Taking your mandolin on a plane [Archive]

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alespa

Jun-09-2006, 4:33pm

I just talked to American Airlines about carrying my mando on board. Funny, but the l+w+h measurement on my case is 46" and the limit is 45" . . . the lady I spoke with on the phone assured me they would not let me carryon, and that I could buy a seat for it. Yeah, right!

She also told me something I haven't heard. She said I have to loosen the strings. Can anyone shed some light on this?

Any advise on checking on . . . in light of the airline not "being responsible for any damage they inflict" on a harmless mandolin?

John Flynn

Jun-09-2006, 7:47pm

Most of the time, they will let it on with no problems, over measurement or not. I see people carrying guitars on all the time and they have to go over 45 linear inches. I also see some really fat rectangular violin cases being allowed on that look possibly over-sized. I think that 98% of the time you will be fine. Occassionaly you run into a problem. If you do, be polite and even beg a little. They will often "make an exception."

I would avoid checking it if you can, unless you have a flight case, which you probably don't. If you get stuck checking it unexpectedly, I would slack the strings and remove the bridge. I would also pad the headstock snugly with crumpled up newspapers or something like that.

good_ol_al_61

Jun-09-2006, 9:08pm

Alespa:

I have flown with my mandolin across the country about 10 times since 9/11 and have never even been questioned about carrying it on. I carry my laptop and my mandolin and check everything else. Flown mostly Delta, but some Southwest also.

alespa

Jun-09-2006, 9:13pm

Thanks guys . . . I would hope it won't be a problem and I certainly don't want to check it.

Al, I see you have an Arches on order . . . that's got to be exciting.

Rick Crenshaw

Jun-09-2006, 10:17pm

DON'T ASK the attendants or gate personnel about it. Just walk on like you expect it to go. I've NEVER been asked about the mandolin. I do the same with a guitar in a full sized Calton case. I get by the security, but usually have to gate check it. That's OK. By then I get to LOCK the case. Can't lock your case if you check it at the ticket counter.

bradeinhorn

Jun-10-2006, 7:58am

i think that thing about loosening the strings (or the neck will snap) is a total myth a used to do it with guitars but forgot a couple times and no big deal. the cabin is pressurized and it really shouldn't make a difference...

you could consider getting a travelite. i haven't had any issue traveling with that and chances are it is way lighter and just as sturdy as your current case. just hold onto and keep pleading with whoever gets in your way.

Jim Garber

Jun-10-2006, 1:55pm

Last time I flew I took my double tennis bag. I put the mandolin in its hard case in one section of the bag and had plenty of pockets for book, CD player etc. I brought it on as my one carry-on. I am sure that it measures over 45"overall. The check-in folks did go thru the bag but that will happen anyway.

Jim

mandodebbie

Jun-10-2006, 3:23pm

I am currently on vacation in Louisiana. There was no problem taking my mando on the three connecting flights from Winnipeg, Manitoba to Baton Rouge. Just slide it under your seat. #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif Oh, and wrap a chain-type bicycle lock around the neck of the case to guard against the hinges popping open.

Stephen Perry

Jun-11-2006, 6:15am

Delta is getting bad press over violins on board. See violinist.com for information.

Boomerts

Jun-11-2006, 6:21am

Hi guys and gals,

Dont know if I am the only cafe resident airline pilot but I can tell you a few things about carrying your Mandolin (instrument) on aircraft. I am a pilot for US Airways (US Airways Express) and I take my mando to work with me every now and then. Luck for me I can take my mando into and store it up in the flightdeck. If I see a passenger getting on with any musical instrument I will inform the flight attendant to let me know if it will not fit in the passenger cabin at which time I would try to find a place for it elsewhere. DO NOT EVER CHECK YOU INSTRUMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!! I will tell you folks that the baggage handlers DO NOT care about your instrument even if it has those nice little FRAGILE stickers all over it. I have personally seen this numerous times. (This also includes your normal luggage) Dont believe me? Next time you are at the gate waiting for your flight look out the window and watch the baggage handlers, they are a pretty rough crowd.
Always call and ask your airline if you will be allowed to carry your instrument onboard. If they tell you you can, then get them to agree if you get to the gate and the gate agent or flight attendant refuses you, you will receieve a full refund for your ticket.
A little patients, politely asking, and sometimes begging will get you what you need to get you instrument on and safe. Just make sure you are very nice and uderstanding that your instrument does not meet carry on size. But then beg them to protect it because it is priceless to you.

