Nice Gibson DMM on eBay [Archive]

kudzugypsy

Jun-28-2006, 12:20pm

this is not a post directly about this auction - i will use it as an example only, as i think, yes, the seller was one of our members and you know, sometimes situations just come up outside of our control and first things need to be put first in our lives.

imo, i think the market is saying that gib$on has overpriced these mandos. not just with this auction, but from what i have seen over the last few years. this is NOT a negative about the instrument, (they are really good instruments) but they have just got this instrument retail priced way out of line...i know, i know, the whole gib$on pricing argument again, but we are talking a retail price of $24K-26K (?) - that is some serious greenbacks. the secondary market is where the rubber meets the road - that is really what the *value* of the instrument is - that is why gils and etc sell for more on the secondary market and others sell for less - the true value is more than what the luthiers were getting (up until a few years ago).

the way i see it, this (their current retail pricing) actually hurts gibson sales because the ONLY way to sell really high end ANYTHING, is to make the point that it will hold / increase in value over time (yes, i know over time means many years) - but if it becomes apparent that these instruments are losing value, it makes it very hard to justify the price TO THE BUYER - now if you drop $24K on XXX maker and you see the value hold / increase, its really not that bad of a purchase, and the buyer is a happy camper.

the main point being if the seller had to sell the mando due to a financial situation and in the future wanted to buy another mandolin to replace it....dont you think they would think in the back of their mind, "oh, remember the beating i took last time, maybe i should look for a better alternative." - i know i would - i mean, sound/brand is one thing....bleeding money is another.

Jerry Byers

Jun-28-2006, 12:29pm

How is this any different from a new car? You buy a new car, it loses value when you drive it off the lot. You buy a new mandolin, it loses value when you take it out of the store.

In reality, very few mandolins hold their value close to their new purchase price. We had this discussion last week about buying mandolins as an investment. Very few mandolins are investment grade.

Your better option is to buy used. The value of the mandolin is closer to your initial investment.

Russ Jordan

Jun-28-2006, 12:42pm

Jeremy is playing professionally. Maybe he did not pay retail for the mandolin?

wallflower

Jun-28-2006, 12:49pm

kudzugypsy-

Well stated!

#

I guess we now know the market value of a DMM. #And that may be inflated in light of the fact that only one person bid on it.

Jerry Byers

Jun-28-2006, 1:01pm

I wouldn't rely on the one bid to determine the market value. Consider the price level and considering where it is being sold.

At that price range, very few non-professionals would be able to purchase that mandolin. If they could afford that price level, they are more likely to be on the lookout for other high-end mandolins. Also, exposure on the Cafe and on eB@y doesn't reach out to everybody. Many folks still want to spend their hard-earned cash at a reputable dealer. I'm not saying most folks at dishonest, but there is safety in numbers.

If I was to listed a Gilchrist in the classifieds for $15,000 and nobody bought it, it doesn't mean they are overpriced - there could be other monetary factors at play. Right now, we have a few - the real estate market, recent tax season, gas prices, etc.

mandoJeremy

Jun-28-2006, 2:15pm

Yeah that one was mine and I hated to let it go but I am getting married and want to clear up things before I do so. Of course I have to buy a big fat diamond also! The guy that bought it did get a great deal on it and I know he is going to appreciate it very much. I actually traded to get that mandolin also so I didn't get it free or anything because I am not an official Gibson artist or endorsee. I also don't ever see the guy losing money on this one because he got it at such a great deal. I would have held out for a higher price but I needed to move it fast.

AlanN

Jun-28-2006, 2:39pm

Sheesh.

Much too much speculation on prices, seller's rationale, etc. Just practice your scales...

woodysny

Jun-28-2006, 2:48pm

To set the record straight, Elderly is currently offering a new DMM for $20,500. List price is $25,554. Quite a bit
of difference.....

kyblue

Jun-28-2006, 2:49pm

Jeremy,

Too bad you aren't marrying a girl that would rather have a good mando than a diamond.

I mean, really, what can you do with a diamond ring?

Paula http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

wallflower

Jun-28-2006, 2:56pm

Jerry Byers-

I disagree...

