Lousy Wood Buying Experience

[crawdad]

I wnt to a local sawmill yesterday which advertised tonewoods for builders. My aim was to get some spruce for a mandlin top. When I got there, he had one 5 foot board, spruce, which was 2" thick. I asked him to cut me two feet, resaw it and put a jointer edge on each side.

Well, as soon as he resawed the board, the whole thing warped badly. I did some thickness planing of the two pieces, and its still warped. He said "let it acclimate" a few days. I don't think its ever going to be true again. To top it off, the edges are pathetic. No way I can glue it up with any confidence. Its gonna take a ton of work to get this wood into shape, if I can even use it, and I basically feel like I wasted a day and my money geting something that is not even usable. He seemed like a nice enough guy and has built some instruments himself, but I got home an began to work with this stuff and it s a losing proposition.

No point, I'm just frustrated by a bad experience. I'm about ready to go the kit route and bypass this garbage.

[Luthier]

Crawdad, If you see anyway that it can be rescued and made usable, send it to me and I will machine what you need.

Don

[Spruce]

" I don't think its ever going to be true again."

Is it cupping?
Lay it on a wet towel concave side down, and it should flatten back out in a few hours...
When it does, hang it the air (or lean it against a wall) so that both faces of the board receive equal air circulation.
It should remain flat...

"To top it off, the edges are pathetic."

I would never trust a miller of tonewoods with joining my plates...
Hell, I wouldn't trust anyone with joining my plates... #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[crawdad]

Bruce--Thanks so much for the tip! I'm going to try it right now

Don--Thank you for your offer as well. Let me see what i can do here and I will get back with you!

[TNMANDO]

I've bought two sets of bookmatcked spruce from Old Standard Wood and have been very happy with the quality of each. Just a thought.

[cutbait2]

i might guess the resawing imbalanced stresses within the wood not seen when the plank was thicker. i don't think i'd spend any time messing with it. tree might have grown leaning or with a slight bend. regarding edges as said above a sawmill does not usually have the right tools for instrument grade glue joints. guys like Spruce seem to have very reasonable prices all things considered (like appropriate drying)

[Spruce]

"i don't think i'd spend any time messing with it."

I would....
I have 20 years old 2" thick, perfectly quartersawn Sitka boards here, that if you ripped them down the middle, might cup too...
Wood tends to do that, especially if you lay a freshly cut board down on your workbench, thus drying one side faster than the face laying face-down on the bench...

It's easy to remedy using the towel method...

[crawdad]

Spruce--the towels did the trick. Actually, iI left it on the towel a bit too long and it started to slightly cup THE OTHER WAY! So I gotta let it dry and see how much adjustment is needed. The towel thing definitely works.

[Spruce]

You can play that towel method like a musical instrument...

Dial it in until it's perfectly flat, then drill a hole in the wood away from the pattern and hang it with a coat hanger...

A wet lawn on a sunny day even works faster...

[crawdad]

A wet lawn on a sunny day even works faster...
Once I get it good and flat, and it all dries out, will it basically stay that way?

Also, how long should I wait before I glue these boards up--assuming I can perfect the light tight edges for the join?

Again, thanks for the tip. When it comes to wood, you know your stuff. Always a pleasure to read your comments and gain a bit of your vast knowledge!

[Spruce]

Crawdad....
If the wood is dry, it'll stay flat as long as you don't subject one face to a different set of conditions than the other face...
Like wetting one face and laying it on a table, etc.

As far as gluing goes, does the wood feel cold to the touch? #Then it needs more seasoning. #The wood should feel room temperature when touching it--that means it's close to dry.

If you want to hurry your drying time a bit on a piece of wood, or make sure your wood is dry, here (one more time) is a handy tip for creating a cheap and effective solar kiln, just in time for this Spring weather:

"An excellent way to artificially season wood is to use a black garbage bag.
This is especially useful for larger pieces of wood...say, a cello neck...
Put the wood inside of the bag and stick it in the sun. #Important! Seal the bag...
Let it sit for a few hours, then turn it inside out to evacuate the moisture. #The small volume of the bag will insure that the wood will not dry too quickly and crack, or case harden...
This method is great for a "final cure" on pieces of wood that you're not sure of how much moisture is still in them..."

I used this method on some one-piece Sitka mando tops recently, and it worked great. #No cupping, etc.

[crawdad]

Spruce--Again, thanks for the tips. That is great stuff to know. I'm thankful that I can converse with someone who knows more about wood than I will in my lifetime. The insights are invaluable!

[John Soper]

Spruce (or others)-

Some guitar makers (T*yl*r, Collings(?), & others) "cook" their tops- basically in an oven at 180-200 degrees F X 2 hours for a final cure... it's thought to improve the ability of the top to take extreme heat/humidity changes, and stated by some on other forums to improve the sound.

I have no experience with this, but is anybody doing this with mando tops?

[topcat]

A recently resawn 2 inch board is going to take a little time to stabilise. Doesn't matter how long it's been "dry". Even after gluing up it will still move as wood is carved away. Your wood shop will probably have quite different humidity than the sawmills stack. Let it sit for a month or 2 as it is before doing anything and as Spruce says hang it up so the air can get at all sides or stand it on it's ends leaning with space behind and in front.

Even after glue up, while you are working the wood if you leave it for a while with one side down on workbench or somewhere the air can't get at one side, a flat board doesn't take long before it starts to wobble a bit.

Baking wood in an oven for a short period doesn't do any harm. Don't do it when the top is almost finish graduated as it may kick a little and not return. It still can be glued on but because the tension forces are unequal around the board it's not going to do any favours for the initial tone of the instrument. Obviously it will settle down but depending how much it is warped it could take a few years!

Wood that is baked too long will destroy the surface cell structure. It's not going to affect strength or tone but it makes the visual grain lacklustre and particularly destroys and flame depth. Commercial kiln dried wood usually suffers the same fate.

Terry Cromer