Tim http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

guitharsis

Jun-11-2006, 11:18am

Flew USAir into Wilmington, NC on June 5 from New York. Carried an Eastman mandolin/case with me all of the way. I had my husband accompany me to the airport check-in just in case they would not let me carry on the mandolin. I would've let him bring it back home rather than risk my mandolin getting damaged.

Dave Greenspoon

Jun-11-2006, 8:31pm

A few years ago on the Cafe Scott had posted a letter from TSA(?). If I recall, it was an authorization recognizing that instruments could be carried on in excess of the normal restrictions. Maybe it can be posted again. I know that the few times I have flown with my mando I've always carried it on board with no hassles.

allenhopkins

Jun-11-2006, 9:17pm

Did a "Ren Faire" in Prescott Valley AZ (75 miles north of Phoenix) in May, and took my century-old Washburn bowl-back mandola, as the most "medieval" or "Renaissance" appearing mando I owned. In its big 'ol homemade plywood case, it would never fit anywhere in the passenger compartment, so into the checked baggage it went. I took the string tension off the neck, wrapped the whole instrument in bubble wrap, and screwed the case closed (with thumbscrews, so the security people could get in if they wanted). Then I printed "Fragile Musical Instrument" on the outside of the case in huge letters, crossed my fingers and hoped for the best. The old 'dola came through completely unscathed, although a bowed psaltery I had packed in a separate suitcase (along with a zither and a soprano recorder -- never know what you'll need at a Renaissance Faire) got jostled enough to require restringing in AZ. So despite the reps of "baggage smashers" on American and United Airlines, the fragile old instrument got from Rochester to Chicago to Phoenix to Dallas to Rochester none the worse for wear. Not sure I'd do it again, though.
Some instruments, and a bowl-back mandola is a good example, just don't have flight cases built to their dimensions. Further, millions of bags, cases and packages get shipped around the world every day, and I'd hazard that only a small fraction sustain damage. Good common sense, some forethought in packing and protecting, and those crossed fingers may be the main things that are needed.

ApK

Jun-11-2006, 9:19pm

A few years ago on the Cafe Scott had posted a letter from TSA(?). #If I recall, it was an authorization recognizing that instruments could be carried on in excess of the normal restrictions.
No, that's not what the letter was.

You can check my post here for details:
http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin....5;st=25 (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=12;t=33365;st=25)

TrippingLily

Jun-11-2006, 9:22pm

I am so glad i dont play the upright bass!!!!!

ApK

Jun-12-2006, 7:45am

I am so glad i dont play the upright bass!!!!!
Yeah, at least if it was the cello, Alitalia has a special seating policy for it:
http://www.alitaliausa.com/your_tr....ent.htm (http://www.alitaliausa.com/your_travel/baggage/special_baggage/musical_instrument.htm)

Mattg

Jun-12-2006, 10:50am

I travel with my Kentucky 380s in a hardshell case frequently. Notice it's my Kentucky and not my Eastman 615. Still, I have had no problems. There is often someone on board with a big guitar anyway. I check in my suitcase but take my mando and briefcase onboard with me. A close fitting case fits well in the overhead. The only problem I encounter is some old geezer wanting me to whip out my "banjo" and "play me some dueling banjos". No kidding!. Insulting on so many levels.

Jim Hilburn

Jun-12-2006, 12:14pm

alespa

Jun-12-2006, 12:39pm

Boy, I appreciate all the feedback from you guys. The flight I am on is "wide open" so I hope that will allow the ticket agent to give me some slack. My viewpoint is if there's plenty of room it shouldn't be an issue. We'll see. I get on the plane tomorrow, and I am leaning towards taking it. I wonder if there are lockers or someplace that would allow me to leave it if they don't let me carry onboard . . .