I think ebay is the great equalizer. #If ever there was a means to determine market value of something, it's ebay. #Ebay has become the place that nearly everyone defaults to when attempting to determine a fair market price for stuff.

Obviously in this case, a sample of one is clearly not sufficient to perform a regression analysis to indicate a correlation to reject or not a hypothesis. #However, it is very interesting none the less.

Back to my scales #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Jerry Byers

Jun-28-2006, 3:13pm

It's fair to disagree, but I would never call eB@y the great equalizer. The whole dynamics of that medium has changed over the last 5 years. And certainly, it's not going to determine the market value of a high-value item.

The price of any item is determine by supply and demand, the value placed upon the item, and the availability of funds. The market is real nervous right now and people are not readily spending hard-earned bucks.

The number of folks willing to spend $1000 on a mandolin is greatly higher than those willing to spend $20,000 on a mandolin. Does this mean the higher-priced mandolin is overpriced? Not necessarily. Supply and demand might drive the price up. How people value the item might drive the price up. But if funds are not available, the item won't sell. Also, if funds are tied up in other items that are not readily liquid, then the item won't sell.

Since auctions are driven by dollars to list, the more interesting observation would be to see how the same item sells over a longer period of time. I have many times sold or not sold something because of current events or even just the day of the week. In reality, a large percentage of sellers on eB@y are not professional sellers, or even have a sense for selling. The days of a lucky auction have given way to the correctly placed auction.

Tom C

Jun-28-2006, 3:40pm

Bob Denton

Jun-28-2006, 3:49pm

How many DMMs get made and sold annually?

In this case it may walk like a duck and quack like a duck but it sure didn't sell like a duck....

Cya!

Santiago

Jun-28-2006, 4:07pm

There are some things in this world "to have and to hold" and others that can be bought and sold at prices determined by the open market. This is not about mandolin valuation just about values. Congrats to seller.

Jerry Byers

Jun-28-2006, 4:10pm

At that price range, very few non-professionals would be able to purchase that mandolin.

Surely you do not mean bluegrass professionals, right? You gotta be a doctor, lawyer, or drug dealer to afford one those. But if I were, I'd buy it. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
I didn't mean to imply that non-professional players couldn't afford that price range. I meant that very few non-professional players could justify buying a mandolin in that price range.

Unless you're making money by playing, or you're a collector of fine instruments, some of these high price tags are hard to justify. Of course, there are exceptions.

Baron Collins-Hill

Jun-28-2006, 4:34pm

on the equalizer topic, remember that last year, i think, someone bought a peice of old toast for 20000 bucks. i think that ebay is a good equalizer for some things, but once in a while, someone gets a real deal (or an overpriced breakfast).

baron

kudzugypsy

Jun-28-2006, 4:36pm

yes jeremy, congratulations and good luck!

if i'm not mistaken, the DMM at elderly has been there for a LONG time, unsold. they havent been a OAI dealer in a year, so it has to be close to 2 years on the wall, unsold.

as far as the ebay question - i dont think you could point to a better marketplace anywhere - if anything, most of the desirable stuff is going at a very high premium

...yes Alan, i'm off to practice now, but NOT those dreaded scales again - i'm transcribing 'Kenny Baker plays Bill Monroe' this week! Hot stuff, LOTS to learn from a good fiddler! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

jaydee

Jun-28-2006, 5:03pm

Congratulations Jeremy. I'm getting married soon too, good luck to both of us.
Jeremy

Scotti Adams

Jun-28-2006, 5:09pm

..make that another one (me) getting married in October. Congrats guys.

Ken Sager

Jun-28-2006, 5:44pm

Believe this was the same DMM listed in the classifieds at $16K OBO.

Just wondering if the bidder thought others would jump in at the end. Hope he's very happy; that's a good deal on a mint DMM.
I almost blew coffee out my nose reading that line! And I haven't had a cup of coffee since NOON!

Mint AND distressed?

How is that possible?!?!?!?

