Buidling with only hand tools?

[Cragger]

Does anyone out there only use hand tools to build there instruments? #Is it possible? #I don't have a shop big enough for large power tools and was wondering what would be the minimal approach to building from scratch. #Also, what are the most comprehensive books on building mandolins from scratch? #Most specifically, an F5?

[Mando Medic]

Cragger, Great question! I know you can build a Stew Mac Kit without major power tools. I have a friend in Northeastern Oregon that has been building mandolins, acoustic guitars and flattop basses for years without power tools. His only power is for the light and the stereo. His name is Jerry Nolte.... Evergreen Mt. Instruments. I say you can! Ken Cartwright

[EdSherry]

Building a mando with nothing but hand tools clearly CAN be done. #Power tools save time (especially if you're gearing up to make multiple instruments), and lend precision that is hard to achieve with hand tools (e.g., a drill press).


Roger Siminoff's NEW book is the best one available. #(His older book is good, but the new one is better.)

http://www.amazon.com/-Ultima....ie=UTF8 (http://www.amazon.com/-Ultimate-Bluegrass/dp/0634062859/sr=8-1/qid=1156877886/ref=sr_1_1/104-4437624-4166320?ie=UTF8)

[Tom C]

I tried once. Not much of an effort. As soon as I had my outline of the top traced and started to cut it out, I realized I will never be able to cut it out being perpendicular to the bottom.

[sunburst]

There have been musical instruments longer than there have been power tools. Obviously, it can be done.

If you start with top and back sets, and pre cut ribs, it might not be too bad, or if you can farm out some of the jobs.

Ripping rib stock from the edge of a board with a hand rip saw can be done, but it's not as fast or easy as a band saw.
Cutting out the outline of the top, back, body blocks, neck, etc. can be done with a coping saw, but it's not as fast or easy as a band saw. Then there's thicknessing, jointing, planing etc. etc.

[Erk]

I built my first instrument from scratch using handtools and a small 8 1/2" bench top drill press in a 6' x 8' room. Ten years, a larger shop and many larger powertools later, the drill press is still the most useful power tool I own.

[David Keeley]

I think building an instrument with ONLY hand tools is the best way to learn. All you're working with is wood. Wood can be cut, shaped and changed with a simple blade (knife) and a saw.

Power tools add speed, but sometimes it takes longer to setup for a specific cut, when a hand tool can do what you need in about the same amount of time anyway.

Power tools are only good for redundancy. When you have to make 10 of the same thing.

Sharo hand tools are just as efective and most times better. IMHO.

[Chadmills]

It's a violin book, but an awful lot of the construction is the same as a carved mandolin, "The Art of Violin Making" by Johnson and Courtnall describes in meticulous detail the process of making a violin using hand tools only, including techniques for achieving accuracy.

[cooper4205]

a band saw and dremel wouldn't take up too much space

[Cragger]

I will probably buy the Siminoff book and the violin building book and start flipping through the pages. I was thinking of buying the billet for the soundboard and starting there. I love doing things that are meticulous and take time. I am an avid fly fisher and fly tier and can sit down and tie flies for hours. I think building a mandolin from scratch with hand tools would be very time consuming and take a lot of skill and patience. Sounds like a good challenge to me.

[sunburst]

I tend to prefer hand tools when they do as good a job, or a better job, than power tools. I probably use more hand tools than most other "pro" builders, and I enjoy using then, BUT, there is a lot of drudgery on the way to the part where skill is involved. That's where power tools make life much easier.

Your starting point has a lot to do with tool selection.
Starting with prepared wood skips a lot of steps that are definitely easier with power tools.
For example, I have a couple of stacks of split bolts of spruce from trees that I cut down. I started with a chain saw, and the next step will be a band saw, followed by the jointer, and on from there.
I could have, with a partner, learned to cut a large tree with an axe and a cross cut saw, and rip bolts with a pit saw, and it might have been fun, but life is too short for all that.

There's something to be said for doing a whole project with hand tools alone, and treating the experience as a rewarding challenge, but when you're building instruments regularly, you have to be pragmatic about tool selection and use the one that gets the job done with the least waste of time. I will, however, sacrifice some time in favor of chips instead of dust, and pleasant hand tool sounds instead of screaming power tool sounds. I'm doing this because I enjoy it, not to get rich, and if I enjoy the hand tool more than the power tool, but it takes 10 minutes longer, well then, I get to do the fun part for 10 more minutes!

[gypsy1]

My training with a classicial guitar builder was entirely by hand. We would start with quartered wood blocks split like firewood, rough and with alot of splinters. What you need to be able to do is keep your handtools sharp. Some of the basic tools you will need: a good ripsaw. a couple 'pullsaws' several good wood rasps, a good set of chisels, 1/4-3/4", a good set of carving tools, a couple hand planes, a coping saw, a couple good hand drills (bit and brace, etc.) and a solid work bench with a good vice. All types of building are centered around mastering your tools, power or otherwise. Power tools requier 'set-up' and quite often the accuracy of the power tool is directly related to the amount of money one has invested. So, if your doing 'one off' cuts with a power tool your set-up can be quite time consuming. Bending the sides is also a tecnique that a power tool can't do for you..I 'freeform' build many times simply because building forms for a 'one off' design takes too much time. For those interested I do give courses and instruction in 'old world' instrument building. Shoot me an email for more info.