ApK

Jun-12-2006, 12:45pm

On my initial flight to Loarfest earlier this year, I was confronted by the boarding personnel of America Worst about my mandolin which was in a Stew-Mac case, the smallest possible mando case. I told the lady there was a letter from the TSA, although I think I said FAA, and she told me that it had been overturned. If anyone has any info about such a change, I'd like to know about it. I'm about to head for Santa Cruz and want to know if these documents can still be used. #
After making a scene, they did allow it on and it of course took up far less room then what most people carried on. I flew back on the same flight as Eric Thomas from Due West, and they nearly snagged him, but he had a very good way to deal with it. Instead of getting your back up and getting in their face like I have a tendancy to do, say please and be nice.
See my post above regarding the letter. Forget about it. (good advice for most things on the Intenet). Cite it, and get in the flight crew's face, and you're as likely to miss your flight and spend time explaining your behavior to airport police as you are to get your way. The 'please and be nice' method is, as you say, a far safer and more reliable approach.

Bob Denton

Jun-12-2006, 7:02pm

I have made two international flights this year (France and Ireland) with guitar. A musical insrument is considered part of one's person and we are legally entitled to take an instrument IN ADDITION to two peices.

My full sized hard shell guitar will fit in all aircraft except the 777. I usually try to get on early and hand the instrument to the cabin staff and ask them to please place it in the closet.

I have NEVER had an issue with either my ocatve or standrd mandolin nor banjo. In addition I haven't checked in an instrument for the past 6 or 7 years. (I did leave my Bella Voce in the overhead after a long flight to Houston, but sprinted back to the gate in time!)

I have attached an abridged version of a recent e-mail to the Gegg peck, General Manager II of Continental.

Cya!

Dear Gregg,

I am a professional musician and always travel with a musical instrument and a good percentage of my travel is music related. The guitar is standard sized and fits in the overhead on 737s,757s, 767s but not the 777. Both international air crews were accommodating and happily placed the $10,000 guitar in the closet.

In addition to the guitar, I have a standard sized roll on and a small shoulder bag containing personal electronics, passport and magazines and is placed under the seat.

When I was around 10th from the front of the Elite queue, one of the security people, opened the divider and forced many of us into the now larger regular queue. I complained that I was an elite passenger and wanted to remain in the Elite queue. He became aggressive and told me I was to go where I was told. I decided not to become argumentative and entered the queue with the rest of the disgruntled Elite passengers.

He then came up to me and stated that I could not bring more than two items and I would have to check the guitar. I explained that I was on the return leg from a 13,000 mile trip and have not had any issues carrying the instrument on board. Nor had I in the hundreds of thousands of miles I have flown on Continental, since instruments were allowed on board.

He became extremely rude, pointed to the wall and said that only two pieces were allowed and that was final. He then ejected me from the queue.

I then asked to speak to a Continental supervisor or his supervisor. He stated that Continental had nothing to do with him and he was a federal agency. He also refused to let me see his name tag and refused to call a supervisor. Three TSA agents came by and explained to him that he was wrong and an instrument can be carried in addition to two carry on items. He ignored them and the told me they had no authority. The TSA people told me there had been prior incidents with this guy. They suggested I find a supervisor.

I went to the service counter and requested to see a senior Continental supervisor. I explained the situation to Jean Passe at the counter, who went the extra mile and took me back to the security areas to try and identify this guy. Eventually we found the manager, who identified the employee in question as Nabieu Sessay. Jean mentioned that he had a problem with another security employee the day before.

The manager, immediately acknowledged that there was no problem in carrying a guitar through security and took us to the office.

I gave a full report to the security firm and they promised to take immediate disciplinary action against Sessay.

I was not in a great mood at this point, and had an extensive wait for the San Jose flight. When first class and elite access was called, I was the one of the first passengers in the line. As I was having my ticked taken, the ticket agent informed me that I was going to have to check my guitar unless I bought another ticket!. This was becoming a bad movie!

I explained, some what irritated, that I was not going to check my guitar, I was boarding the flight and then walked down the jet way. She yelled that I was being inconsiderate to the other passengers, which I ignored.

When I was putting my luggage and guitar away, one passenger yelled “That inconsiderate ####### is taking up three spaces”, instigated by the comments of the ticket agent. A number of passengers started complaining about my “hogging the overhead” and whining that I should “buy a seat for the guitar”. These were obviously New Yorkers, The guitar takes up less space than a standard roll on and large garment bag that many of the passengers carried aboard. I tried to explain that I was entitled to bring my instrument on board, but to no avail. A shouting match started and I decided to hunker down in my bulkhead seat not wanting to get thrown off the plane. No furhter problems on the flight.