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

mandoJeremy

Jun-28-2006, 5:45pm

Well I waited this long (I'm now 30) and I said I would never get married but she just had to drop into my life and mess all of that up (kidding!)!!! I would sell everything I have for her and never regret it for a moment. Paula, I don't know what she can do with that ring either but she has promised to buy me a Loar one day and I will hold her to it so I guess it isn't too bad of a deal! Also, congrats to all of you soon to be married guys also!

pickinNgrinnin

Jun-28-2006, 5:46pm

Jeremy-

Congratulations! I wish you and your future bride much happiness.

Scotti Adams

Jun-28-2006, 5:54pm

I have sold a mando or two to pay for a divorce but cant say I ever sold one to get married. I did sell a '66 Nova Super Sport when I got married the first time to buy furniture for the house...man..wish I still had that SS.

jim simpson

Jun-28-2006, 6:03pm

Why are divorces so expensive? Because they're worth it! - just kidding, I've been married 33 years so far.
What do you do if you miss your mother-in-law! Reload

J. Mark Lane

Jun-28-2006, 6:05pm

Good grief. What a bunch of belly-achin'.

First, congrats to Jeremy. Marriage is a great thing...once you get used to it <g>.

Second, what kudzugypsy said. Right on.

Third, there are certainly mandolins that hold their value, and increase. A mandolin is not a Chevy. It's absurd to say that there are no mandolins out there that hold their value.

Fourth, only a professional could afford a DMM? Huh? I would say a professional (mandolin player) may be the last person who could afford one. God bless them all.

Fifth, the DMM is a wonderful mandolin, at least based on the one I have played. It would be foolish to suggest that it is anything other than a true, top-quality F5. Worth $25k? Well, the market is where that question will be answered. Clearly, they are selling them, no? The secondary market will have its ups and downs, and in this very limited market may not always accomodate someone who wants a quick sale.

And finally, good on Jeremy! I've gotten to know him a bit, and I know him to be a good person. The fact that he has his priorities in order is a fine thing. Best of luck to ya, bud!

mandoJeremy

Jun-28-2006, 6:35pm

Thanks Mark, you are quite a great person yourself. I am sure I will have to get used to marriage but I am willing to and that's for sure. She is simply amazing and it takes someone amazing to even get me and then put up with me!

JEStanek

Jun-28-2006, 7:07pm

I think Jeremy may have his house in order. I'm willing to bet he still has a mighty fine sounding mandolin to play and this will pay for a lot of stuff coming donw the pike. It good to willingly and happily make sacrifices for those we love and make our family. Best of luck Jeremy and all the other Grooms to be (and be again).

Jamie

Django Fret

Jun-28-2006, 9:03pm

MandoJeremy, let me add my congratulations and wishes for a lifetime of happiness for both of you. #I would only add that you can always find another fine mandolin, but having the right partner will be worth far more than any Loar. #

I sincerely hope that you both have found that special partner, and both of you are willing to do what it takes to really make a marriage work. # All the best!

ronlane3

Jun-28-2006, 9:53pm

I think ebay is the great equalizer. #If ever there was a means to determine market value of something, it's ebay. #Ebay has become the place that nearly everyone defaults to when attempting to determine a fair market price for stuff.
I would disagree with this. I would venture to say that a lot of folks don't bother with Ebay (including myself). I know some that live on Ebay searching for the "next big deal", but I'm sure that there are plenty of others that rarely look there when buying instruments.

The only reason that I look on ebay is because 1) I'm bored stiff or 2) someone that "lives" there spotted a higher end mandolin.

I would bet that most people that could afford $20K for a mandolin aren't looking to find something like that on Ebay due to the fraud factor (not including Jeremy in this case). They get them from other sources.

I'm not saying that it isn't one of several factors to determine market value, but not the means to it.

Just my opinion.

musical mama

Jun-28-2006, 10:17pm

I want to second what #Django Fret said, especially the second paragraph! #That was right on!

