

I just got the schertler. As far as playing with a pickup, it really lets me hit the strings softer, more like I play at home alone than trying to play hard and keep up. Sure you should just be able to turn the mic up but it just seems better.
If nobody else plugs in, then I don't.

[John Flynn]

The mike is always your best acoustic sound. The only advantage to pickups is that they have a higher resistance to feedback and side noise.

I can't recommend the Fishman. I had one for 10 years and didn't realize how bad it was until I got my Rigel with its built in spot pizeo. By comparison, the Fishman is "thumpy" "quacky" and uneven across the strings. But as good as the Rigel pickup is, a mike is still better. I have used a combination of the pizeo and a mike in high feedback situations with some success.

[Bradley]

I will second the previous post...

I tried endlessly to find a P/U that would work equivalent to a Mike, and after many wasted $$'s I found out that there isnt (for my taste) a pick-up that will ever compare to the condenser microphone.I currently use the AKF Pro37r and love it!!

The closest I ever came was when I borrowed a Rigel A model with a factory pickup, with a little EQ work these can sound really good.I played in a store this week a new Breedlove A model that had a good Pickup as well.
Maybe the "Factory installed during production" is the key??

[kgimbal]

Well, I spoke to the folks at LR Baggs today on the phone. They told me that if I want one of their mando pickups, I should take off my bridge/saddle and send it to them. They will install the little Crystal/Piezo pickups in the saddle and epoxy them in and send the whole assembly back to me. The jack would attach to the side of the mando like a chin-rest on a fiddle. Sounds pretty good to me except that I'd always be dealing with this sort of appendage thing. Whether I'd be playing at a gig or just at home or practicing with the band, I'd have to deal with this extra thing attached to the mando. Still, I think that's a better option than drilling out the end hole... It'll cost around $230.00 to have this done....I'm thinking Monday I'll be sending off my bridge and playing my old A-O for a couple of weeks.... By the way, sorry for posting in the wrong department here.... Kim

[mandroid]

Schertler is THE way to go for pickups, but, mics allow dynamic control, according to how nearby you stand.
schertler and a plug in mic wireless will allow on stage dancing , if thats your thing.

I have a built in piezo bridge in a Lebeda, it runs the wire thru the bridge base and thru the top to endbutton jack. no clamp on "carpenter's jack"
good for stomp tuners' signal.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[WireBoy]

I too have struggled with the mic / pickup choice. #I have a PickUp the World #27 shimmed under the treble foot of my bridge. #the wire goes to a carpenter jack clamped just behind the bottom point on my F mando. and then on to my Baggs Para Acoustic DI.

#But it is a bit thumpy and maybe a little quacky. #i haven't been using it lately. #I am now using a Shure Sm58. #I just lean in to it (about 2-4 inches away) for the pickin' and lean back about 6-8 inches for the choppin'.

#This gives a much truer acoustic sound without the thumpin and quackin. #I too play in a church ensemble (2 other guitars , piano and stand up bass). #Our moderate volume doesn't create feedback issues. #The only draw back with this is I'm rooted to that one spot when i play. #no moving around. #However the plus side is you can quickly step back or turn away to check tune-age (or melody!) with out being obnoxious or trying to fumble with a knob/footpedal/soundman's eye.

[futrconslr]

Ya'll are a bunch of Heathens! lol http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[kgimbal]

As I mentioned in my first post above, I play a Randy Wood. I spoke to him yesterday and he really recommends the Pick-Up the World product. This is a pickup system with a thin piece of film slid under the bridge and the carpenter jack attached to the side of the mando. An obvious advantage here is that permanent alterations are not required. I spoke also to Dave at PUTW. After a half hour on the phone with him, I decided to order a custom built pick-up for my RW, and a belt-clip pre amp. With this I will either just plug into the PA board, or continue to spend money and get some type of nice acoustic amp. I should have my new setup for next weekend's gigs...

[THP]

I use the Schertler (great sound) and a stage mic (usually a c-1000), with a 40-60 blend.
Use the stage mic for solos and such.
Works great that way..best of both worlds for sure.
Anthony
www.hickoryproject.com

[Dan Adams]

Pick-ups are great to ease the picking woes when on stage. You can relax, and still get volumn and tone. But.. Nothing like the interaction of band members, either stepping forward to their own mic, or moving into the community mic for a break, or for vocals. The microphones allow the audience to be involved with the band, and forces the band to be more aware of the dynamics of live performance. Pick-ups don't provide this visual and audio interaction.