ApK

Jun-12-2006, 9:21pm

I tried to explain that I was entitled to bring my instrument on board, but to no avail.
I hope they were serious about taking action against the security guy. Glad you got his name.

Two questions, though:
1. Why do you believe you were entitled to bring the instrument on board?
2. How do you figure a guitar takes less space than a garmet bag and a roll-aboard? A roll aboard and a garment bag should take the space of two roll-aboards in a luggage bin, leaving room for two more roll-aboards in most bins. A guitar fills the bottom of the bin, which seems like it'd prevent any more roll-aboards from fitting, and only leaving room for small or quishible items on top.

Bob Denton

Jun-13-2006, 1:24pm

otterly2k

Jun-13-2006, 1:32pm

*** slightly off topic ***

Of course part of the problem is that since the invention of smallish rolling bags, everybody seems to try to avoid checking luggage, leaving very little room in the overheads for anything else. #Nowadays, there is so much of this that unless you're part of the first 50% of passengers on the plane, there is no more room in the overheads and everything else gets checked. #Annoying!

ApK

Jun-13-2006, 2:40pm

1. A number of years ago I read that one of the musicians associations or unions had got the FAA to approve a ruling that musicians could take their instrument IN ADDITION to the two carry on bags allowed if the instruments fit in the overhead. This was verified by both the security manager in Newark and the 3 TSA guys that tried to help.
To the best of my knowledge, and after a search of the federal regulations database, there appears to be no such FAA rule. #I'm still checking. FAA public information has not gotten back to me yet. #Neither the TSA guys nor the security guys opinion or memory matter.
I'd be greatly relieved to find out that such a rule exists.
FAA consumer hotline: # 1-866-TELL-FAA

Government regulations database:
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov

Just out of curiosity, hypothetically, should there prove to be NO such rule, will you abandon your sense of entitlement, stop putting your baggage needs ahead of everyone else's, and obey the instructions of the flight crew, who are responsible for the safe operation of the aircraft and the comfort and safety of hundreds of passengers, and instead just be greatful for the times that tthere IS room and you CAN bring the guitar or banjo on board?

I apologize for the tone, and I really don't mean to single you out specifically in this, you just happen to be in the thread with me here, and are serving as a foil me to vent about a broad class of behavior encounter while travelling. #And, in truth, as you say, it's not usually muscians with these issues...it's more often the golf clubs or the shopping bags. #Nothing personal, I assure you, and thanks for letting me rail on.

ApK

Ken Sager

Jun-13-2006, 3:07pm

Rail on, brother.

Here's my advice: Lay low, be kind and remain optimistic. Most of all, be gracious and say THANK YOU to everyone who helps you when you're carrying an instrument on board. Set a good example so the next musician may have an easier time, too.

Another tip: check as much of your other baggage as possible so they can't hassle you about too many bags, or taking up too much space in the overhead bins.

Maintain a small footprint.

Laying low,
Ken

kyblue

Jun-13-2006, 3:27pm

I think Ken's advice is right on. If I travel with my mandolin, I make sure I don't have anything else with me, figuring they'll have a lot worse time refusing it to come aboard if it's the only thing I'm carrying.

Also, I put the hard case inside a soft case, that can be used to carry other essentials. In addition, I've never been hassled since there is the illusion that I only have a soft case that can be 'squished' if necessary.

Paula

kww

Jun-13-2006, 6:13pm

I think Ken has the best point: if you are one of those jerks that tries to carry on roller bag the size of Greater Toronto, no one is going to feel sorry for your mandolin. If you board the plane with a 1" too big mandolin and a paperback book, people are likely to be sympathetic.

Ken Sager

Jun-14-2006, 8:44am

Here's another tip:

Put your mandolin in a tennis racket bag. Nobody gets hassled for carrying on a tennis racket.

$20 at a local sporting goods store.

ApK

Jun-14-2006, 9:22am

Hehe. Or just put a Prince or Wilson sticker on your mando case and tell them it's a racquetball racket! As familar as most folks are with mandos, you could probably open the case and STILL claim it's a racket.

Bob Denton

Jun-14-2006, 11:31am

Since both the head of security at Newark and 3 TSA guys were aware of the regulation, I have to assume it exists. If it is not an FAA regulation, it may be TSA or some other regulating athority. As I said the TSA guys told the security wanker that "A music instrument is considered part of one's person and is allowed in addition to normal carry on baggage" This was their terminology which sounded like it came from some formal regulation.

