Zero fret

[JeffS]

I've been reading John Troughton's book on the mandolin and I saw he builds his with a 0 fret just below the nut. I have heard of instruments that have these but was told they were rare. It made me curious why it was there in the first place. Do you have to fret it for what would normally be an open string?

[grsnovi]

On instruments with a zero fret, the scale length is from the zero fret to the bridge. The nut simply spaces the strings apart side to side. The logic goes that using a zero fret (which is typically higher than the rest) removes the depth of cut of the nut from the set up equation.

[Martin Jonas]

Zero frets have two great advantages: they make getting the cut of the nut right much less critical (the nut is in effect only there for the string spacing) and they achieve a greater uniformity of tone between open and fretted notes, as the fixed end point of the vibration mode is a smooth metal fret in all cases.

It seems that zero frets are rare in carved mandolins, although I'm not sure why. They are very common in European mandolin designs. My 1930s Portuguese-type and my mother's Italian bowlback both have it and I really like the way it evens out tone and sustain between open and fretted notes.

Martin

[Jim Garber]

There was a discussion about zero frets on the classical board. martinjonas has it right. The other interesting component that goes with the zero fret is the bridge design which is common on higher end vintage American and European bowlbacks. This consists of a bridge which is notched to separate the strings and a separate saddle which sits couched in the bridge. This allows the string height to be adjusted either by merely shaving down or adding to the saddle or having multip[le saddle to take care of climate changes. See photo.

[John Zimm]

I've got an Italian classical guitar with a zero fret, and I really like it. As mentioned above, it does provide a more consistent sound between fretted and open notes. I also like the way the action works. I would love to see the zero fret on a carved mandolin.

-John.

[mad dawg]

Is the zero fret typically of the same size fretwire as the rest of the frets?

[Jim Garber]

I would think that the fret gauge would be the same as the rest of the frets -- no need for it to be different.

Here's a short discussion on the zero fret (http://www.guitartips.addr.com/tip77.html).

Evidentally, used on the Selmer Maccaferri (http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Gryphon/NewInstGallery/JazzGuitar/Dupont/MD50/md50.html) guitars.

A lot more common in Europe than here in the US.

Jim

[Jeff_Stallard]

The zero fret on my Troubadour is taller than the regular frets. Of course, I dressed it to lower the action, so maybe it should have been the same size to begin with.

One thing I had to get used to was the slightly different hand position. The zero-fret pushes the start of the scale up about 1/8th inch, and until I got used to also shifting my hand up 1/8th inch, I was always fretting too low.

I think zero frets are a great idea, if only because you no longer have to mess with cutting the nut perfectly.

Why don't bluegrass mandolins use them? Is it simply because Monroe didn't have one, or is there a good reason?

[Martin Jonas]

The zero fret on my Troubadour is taller than the regular frets. #Of course, I dressed it to lower the action, so maybe it should have been the same size to begin with.

One thing I had to get used to was the slightly different hand position. #The zero-fret pushes the start of the scale up about 1/8th inch, and until I got used to also shifting my hand up 1/8th inch, I was always fretting too low.
The zero fret has been slightly higher than the other frets on any instrument I've seen them on, so I think that's how it's mean to be. On my Majestic, the zero fret is in direct contact with the nut, no exposed fretboard between them, so there is no change in hand position from a non-zero fret mandolin.

Martin