[amowry]

I built my first three mandolins (two F5s) with no power tools, but I started with thicknessed sides and top and back wedges, so there was no resawing. The trickiest part was cutting out the scroll blocks and the pegheads with a coping saw, but it can be done.

[testore]

I made my first three violins with out turning on ANY power equipment. I was a student and it was forbidden for the first three. It sucked....never again.
Gary

[Yonkle]

I built 2 Stewmacs and 2 Siminoff, only power tool a "dremel" for the inlay. However..... now doing scratch, yes I am sure you can do it scratch with hand tools only but "oy vey" it would be a lot of work!
I thought kits were almost scratch since there is a lot of time involved using hand tools only, I used to tell people who asked "are these from scratch?" I would say "almost about 80% scratch" "all hand tools" But now doing it from scratch, I look back and the kit is really about 80% done! Whats left is all the fun stuff!
Would you concider a blowtorch for sidebending a "power tool"? JD (So if you don't cut down your own tree, is it still scratch?) Some say NO. But that would be like saying I baked a cake from scratch, but didn't grow the wheat to make the flour.
The general consencous I hear from "non builders" is (some) tend to think if a mandolin was built entirely with hand tools, it would be a better mandolin and worth more money to the player. Like it's more "real or "down to earth" or something. I can kinda understand the thought behind that thinking, but in reality I think for the most part power tools do a better job in a shorter time than most hand tools, (not all) most.
I think 1/4 way through shaping the plates most would throw in the towel and break out the electricity. jd

[gypsy1]

Hmmmm, interesting. The difference is the 'craft' vs. the machine. If you are carving arched plates you better know your power tools quite well, it's not as simple as turning on the electricity. You will need a series of templates, a way of securing the plate during the operation and the correct bits if you are using hand or stationary routers. Accuratly devising a set of templates is a task in it's self, they need to be 'dead on'. So now you have your templates and have secured your plate, let the routing begin. Routing finished...now you have a roughed out plate...oh, I have to finish it out by hand..maybe some sort of sander would help..Roughing out the plates by hand is much quicker then you think if you are using the right carving tools.
Most kit manufacturers are using industrial machinery, CNC (computer numerial controller) these run about $ 100,000 for an entry level of decent quality, x-y-z axis machine, Tooling costs average several thousand per cutter and in some cases you can purchase sanding heads for profiles as well. With cheap 3rd world labor and high tech machines instrument parts can hit the market at incredibly low prices.
Is this preserving the craft of Luthery?

[sunburst]

gypsy1, to continue in a philosophical direction, what we're talking about is wasting wood. In order to get top and back plates down to a thickness where carving, graduating and voicing can begin, the extra wood has to be wasted. (Same for any other wooden instrument parts.) Does the waste wood know or care whether it is wasted by a gouge-weilding human hand, a rotary cutter-weilding multi-thousand-dollar CNC machine, or a tooth-weilding beaver's jaw? Can the customer or player look at the finished instrument and tell how the waste wood was wasted? Does the instrument sound any different depending on what tool removed the waste wood? No. That wood is gone. It can have no affect on the sound.
So, the hand tool vs. power tool choice is a philosophical one. it comes down to how much money and/or time the builder want's to spend wasting wood, and which method/s he/she prefers.

[gypsy1]

John, So true, this could go on forever..I like what you have to say..how much does one want to invest and what are their goals..I think the kit is a rewarding experience for many people, it let's them touch feel and become part of something they love or care about..But getting back to Craggers orginial question about building with hand tools, the answer is yes and the rewards are a great experience.

[Yonkle]

I agree Gypsy: However I just got in from 3 hours of wood removal of my back plate for my #6 F5. Then a knot appeared by the lower point and along the knot a crack. I dug down to see if the crack would hopefully go away and it was all the way through. Thsi was my 2nd back for this mandolin, I messed up the first one, now this..... right now I wish I had one of those craving machines. Well on to back 3... as soon as I find a good piece of wood. Having trouble typing this because my gouge slipped off the maple and into my index finger, but thats OK, now my hands are bookmatched the bandaid matchs the bandaid on my other index finger from the night before. The gouge in my palm was just healing up and now another cut, seems its one after another.

[gypsy1]

JD, sorry to hear about that, the cuts and the plate crack. Been there done that. I would suggest finding a way of securing your plates while working on them if your not already. Then you can keep both hands behind the cutting edge of your tool, I typically palm the tool after roughing it out, then pull the tool across the wood rather then push it.

[PaulD]

JD: I hope there's no permanent damage to your finger. It's a good warning to other hand-tool users: while power tools can remove flesh and bone much more efficiently, you can still do serious nerve and tendon damage with sharp hand tools. Dull hand tools can be worse... much harder to control.

pd

[sunburst]

I would suggest finding a way of securing your plates while working on them if your not already.
A lot of us use a "cradle".
This one is made from scrap plywood, and a scrap of cheap panneling. The plate can go in with either side up, because the center is cut out (can't see that for the back that's in the cradle), and there are holes in the corners that I can put pins (nails) through, and either stop them against the edge of the bench, or fit them through holes in the bench. It holds a plate vey securely.

[PaulD]

In the GAL article a couple issues back Chris Burt illustrated resting the plate on a towel and using a wooden pin (dowel) in his bench or workboard to carve against. This allows you to freely move the plate around but you don't have to put a hand in harm's way.

pd