I will always follow the instructions of the flight crew. This was not the case in this situation. It was a ticket agent who was wrong and I didn't have time to debate the issue. If the flight crew had asked me to check my instrument, I would not have boarded.

I spend a lot of money every year with Continental. In addition, I am always at the gate well in advance of boarding. I book my seats well in advance and make sure that I have access to early boarding. I usually have to leave my home in Santa Cruz County at 3:30 am to assure I am in time to board early in San Jose.

If you board late, and find that the overheads are full, that's both your choice to board late or not at all.

So yes, I will continue to place my instruments in the overhead with impunity! I would also advise the rest of us to do the same.

There is a difference between a roll on full of unwashed clothing coming back from a vacation or business trip and $10K - $15K instrumnet at risk from bad handling. The guy with the roll on is trying to save a few minutes. I am trying to protect a vintage instrument.

In addition, I always check my luggage to save overhead space. I never carry on items which could be checked, unlike the majority of passengers. The roll on mentioned in the letter containes thousands of dollars of camera equipment.

Cya!

ApK

Jun-14-2006, 12:15pm

Here's some good info:

http://www.local802afm.org/publication_entry.cfm?xEntry=64150483

Bob Denton

Jun-14-2006, 1:55pm

That's very interesting, however, it is over three years old.

THis discussion is almost moot since a typical mandolin case shouldn't ever be an issue. It's the full size guitars and banjos.

Cya!

Bob

alespa

Jun-19-2006, 8:32pm

SUCCESS!!

I made from Seattle to Texas no problem. Flight had 30-something people on a 180 capacity 757. Dallas back to Seattle, no problem, though I did get a look at the gate—not sure what it meant. One of my sons got his grandma to get him an early birthday present . . . a PS2 Rock Star game with guitar. Hey, if it gets him interested in playing a real guitar, great! He carried that on board, and that case was about the same size.

Thanks for all the comments, and hopefully this will help someone else.

Matt

EdSherry

Jun-21-2006, 11:16pm

Bob Denton

Jun-22-2006, 11:13am

Thanks!! It wouldn't have helped in my case since I doubt the security guy could read.

My read of this letter is that you absolutely have the right to carry the instrument through security, a right I was denied.

Here is the TSA's current take:

Transporting Musical Instruments

Musical instruments are permitted as carry-on or as checked baggage. #To assist passengers traveling with instruments the TSA partnered with musical organizations around the country to understand the challenges of transporting musical instruments. #The following recommendations result from these partnerships and are provided to assist musicians:

General Recommendations:

It is always important to check with your air carrier prior to transporting your instrument. #TSA is concerned with screening the instrument while the air carrier determines whether an instrument meets the size requirements for their aircraft.

Horn instruments are best transported as checked baggage.
String instruments, within carrier size limitations, are best transported as carry-on items.

Checked items that are fragile or need special handling should have short written handling and repacking instructions placed within the case where a screener will take notice. #Such instructions should be very clear and understandable to someone with no musical background.

Carry-on Instruments and Screening Checkpoints:

You may carry one (1) musical instrument in addition to one (1) carry-on and one (1) personal item through the screening checkpoint. #This is a TSA Screening Policy. #Air carriers may or may not allow the additional carry-on item on their aircraft. #Please check with your air carrier prior to arriving at the airport.

Musical instruments must be x-rayed, or physically screened, before transport on an aircraft.
Musical instruments will be handled very carefully and screeners will allow the owner to be as involved as possible in any physical screening.

If the instrument cannot be cleared through the security checkpoint as a carry-on, the owner should make arrangements to check the item.

Instruments as Checked Baggage:

Musical instruments are allowed as checked baggage as long as they fit within the size/weight scope of the transporting air carrier and that said air carrier accepts the item(s).

Owners are encouraged to remain with their instrument during screening to ensure they are repacked properly and protected, if opened for physical screening. #

Owners should be present when an instrument is removed from its case for screening. #For this reason, musicians are advised to add at least 30 minutes to the airline's recommended arrival window when checking their instrument.

