Deft as a finish?

[WoodyMcKenzie]

Has anyone tried Deft Clear Wood Finish on a mandolin? I was in the hardware store and picked up a can and according to the label it's the best thing since sliced bread-- a brushable lacquer that dries in a half hour, no sanding between coats, extremely clear and deep looking finish, etc. I imagine that it can't be that good or else it would have come up when I searched the archives...

Woody

[sunburst]

Deft is a good finish for various projects if you don't have spray equipment. You're right, it's basically a slowed-down lacquer that has time to flow out smooth if brushed.
I don't know how well it would work for an instrument finish, I don't know what the hardness is or the cold checking properties or much else about it.

Here's what I do use it for:
A common guitar repair is the "pickguard crack". These cracks in the tops of guitars are caused by the celluloid plastic of the pickguard shrinking. The pickguards used to be glued to the wood of the top and the finish then applied over the pickguard. When the guard shrinks it pulls the top wood with it and splits the top in the process. The repair is:
Remove the pickguard, fix the crack, finish the "scar", and apply a self adhesive pickguard.
I usually finish that scar with Deft because of the ease of aplication, but it then gets covered by a pickguard, so I don't know what it looks like years later.

After saying all that, I guess my answere to your question is...I don't know...

[Michael Lewis]

I'm not sure what the current formulation for DEFT is, but several years ago it was a little softer than most instrument grade lacquer. If you use it get the high gloss variety, as the flattener put in the other styles to make 'satin' or 'rubbed' softens it even more.

[Jim Rowland]

Woody,I have been using Deft gloss on guitars and mandolins for twenty five or so years now, and have no complaints about its efficacy as an instrument lacquer. My old friend JW,the only luthier in town,(he fixed guitars for Chet,Grady Martin,Bob Dylan etc)told me he used it a great deal. It is easy to handle with brush or spray,has a solid content similar to the more expensive materials,dries fast,never cold checks,hardens up very well over time,and buffs to a high sheen. It is available at a good price almost everywhere. If you need satin, it is available too.

Jim

[WoodyMcKenzie]

Thanks for the info on Deft! I will have to do some testing with it first, especially since I use a mineral ground sealer coat and then clear that coat with rosin oil, which is dissolved in turpentine.

http://rubioviolins.com/

Woody

[oldwave maker]

Don Paine of Pomeroy mandolins uses it, sure makes some swell looking stuff. I tried it once over a 1.5# shellac sealer, it went on SO easy, built fast, dried quickly, sanded like a dream, buffed great. Never used it again because I like to suffer for my art, and it didnt provide the requisite amount of pain and suffering in the application process. dont think Id use it over a rosin oil unless the oil had cured a LONG time.

[Mandopickr]

I used Deft on my second attempt. I ended up using the spray can because, when I thinned the lacquer to shoot it through my spray gun I had problems with it drying hard. I ended up sanding that whole coat off and going back to the can. Can anyone tell me what went wrong? Can I not thin this, or does it have to be a special kind of lacquer thinner? The spray can coats went on, dried and rubbed out like a dream.

[thistle3585]

Mandopickr,
I have been using Deft the last couple weeks in my shop and haven't had the problem you described. I don't normally thin it, but on some colder days I have thinned it to get a better viscosity. There isn't really any reason to thin it.
The thinner used in the spray can as an accelerate is a "hotter" material. It will dry much quicker. If you don't shake the can well, or lightly trigger the spray tip you will get a larger shot of the accelerant and it will bubble up the laquer.
If you did have trouble I wonder if you had thoroughly mixed it. Deft will seperate in the can pretty quickly. I have done projects where I didn't keep it well mixed and ended up having different sheens on different parts. When it seperates it wont dry as hard either. I always felt Deft was too brittle than soft.
I am actually going to try ML Campbells laquer or go back to the precat laquers that I had been using.

[Yonkle]

My last two Mandolins I used Deft. I like it. Leaves no milky look, and does dry fast. You still need to do a little flat sanding every other coat or so, to level any drips ect, you can flat sand after about 2 hours or less, so you can get all your coats on in 1 day. I let the last coat dry 2 weeks, then rub out with micro mesh paper and mcguires mirror glaze. Good stuff, a lot better than the stuff Stewmac sells. JD

[tope]

I sprayed 2 guitars with Deft 20 yrs ago. Went on nicely. One guitar I still see occasionaly and the finish is in great shape.

