Octave Mandolin Questions

[Miragliuolo]

I have been playing guitar for 18 years and mandolin for 10 years. I can't explain it but playing the mandolin has been hurting my wrist and forearm for about two years now, so I haven't played in about 6 months. Playing the guitar doesn't seem to bother it too bad, but I really love playing the mandolin. I was thinking that an octave mandolin might be the answer. It has the mandolin sound with the low end close to that of the guitar. My budget will be about $1000 to $1200 (in the not too distant future). I don't know a whole lot about octaves. Any suggestions in my price range? I was looking at the Trinity College octave but I don't know how long I would be satisfied with it.

[EdSherry]

Sorry to hear about your pain playing mando. #I'd suggest that you check out the ergonomics of how you play (e.g, angle of hand to neck, angle of fingers to string) to see if you can't fix the problem.

If you decide to move to an OM, in the price range that you're contemplating, I would STRONGLY recommend the Petersen OMs. #A great improvement over the TCs (IMHO). #Elderly Instruments (in Lansing MI) and Gryphon
Stringed Instruments (in Palo Alto CA) sell them. (NFI.)

[Unseen122]

I second the Petersens, way better than the TCs. I got mine a couple days ago and it sounds quite good.

[Steve L]

I would definitely get some medical attention to see what's going on. Is it your fretting or picking hand giving you problems?

The Peterson octaves are nice, but I don't think they're in the same price range as the Trinity College stuff which is about $450. I think Petersons are more like a grand.

[otterly2k]

Avery...is that to tide you over until you get a Spira???
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Mike-- I've heard good things about the Petersens, though I haven't played one. The Weber Sages are sometimes available in that price range as well...and keep an eye on the classifieds... sometimes things turn up.

FWIW... if you want to try one out without making a huge investment, the TC OM's are really not bad and if you buy a used one, you'd get most of your $ back on resale if you should decide either to upgrade or that OM is not for you.

[EdSherry]

I fully agree with other posts that you should check out whether the problem is in the left hand or the right hand (f the latter, the problem won't be resolved by switching from mando to OM), and to see if something (e.g., changing hand placement) can't be done to fix the problem. #

Whether that is best achieved through "medical" advice or something else is an other question. (Several years ago, I got some very good input from a guitar-playing chiropractor friend. #In my experience, the "medical" community does not recognize chiropractic as "medicine.")

Steve L. is correct that the Petersens are significantly more expensive (on the order of $1k new) than the TCs (on the order of $450 new). #IMHO, they're worth the price difference assuming that you have the extra money to spend. #Given Miragliulio's stated price range ($1000 to $1200), I figured that was not an issue for HIM. #

Obviously, others who have more limited budgets can disagree. #I fully agree with earlier posts that a TC is a good way to "get your feet wet" to see if you really want an OM, since you can get a significant part of your money back should you decide to selll. #

Buying used (almost regardless of brand) is obviously worth looking into in that regard.

[Miragliuolo]

I appreciate the input folks. I was actually diagnosed with radial tunnel (left arm / fretting hand) I was using bad technique for so many years and tried to correct it in a short amount of time. I was doing that whole bent wrist thing with my fretting hand. It's funny that it never gave me problems until I forced myself to play with a straight wrist.I must of been working stuff that had never been used before. I really wish someone would have told me about proper hand position earlier on. I've had quite a bit of physical therapy and it is starting to get better. I think a fresh start on a new instrument would be great for me. Just take my time and concentrate on proper technique and slowly build up my hand strenth and all the other parts. I'm saving for an octave so it will be a few months before i'm ready to buy one. I'm just researching so i'll be ready when the time comes.

[Steve L]

I was curious if the double courses of the mando were causing the problem vs single courses on guitar. #I'd try to play an octave before you buy to see if it's just a different version of the same issue.

Ed's right about conventional medicine...it's better at some things than others. #I'd look into acupuncture and maybe some qi gung exercices or sotai before you go for surgery or cortisone injections if it comes to that.

Good luck.

[Miragliuolo]

I don't think it's the double courses I think it's more the string tension. If i'm not mistaken the string tension is a lot less on an octave mandolin. That's why I was thinking it might be a better match for me. I have played a few octaves but not for longer than 10 minutes at a time. I think it would take at least 2 weeks of playing an octave to see if it would work out for me, and I don't know anyone who has one, let alone one to lend for 2 weeks. So I will definately have to buy one and take the loss if it doesn't work out.I just have a good feeling that an octave would work out for me.