ApK

Jun-22-2006, 1:49pm

Re the TSA policy on instruments as carry-ons: #here's a printable version of the TSA policy (as of 2003):

http://www.local1000.com/pdf/carryon.pdf

I strongly suggest that you print out a copy and carry it with you. #

However, the TSA makes it clear that the airlines can refuse to carry items that do not meet the airlines' dimensional restrictions. #

I fully agree with earlier statements that you don't have a "right" to bring instruments on board. #That said, I've found that a "polite but firm" attitude, especially if you make an effort not to overburden the overhead space with other carry-on items, works well.
That is NOT a copy of TSA policy. #That is a copy of an unsubstatiated letter circulating around the Internet supposedly from a TSA official informing someone else about what policy is. #The TSA rep I spoke to could not even verify that the person mentioned in that letter nor his office even existed.

It may be real, it may not be. #It's irrelevent though, since TSA policy, which is, in fact, what Bob posted above, and is basically what the letter says, is clearly spelled out on the official TSA web site:
http://www.tsa.gov/public/display?content=0900051980069ab5
That might be a more useful thing to print and carry with your instrument.

And I'm with you on the the polite but firm thing. #I'm all standing up for what you actually are entiled to under the rules, but this attitude by some people that being a musician somehow gives you super-secret-agent above-the-law status, or the idea that a musical instrument is somehow like a wallet or purse (which is what the 'part of one's person' thing came from, by the way), or that because and instrument is valuable you deserve special prividges above other passengers, is only going to serve to get more instruments BANNED from airline cabins for all of us.

Jim Hilburn

Jun-22-2006, 2:37pm

I use the Stew-Mac case which is as far as I can tell the smallest possible case. It is about 7" longer than the allowed length. However, when you consider the length-width-height dimensions it comes out about right. It appears that the size allowed is about half the size of an overhead and so my case does jut into the second half, but the part that is in that space is about 7x8x4",not much but it may deprive someone with an overstuffed bag that probably doesn't fit in the size bin from getting it in. But there's still loads of room in that overhead for other items,even on the side where the biggest part of the mandolin is.
I usually only carry on the mando, although I'll have a laptop bag on my next trip.

EdSherry

Jun-22-2006, 2:42pm

The link to the letter I posted was from the American Federation of Musicians Local 1000 (the "traveling local" for us folkie types), so I doubt it's "unsubstantiated" as far as the AFM is concerned. #That said, I agree that it would be better to use the newer one posted on the TSA website. #

Again, I think it's worth printing out a copy and carrying it with you, just in case you meet up with an @#$%^ idiot from a private "security" firm.

If you plan to check your instrument, the Frets.com website has excellent information on packing so as to avoid the perils of "modern baggage handling technology." #See

http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/General/faq.html#Airline

-- Ed

EdSherry

Jun-22-2006, 3:02pm

Oops. #The link to Frets.com above is to an OK brief discussion, but wasn't to the detailed description I had in mind. #Here's the right link:

http://www.frets.com/FRETSPa....g1.html (http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Musician/GenMaint/Packing/packing1.html)

ApK

Jun-22-2006, 3:16pm

Let's assume for a moment that the letter is exactly as it appears, and hasn't been photoshopped a dozen times before it found it's way to local 1000. It very well may be perfectly real. It's still irrelevent. It's just a courtesy letter. It does not make policy. Even if it accurately recites the policy at the time (which it doesn't, since it speaks of taking the instruments on the plane, which is outside the TSA's jurisdiction) that policy could have been changed a dozen times since that letter was written, and there might be valid, temporary increased restrictions in force on the day you travel. And in the event you do run into an uninformed screener at the security checkpoint, why would you want to wave such a thing around when it's so so trivially easy to get correct authoritative information directly from the agency responsible? People are talking about this 'letter' thing like it's some 15th century letter of passage bearing the offical Seal of His Majesty the King, or Stone Tablets handed down from the Mount, and we have SOME people brasenly insisting on their entitlement based on nothing more substantial than 'something he read once.' Geesh people, this is the Information Age. We have toll-free phone numbers and email addresses for everyone from the airport to the TSA to the FAA to the White House. Use them. Get the correct information. Then, in the event you get hassled, you might either, 1) KNOW the real rules and politly ask for a supervisor to clarify the issue, or 2) KNOW that you have no leg to stand on and just nicely ask for a break, and accept the outcome if it doesn't go your way, and be happy and grateful if it does. Either that, or charter your own plane and stay out the way of the rest of us. Grr. I'm done now.