[jpickin]

Does anyone have a pic of an instrument with this kind of finish? #I'd like to see what it looks like before trying it.

Thanks,
Johnny

[Yonkle]

Here is #3 Deft lacquer finish. Rubbed out with micro mesh paper and finished with McQuires Mirror polish. JD

[Yonkle]

Heres a good comparison. Notice on #1 and #2 (left) the lacquer left a milky look on the neck and heal, which I will re-do some day, then look at #3 right, very clear!

[sunburst]

Yonkle, That mikly look in the curve of the neck heal and other places shows up from time to time with nearly every finish I've used, and I've seen others have the problem too. I don't really know what causes it but I wish I did. I can usually control it by being especially careful level-sanding those places and following that with fine Scotchbrite. Anybody know what causes that?

[craigw]

Yonkle and Sunburst, I used to do furniture refinishing as a side job and used both commercial lacquer and deft as a finish. The milky appearance sometimes associated with lacquer finishes is usually the result of "blush" or minute water particles trapped in the finish due to the quick drying time of lacquer. Spraying in humid conditions with a fast drying thinner can cause it. Selecting a slower drying thinner, containing more retarder on muggy days can help or adding retarder to the mix can also prevent it. Once you've got it, though, you might try spraying a coat of straight lacquer thinner which, hopefully, will soften the surface long enough to release the blush. I can also tell you that in all my years of using deft I have never had a blush problem among it's other many attributes. I hope to start my first building project within the next year and won't be afraid to use deft when I reach the finish stage.
craigw

[craigw]

mandopkr, I have used deft for many years as a furniture finish. I have never thinned it and don't recall if the mfr. even recommended thinning. I have never seen a thinner for it and I'm really sqeamish about mixing an incompatible thinner with any kind of paint. The stuff is just too expensive and the results are often devastating. If the temperature of the material is too cold it can get a little thick and not shoot quite as well. I have had good results setting the can in a bucket of warm water to get the material up in the normal temp. range. I usually shoot it at about 20 psi in my antique spray equipment. It's great stuff!
Craigw

[boatman]

My experience with the product is that it is very convenient but not particularly durable. When I read that guys have used it on instruments and that it holds up over time I wonder at my experience: ie, that it has limited ability to withstand moisture and UV (sunlight). Go figure?

[sunburst]

Craig, The cloudyness in specific areas of instruments that I've seen and am refering to is not a blush. I've seen it show up from time to time in two different catalized varnishes as well as lacquer.
BTW, I.B.I.B (isobutyl isobuterate) or butyl cellosolve (Stewmac has it I think) will remove a blush after the fact without the danger of finish damage possible with lacquer thinner.

[thistle3585]

My first guess would be moisture like Craig suggested. My second, which has happened to me once, is that the stain was incompatable. I once ordered some stain and the store gave me a slightly different type of product without my knowledge. I was tinting my lacquer with it. It sprayed out fine, but the next day I came in and there was a haze on it. There seemed to be a little bit of a greasy or oily residue on the finish too. We never figured out what exactly was the problem, but haven't had it since going back to the original stain.

[sunburst]

Another good guess, Thistle, but I've seen it on unstained Walnut, Maple and Mahogany.
It seems to show up in the places that are not easy to sand so that you sand with short strokes.
Only sometimes too. I've been trying to figure it out for 10 or 12 years. Fortunately it doesn't happen often.

Also I almost never tint lacquer with stain or anything.
I thought it was just me for a long time 'til I saw others have the same problem.

[thistle3585]

I know I should just let it go, but try this

BLOOMING:
Film looks bluish, or iridescent.

Causes:
Undried oil based finishing materials, and/or incompletely cured oil based
stains trapped under the surface of the lacquer.

Corrections:
* Always allow sufficient drying time
(for thorough deep drying, not just surface dry or "dry to the touch") of oil based finishing products prior to topcoating with lacquer.
* Extend Dry Times of oil based products in cold or humid conditions.
* Add Star ™ BLENCO REDUCER to oil based finishing materials such as
oil based stains and pastewood fillers to control drying and accelerate cure times under cool and humid conditions.

Lacquer troublehooting webpage
http://www.woodfinishsupply.com/LacTroubleShoot.html

[sunburst]

Thanks Thistle. That's a great reference!