[Unseen122]

Avery...is that to tide you over until you get a Spira???
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Mike-- I've heard good things about the Petersens, though I haven't played one. #The Weber Sages are sometimes available in that price range as well...and keep an eye on the classifieds... sometimes things turn up. #

FWIW... if you want to try one out without making a huge investment, the TC OM's are really not bad and if you buy a used one, you'd get most of your $ back on resale if you should decide either to upgrade or that OM is not for you.
Maybe, I will have to get a Spira some day, but I didn't have the money to spend or the time to wait.

I like it a lot. Although, it is better for harmony playing rather than Chord strumming. Of course both can be done. It is pretty loud and chords carry really well. It is about the volume of a Dreadnought or Jumbo guitar depending on various factors. It sounds and plays really well, lots of sustain full mid and sweet upper registers the low is a bit muddy for my liking. I think that could be fixed with heavier strings as the low strings really project in ADAE tuning. Double stops on this szound fantastic. The tone is a bit on the bright side and is more Zouk like than Guitar like. For the next gathering I will definatly bring it.

Yeah, watch for Weber Sages as they will be in that price range and are pretty nice.

The TCs aren't bad, but they aren't that good either. They are fine for begginners and those who are giving it a try.

[otterly2k]

Mike-- slightly off the OM topic, but still in response to your posts...

re: your radial tunnel problem... another avenue to consider might include a chiropracter with a specialty in neurological issues. there aren't many of them, but my partner has managed to control carpal tunnel (pretty severe) with a combo of that, good ergonomics in her work area, some exercises, and a homeopathic ointment called Topricin. YMMV, of course... but it is good to have some options to try...

Avery... I'll look forward to meeting your Petersen some time. I'm really glad you're happy with it.

KE

[EdSherry]

Mike -- I'd be happy to loan you a TC OM for a while to see if you like it. #(If you live in the SF Bay Area, we could meet up; if not, I'd have to ship it to you, and I'd expect you to pay shipping both ways.)

NB: #By the time you pay shipping both ways, it might be less expensive to buy one and try it out, reselling it if it doesn't work out for you. #But it's your call.

If your problem is string tension, as you suggest, you might try a lighter-gauge string on your mando.

[Miragliuolo]

I appreciate the offer Ed, but I would feel akward doing the
long distance loan thing. Maybe if I lived up the street from you. I just moved to New Mexico from New Hampshire, so i'm not familiar with the local music stores. ( I doubt they would have any octaves) I am about 45 min. away from Folk Of The Wood. I bought a few mandolins from them online a few years ago. Horrible service!!! They are under new ownership now so they might be alright now. Of course there store hours are Mon.-Fri. 8-5. That's real convienient for the working man.
I was looking at the Petersen level 2 at Gryphon(online)$1100. On Petersens website he say he makes about 50 instruments a year. Hopefully I can find one when i'm ready to buy.(If I go with the Petersen) So many choices!!!

[4stringmania]

I just recently purchased a Moon OM (Jimmy Moon - made in Scotland) from The Acoustic Music from TAMCO in England http://www.theacousticmusicco.co.uk/, great service and I love the OM. It cost about $1100 including shipping so it's comparable to a Petersen. I tried a Petersen at Gryphon a while back and actually like the Moon better, a matter of personal taste as the Petersen's are also very well made. It arrived in California in less than a week after my order was placed. (Moon Guitars website: http://www.moonguitars.co.uk/)

[steve V. johnson]

Congrats on the Moon, Alan, and that is some -fast- service! Fair play to TAMCO!

But... since you're obsessed with four strings, what will you do with the other four?

<GG>

stv

[Unseen122]

Avery... I'll look forward to meeting your Petersen some time. #I'm really glad you're happy with it.

KE
I will let you know the next time I am in Philly.

[Kid Charlemagne]

Since we're recommending OMs for you, I thought I'd weigh in with a recommendation of a Flatiron if you can find one.

I bought a 1984 Flatiron not long ago, and I love the thing. It's got a punch like a guitar, and I can finally play in the register I want to try some guitar tunes in mandolin style.

I've been working on arranging Hip to be Square for the bass, mandolin, and octave, and I can't get to the other instruments because I keep fooling around with my octave.

If you need a hint of how they sound, Thile plays a Flatiron octave in Smoothie Song and most of the other OM-featuring tunes that Nickel Creek has done.

[Larry R]

Even though I've only been playing mandolin since last Christmas, I have discovered ways to alleviate nerve pain when holding certain chords. Am7 gave me a sharp pain just below the palm of my hand, until I slightly tilted my index finger so that part of the side was barring the strings. Immediately eliminated the nerve pain. Also, remember, there are no absolute rules regarding which fingers you use to hold a particular cord.