When's my break? Dan

[dixiecreek]

don't they have pickups you can just stick on, without actually having to get them installed on to your mando??

[Hubert Angaiak]

First of all to have an acoustic sound you can't beat the mics. I've had the fishman and it began to bow in and my mando has a curved fingerboard. The fishman come flat and you have to shave it to fit your fingerboard. I considered PUTW with my fancy mando, but settled for the The Autolycus pickup from www.fiddlesoure.com. It is violin pickup and I didn't want to drill holes or modify my mandolin and wanted something I can remove in a fly. It worked, but I move a lot when I play and changes sound when the piezo moves. I found the wedge and ordered it: http://kingbrown.netfirms.com/index.html This model just slips in the space between your bridge and saddle. I haven't taken it for a test drive, but I think it will work as well as any pickup but I like the option of keeping my bridge and being able to remove it if I want to. I use an external guitar preamp and then to a wireless unit. Plugging in a whole different world and you will find if you have one piece of equipment you may need to get this other piece in looking for that acoustic mando sound when you plug in. You may want to get mando thats build for plugging in. Good luck.

[mrbook]

Since a good pickup is compared to the sound of a microphone, I stick with the microphone. It is less of an issue now that our band uses one microphone, and I also switch instruments too often to be tied to cords. However, I do own a early McIntyre pickup, which sticks on with putty and has a carpenter jack that clamps to the edge. I hardly ever use it, but once last year I was part of a 16-piece band in a show. Being electric musicians, they assumed I was ready to plug in, so I put it on, plugged in, and was ready for my 8-bar solo. I haven't used it since, but needed it then.

I like the non-invasive types because I don't use them often, but also because the technology is always changing. The hot new pickup I see in one catalog is replaced by a new favorite six months later. You wil also proably need a preamp, so there are a lot of choices to be made - too many for me.

[Michael Wolf]

In the moment I play a Barcus Berry Mando-Humbucker in combination with a AKG C411(conatct-condensor-mice)and go through a AER Compact60. This sounds surprisingly good together as the mice compensates the zingie sound of the humbucker on the high string and gives some sound of the mandobody, while the humbucker gives a big warm, jazzy tone. I like a good electric sound more than a piezo and no holes are needed.
The disadvantage is, that the mando is covered with wires and tapes and looks like a patient in hospital.
I will get a Schertler this week and see how it compares. I think it's a clean solution though it is expensive, but you can use it on several instruments.

All the Best
Michael

[Michael Wolf]

Want to add, that in my opinion Headway from England makes one of the best Mando-Pickups. It has to be installed in the bridge and it is very similar to the Highlander. It's a coax-cable. I had the chance to play it on music fair frankfurt, installed in a archtop octavemando. It was extrem warm sounding and captured very much of the body's sound. And it was absolutely feedback-resistend. I did'nt hear something like this before though I tried many different solutions. Only wanted to suggest this, because I think this pickup is not that popular to this moment but indeed much better than most I've heared. You can visit their site and read some reviews and the options they offer.

Michael

[Ron Landis]

A friend of mine uses a Fishman pickup. It's a good way to make $2000 mando sound like a $200 mando. Several years ago I tried a lavalier mic (like they use on TV) and am pretty happy with it. Audio Technica makes one for about $120. It's small enough to fit into the bottom round part of the F-hole and I hold it in place by wrapping some soft foam rubber around the cord at the base of the mic and squezzing it in the f-hole. No drilling nessasary. A much warmer tone than any pickup I've tried.

[jugband]

It's small enough to fit into the bottom round part of the F-hole and I hold it in place by wrapping some soft foam rubber around the cord at the base of the mic and squezzing it in the f-hole. #No drilling nessasary. #A much warmer tone than any pickup I've tried.
Are you saying that you actually have the business end of the mic INSIDE the mandolin?

