The first scroll

[F5G WIZ]

Was wonderin' on what instrument was the first scroll introduced. I know it was pre-F5. Any information?

[mandroid]

On Ferns, the green ones in the forest , when they sprout from the ground.
naturally http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif .. aka 'fiddleheads'...

I see below, spiral galaxy is the winner for oldest. [not a creationist]
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[F5G WIZ]

Ha HA good to hear from another insomniac! Thanks. Not quite what I was lookin for though.

[Greenmando]

Pretty sure it was the early Gibson F2's that set the standard for scrolls.

[danb]

Orville put them on instruments he hand-built, but they go back quite a bit further than that. Violin peghead scrolls for example.. from there you'd probably look back to greek architecture and beyond as inspiration

[sunburst]

I suspect "scrolls" on instruments predate the violin, and perhaps first showed up on lyres or something similar.(?)
This could be the inspiration for a pretty big research project...for someone of an accademic persuasion.

(Dan, I'm trying to remember my college art history. Did the Greeks use scrolls in archetecture, or did the Romans start that? I believe the scroll we see today is ionic.)

[Chris Baird]

The scroll shape is interesting. It seems to hit on a subconscience universal asthetic that can be seen in many cultures going way back. It is also a familiar shape in both the plant and animal kingdom. Many visual interpretations of fractal sets also have re-occuring scroll shapes, notably the Mandelbrot set. It seems to "strike a chord" with many people but in a rather mysterious or inexplicable way.

[grandmainger]

The first one?

http://www.discoveringfossils.co.uk/ammonite%20polished.jpg

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[stevem]

Even earlier... This one has a bit of a Monteleone shape to it...

[Chris Baird]

Here is an image produced as a result visualizing a fractal set.

[Jim Hilburn]

This is from the '73 book by Jullius Bellson called "The Gibson Story".
This is a mandolin built by Orville before the turn of the century and before there was a Gibson company.

[Jim Garber]

The scrolls that were on concert zithers were pretty close to the ones that Orville adapted. He even built one himself (not the one pictured).
http://www.hscincin.musin.de/G-Mitmachen/G-1-Aktion%20des%20Monats/Adventkalender/Tag-12/ZITHER.JPG

Jim

[F5G WIZ]

Wow! Hate to have to buy a set of strings for that! Wouldn't be much fun to tune up for a jam either. Not much room to clamp on the intellitouch.

[F5G WIZ]

I'm wondering if Mr. Gibson originally thought the scroll would have some effect on tone or if it was just cosmetic from the start.

[stevem]

Scroll envy has been around since at least the neolithic era...

[Paul Hostetter]

http://www.lutherie.net/fiddleheads.jpg

The graphic I've used on my business card and stationery since 1968 or so began with an image from a European music catalog dating to the 1880s:

http://www.lutherie.net/dali.harp.gtr.sm.jpg

The extra stuff was added later by Salvador Dali, which suited me just fine. It was from a folio called "A Suite of Erotic Prints!" But the scroll in this instrument, from Spain, predated Orville by a bit. You can surely tell what was original and what wasn't. The guitar was presented in that catalog on the stand.

[F5G WIZ]

Ya think Thile could play that?

[stevem]

Harpguitars.net dates this one at 1810... The scrolls aren't attached to the body though... Source for photo. (http://www.harpguitars.net/history/org/org-lyres.htm)

[stevem]

This one is dated 1813. Same site: source. (http://www.harpguitars.net/history/org/org-harp-lutes.htm)

[Eugene]

Scrolled heads on viols, citterns, violins, etc. are pretty old. Roger Blumberg's Thecipher.com (http://www.thecipher.com/) has a pretty impressive collection of medieval and renaissance iconography. I thought I could link to an easy page, but I think the images are buried and some not linked to the outside world. To start, try this (http://www.thecipher.com/cgi-bin/search/search.pl?Terms=iconography).

[Eugene]

...If you're wondering explicitly about lumping a scroll onto the soundbox of an archtop mandolin, that whole tradition is a knock off of Orville Gibson's bizarre sense of aesthetic.

[JEStanek]

Paul, I love that Dali!

Jamie

[sunburst]

...a knock off of Orville Gibson's bizarre sense of aesthetic.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif ...

[Bob Sayers]

In creating his "florentine" design, Orville certainly had a violin in mind. But the scrolls and pearl decoration are pure reflections of the art nouveau movement at the turn-of-the-20th century. Orville had a great all-around design sense. Of course, others at Gibson refined his designs, but Orville set the standard. Too bad he didn't live long enough to combine efforts with Lloyd Loar. Imagine the beautiful red, pumpkin, and blacktop F-5s that might have been produced in the 1920s! Instead, most Gibson mandolins remain some variation of Loar's "Cremona brown," while the quintessential "Gibson colors" find their modern expression on acoustic and electric guitars. Pretty ironic!

Bob

[F5G WIZ]

Great information guys, I was mainly wondering about the scroll on the sound box. Obviously it makes no difference in the tone of a mandolin, some may argue that point, seems like a lot of work for looks only. But it certainly sells well I think. Wonder if Monroe had played an "A" instead of an "F" his entire career if they would be as popular as they are now.