My hubby really couldn't care less about music, but I wouldn't trade him for anything. #I admit I sometimes have felt like killing him, but I'd never trade! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Big Joe

Jun-28-2006, 11:16pm

My wife and I have had four wonderful years of marriage! Not bad out of 37! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif . I don't think E-bay is much of a scale for anything but those who like e-bay. Few quality mandolins sell on there compared to the ones that sell through private sales or dealers. Even the cafe is a better guage than e-bay on mandolins. Even the cafe is only a small fraction of the sales in mandolins...and higher end mandolins sold in the world or USA. While any of these may be a guide to help determine a starting and ending price, they are by no means the real answer to what something is worth. Had Jeremy had more time to market his instrument he may well have done substantially better. Like anything else in life, it is all in the timing. That is far less than any DMM has sold for used or new. It was a great mandolin too. I look at e-bay for watch prices and there used to be some bargains. Today you can buy for less nearly anywhere else. Not much of a basis for determining value. Lower end products tend to bring a bit too much while upper end items often bring much less than they would elsewhere. I think this has to do with internet purchasing and the risk involved in e-bay purchases. Anything you buy on e-bay is a real risk in getting what you expect. Just my thought.

jasona

Jun-28-2006, 11:57pm

Congrats Jeremy!

lloydlore

Jun-29-2006, 7:35am

In general auction value is less than retail value and of course there are exceptions. Equalizer or whatever, it's hard to beat the market exposure on eBay. Also, you get a pretty good idea of final price where other places you may only know what the asking price was.

Who buys high end stuff on eBay? Lots of people, I see dealers bidding all the time. Didn't an Loar era F4 sell for a pretty good price recently. Obviously there are people willing to bid on a DMM, and obviously there are some bargains:D

Congrats Jeremy, enjoy the journey

Jerry Byers

Jun-29-2006, 7:48am

What's the word on the other DMM in the classifieds? Asking price is $16k or best offer.

Big Joe

Jun-29-2006, 9:02am

That was the same DMM.

Jerry Byers

Jun-29-2006, 9:32am

Thanks. I didn't put 2 and 2 together apparently.

Links

Jun-29-2006, 9:37am

I think Big Joe is entirely correct. #Ebay has become sort of an enigma and is not necessarily the leading indicator. #Before Jeremy's mandolin came up for sale I had commented that the Gilcrist that was for sale (at a starting price of $26,500) was not necessarily an indicator of the "health" of higher end mandolins. #I personally think the sale of $5,000 to $10,000 mandolins is more indicative of the health of higher end mandolins than either a DMM, Nugget, or Gilcrest. #The super high end market is so fickle that one or two sales, in my opinion, do not tell you very much. #Like all high end items, you should only buy them because you love them, not because you think they will increase in value.

For items that I like, but don't "love", my criteria for buying is, "if I run into a problem and have to sell it, what can I get for it the next day?" #Someone got a great mandolin for an excellent price!

PS: #Congrats Jeremy! #Do you realize what this is going to do to your golf game?

Bob Denton

Jun-29-2006, 11:15am

I made the comment about the Chevy, however a museum quality 1923 Chevy with the original finish in perfect condition with no cracks, etc would also fetch a pretty penny.

I also agree that E-Bay can be bizzare at times. I recently bid on a used tripod, and the winner, after a bidding frenzy, paid more than the item costs new!

THis was on the net a few days ago:

Married 25 years.

Took a look at my wife one day and said, "Honey, 25 years ago we had a cheap apartment, a cheap car, we slept on a sofa bed and watched a 10 inch black and white TV. But I got to sleep every night with a hot
25 year old blonde."

"Now we have a nice house, a nice car, a king-size bed and a plasma big screen TV. # But I'm sleeping with a 50 year old woman. #It seems to me that you are not holding up your side of things."

My wife is a very reasonable woman. # She then told me to go out and find a hot 25 year old blonde. And that she would make sure that I was once again living in a cheap apartment, driving a cheap car, sleeping on a sofa bed and watching a 10 inch black and white TV.[I]

bgmando

Jun-30-2006, 3:24pm

I'm lost on the financial worth of the MM or the DMM.

But musically, I played a brand new MM the other day and I was impressed. And I went in skeptical.

At least they're getting very good, if not great, musical instruments out of the deal.

A man who would sell a mandolin for marriage has already made a monumental sacrifice for the wife.

May you be blessed many times over for it.