Octave mando vs. Bouzouki for Celtic Music

[timacn]

Please forgive the ignorance, but
I was wondering what the major differences are between a bouzouki and an octave mandolin in terms of sound, tuning, etc.

Is one preferred for Celtic music? If so, why?

Thanks

[steve V. johnson]

Hi,

The first thing to know about the modern octave mandolin/bouzouki world is that the terms are used very generally and that there are wild variations on everything. It's kinda the wild, wild west, with everybody experimenting with instruments, instrument designs and sizes, tunings and uses.

Having said that... <GG>

The first thing that seems to distinguish the Big Mandolins of the family is the scale length. Understand that these are generalizations in which someone will immediate point out variations. <GGG> Mandolas go up to about 18" in scale and are tuned to CGDA, like violas. Octave mandolins' lengths go from 20" to 23" (or so) and are tuned as mandolins. Bouzoukis usually have scales from 23" up to 26" and can be tuned as a mandolin or with variations. Mandocellos are from 24" up, and are tuned CGDA.

The original bouzoukis from the easterd Mediterranean area are three-course (six string) or four-course, longer and skinnier, tuned differently from the mandolin world we know and sound more rattle-y. <GG>

People prefer all manner of these things for Celtic (Irish, Scottish, Welsh, British, Brettony, eastern Canadian, Galician) musics.
Sizes are generally chosen for ease of play, matching the players hands and reach, and the sounds they want to make. Tunings are chosen for any reason at all... <GGG> Common tunings are GDAE, GDAD, ADAD, ADAE... and on and on. Some folks use capos to play in different keys, some learn to play in all keys without capos, some do both.... Some use 'half-capos' to stop only a couple of strings.

In many Celtic musics, the OMs/zouks sort of timbrally fit above guitars, with less bass than the guitars, and below the fiddles (and pipes, flutes and whistles...), but some of the big ones (like Michael Holmes' with the band Dervish) play the role of bouzouki, guitar and bass all at once.

It's all over the place. Spend some time over in the CBOM section and check the archives for a real treasure trove of info on these things, and in the "Celtic, U.K., Nordic, Quebecois, European Folk" forum for more good stuff too.

There aren't many manufacturers making these things and many of the ones that are are PacRim companies and aren't really the best of the breed. That's another reason for all the variation, most of the best of these instruments come from indie luthiers
who can make them anyway they (or you) want, so folks exercise a lot of creativity in 'em.

I'm mad for playing these things, they're great, great fun.

I hope this helps!

stv

[danb]

Longer scale ones (usually called bouzoukis) sound a bit better in GDAD for chords, while shorter scale (normally GDAE) works better for melody.

Just an opinion

[Daniel Nestlerode]

In my experience, the difference between Irish bouzukis and octave mandolins is the octave strings in the lower tuned courses on the bouzouki. But after reading Steve's post I think he'e right about the scale lengths too.
I believe they are used in the same manner for Celtic music.
Persoanlly I prefer the OM. bouzoukis have always sounded a little thin to me. But that's just me.

Daniel

[Mandobar]

steve has the 411 on "big mandos". but each builder has his/her own take on these instruments. the sound is different from builder to builder. the only zouks i have played were sobells, and i can say without hesitation there is nothing thin sounding about them. in fact, they will rattle your teeth around in your mouth.

[otterly2k]

I'll agree with what's above...
and add that there is some tonal difference commonly associated with scale length. #Some would say that the longer scale (zouk) is likely to result in more sustain and a more "guitarish" tone...and that conversely, the shorter scale (OM) might tend to have a bit less sustain and have a bit punchier, "mandolinish" tone. #This might also be related to the fact that in order to get the same notes (GDAE, an octave below mandolin), the longer scale would use thinner strings and the shorter scale would use thicker.

Those tendencies noted, there is a lot of variation among individual instruments, given that this end of the mandofamily spectrum is not NEARLY as standardized (in size, shape, bracing, structure, woods, etc.) as the small mandolins are. #

Personally, I really like that it is not standardized, and really appreciate the unique voices available to these instruments, in combination with their players.

I prefer OM's, and mine are pretty short scale even in the OM range, b/c I have small hands and find the longer ones too hard to play the way I want to. I like to vary between melodic lines and rhythm/accompaniment chords, and these give me the flexibility to go back and forth. Someone with big hands, however, might be able to do the same on a longer scale OM or even a 'zouk.

[Fstpicker]

Am I safe in assuming that the OM's are tuned an octave lower than regular mandos?

Jeff

[Jim Yates]

I like the OMs for melody, although I tune these with the first string down to D (a backwards DADGAD, like standard tuning is a backwards EADGBE with the two treble strngs dropped off) It's good for the keys of D, G, and some modal stuff, but I use a capo (shame) for most other keys
I don't own a bouzouki, but did borrow one for a few months. I tuned it DGBD and used 5 string banjo shape chords. It sounded pretty good as a chording instrument.