EdSherry

Jun-22-2006, 3:52pm

I posted the link to the TSA-AFM letter because it was the best info I had seen. #ApK has pointed out (correctly) that there is a newer, more authoritative "official" TSA policy, and he's provided a link. #

Great. #Use the new info, rather than the old letter. #I'm all for using up-to-date information, as I acknowledged in an earlier post.

But I confess I don't understand the tone of ApK's last post. #ApK admits that the "new" policy is the same as the policy in the old letter. #The "courtesy letter" may not have "made" policy, but it reflected the then-current (and still current) policy.

Moreover, I would have thought that having a copy of SOMETHING from the TSA (even if it is only an "old" letter) is better than having nothing, especially given the hassles that Bob Denton ran into.

I fully agree that there is a difference between (a) TSA policy and (b) airline policy, and that one should not confuse the two. #The fact that the TSA allows you to carry something through security screening does not mean that the airlines have to let you take it on board.

But I recall coming back from Australia (on Quantas) in 2004 with a didgeridoo (yeah, I know ...), and having the folks at Southwest Airlines in LA want to keep me from carrying it onto the plane to SF because (they said) it could be used as a "weapon." #They wanted me to check it -- not a good thing to do with a fragile instrument in a lightly-padded bag. #Fortunately, I had a copy of the TSA letter with me, and that ended THAT foolishness.

ApK

Jun-22-2006, 9:18pm

My tone came from frustration, and not frustration with you. Sorry about that.

My problem with the letter is that I know (and millions of other people know) that I can load that letter into Photoshop and make it say ANYTHING I want in about 10 minutes. The idea that a passenger would rely on it, or that an airline employee would make decisions based on it blows my mind. The former is mere silliness, the latter would be potentially tragic incompetence. I don't doubt that you got your didgerido (very cool, by the way) on the plane after first being told you couldn't, but I STRONGLY doubt the reason. If stuff could could be brought on to a plane because of a printed photocopy of a letter to someone else, I'll print one out saying the President says I can bring my handgun. I hope no airline employee is that ignorant as to TSA's rules and jurisdiction as to think that that letter, or even the actual TSA policy, somehow means the airline can't prevent you from taking an oversized item in the cabin. It doesn't. They can. I wasn't there with you, I don't know what happened, but if we had a time machine and some mind reading equipment, my money would be on "Geesh, this guy's waving some peice of paper, and is going to make a scene...I'd better see if we can squeeze this thing in somewhere and shut him up."

Bob Denton

Jun-23-2006, 11:07am

In my case, the letter would not have helped because the "red coat" was arrogant, obstinate and stupid. I am sure he would not have bothered to read it. Again, the 3 TSA guys told him about the policy but he was privae security and they had no authority.

Again, the manager was immediatly aware of the policy and apologised profusely.

I do think the letter would have been very useful for the gate agent that claimed I needed to buy a seat. In a worst case, she could have called a supervisor for clarification.

As for ApK, I don't know how much you fly, but for those of us that fly professionally, we tend to be treated well by the airlines, get priority seating and ugrades on both domestic and international flights and my experience was the first time I have had an issue with ground staff.

APK, if you have an issue with getting appropriate seating and/or storage, buy a first class ticket, upgrade or book a seat in the back so you board early. Get to the gate early and stop whining. <G>

david blair

Jun-23-2006, 11:41am

The last time I flew was with America West and was able to carry on my Calton mando case and rectangular fiddle case. On the fourth and last connection home I was asked to check the fiddle, even though the flight was barely full. No problems, but looking back I could have removed the instrument from the case and checked the case. I felt sorry for another fella on the flight with a guitar who was being charged for another seat when arriving in Reno, and the airline had called in the local cops!

Bob Denton

Jun-23-2006, 3:04pm

I'll add America West to my Don't Fly Under Any Circumstances" list. Thanks for the feedback.

Brad Weiss

Jun-24-2006, 7:49am

Just returned from here - Arusha, Tanzania- and for the 10 legs of the roundtrip I had no problem carrying on my F5 TKL case (along with another bag, to boot).

I know people are anxious about this, but I've NEVER had any problem in 3 plus years regularly carrying on cases.