[labraid]

I'm curious no one has mentioned the latest from McIntyre, the McIntyre feather. Sticks on (adhesive backed) under the bridge (more to the bass side) inside the mando (not an easy thing to do when it's already put together, but have done it before no problems). Enlarge the endpin hole, solder the wires, ploof, tighten the jack and it's all invisible. Get yer external preamp and yer ready to go. I love the sound, just like a mic in my opinion. (The same cannot be said about the older McIntyres, and Carl McIntyre pretty much admits this). Hardly weighs anything either--won't drag down your soundboard vibes. Anyone else tried the Feather??

[BenE]

Quote (Scratchmo @ April 28 2004, 22:17)
It's small enough to fit into the bottom round part of the F-hole and I hold it in place by wrapping some soft foam rubber around the cord at the base of the mic and squezzing it in the f-hole. No drilling nessasary. A much warmer tone than any pickup I've tried.

Are you saying that you actually have the business end of the mic INSIDE the mandolin?

Yep....That is what he does. I have seen him play a couple of times and it sounds very good! I'd love to know the model number of that AT mic.

[Ron Landis]

Ben, The model number of that mic is Audio-Technica Pro7A. It comes with a holder that can clip onto a soundhole, but I like putting it right inside the box with the foam rubber around the cord. A little better sound, and if you happen to step on the cord (like I do frequently) the mic just pulls out of the f-hole with no damage to the cord, mic, or mando. It uses a single AA battery.
BTW Ben, sorry you guys coudn't do that wedding gig up here in Eureka. We're having a party May 7-9 in our new campground and there should be a lot of good music happening. Also, you might want to call Nate at Chelsea's about a Bluegrass Festival booking. I know he's lookin.

[joshro78]

If you are really interested in what a pick-up sounds like, just make one. I made my piezo pick up from radio shack for $5. It just sticks between the bridge and tailpiece. Simple.

[jefflester]

Ben, The model number of that mic is Audio-Technica Pro7A. #It comes with a holder that can clip onto a soundhole, but I like putting it right inside the box with the foam rubber around the cord.
The Pro7A has a pretty signficant bass rolloff compared to the AT831b. But then you don't need a whole lot of bass response on a mandolin now, do you? Other than that and a slight difference in the polar pattern, these two models seem very similar (831b using battey rather than phantom). But I wonder if the inherent roll-off of the Pro7A maybe helps with feedback?

I too am trying to answer the age-old question of how to amplify a mandolin and make it sound as natural as possible while avoiding feedback and not making changes to the instrument. One of these A-T mics sounds like a possibility.

-Jeff

[mandroid]

RE piezos: Oh those, I downloaded a plan to slice one of those up in strips, add wires, and laminate it into a bridge. RS sells the piezo as a speaker, [apply current and it vibrates, vibrate it and it sends current}
Musix.com has a nickle sized piezo disc that makes a nice DIY pickup for internal or stickon temporary installation.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[Dave Caulkins]

I guess I sit on the fence on this topic... Both my mandolins have pickups: my Rigel came with on, which I love, and I installed one in my Flatiron years ago (no, I wouldn't do it again if I had the chance). My problem with the Fishman in the Flatiron is related to both the tone (I can work with it, as I played electric guitar for years... ie effects like chorus and tube preamps) and also the damn cheap-a** bridge which I loathe and detest. I also had the endpin drilled out, professionally mind you (it looks good, but...). This did not affect the acoustic tone at all, thankfully...

I wouldn't do it again, but I'm stuck looking for a better option, one that will utilize the endpin jack. It's either that or the original bridge goes back on (you know, the one that doesn't want to fall flat?). Any suggestions? Should I send the original bridge away to Baggs as mentioned above and have a luthier (I know a good one) finish the job? Help!

Thanks,

Dave

[GMatt]

My Fishman pickup works fine. The only problem is it really hurts trying to fit it in a case after you install it because it has a huge metal plug hanging off the tailpiece.

[ira]

mcintyre feather through a baggs gigpro into the pa and i love it.just gotta watch that i don't thump the bridge too much unless i want a back beat:;):

[MartinD_GibsonA]

A pickup is OK as long as it sounds just like a mic! # ;-)

Don Smith

[mando andy]

Hey joshro 78, how did you make your pickup? We are dying to know!!!!!!!

Andy

[Dave Caulkins]

Howdy Again,

Still no suggestions for the Flatiron dilema? What is the best route, I know you guys have opinions! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Later,

Dave