Pine vs. Spruce

[nettleton]

Why is spruce so typically the wood used for soundboards, rather than other soft woods, such as pine. I know that cedar is sometimes used, but that it has a tendency to crack. Is the preference toward spruce an acoustic or structural factor, or both?

Thanks,

--Scott

[Bill Snyder]

I believe spruce is generally preferred for both reasons - acoustic and structural. Several of the Australian builders use King Billy pine which I believe is not like any of the pines found in North America.
Pines and spruces are in the same family - "The Pinaceae family is the largest of the Conifers. Genera contained in the pine family include the fir, larch, spruce, hemlock, cedar and Douglas fir as well as the true pines (genus Pinus ).
You will notice that there are definite opinions about which of the spruces make the best mandolins. Still having to do with acoustics and structural attributes that the luthier or customer prefers.

Bill S.

[crawdad]

I don't know beans about the differences, but all the reputable luthiers and companies that make prized mandolins use some form of spruce. I don't know of anyone who uses pine, so, by rational process of elimination, pine is not an option with me. Spruce has the strength to hardness ratio that keeps it from caving in when used as a top. It can vibrate well and hold its structural integrity when carved properly. Since the most prized mandolins use spruce rather than pine, thats good enough for me. I may experiment with other wood for the backs, like the lacewood back I am now carving, but I am sticking to spruce or red spruce for the top plates. Its a proven winner. Until I find something better, thats what I'll stick with. My philosophy is why bother with inferior materials to save a couple of bucks when the time invested is so precious. Better safe than sorry.

[krishna]

If I remember correct,spruce has the strongest stregth to weight ratio of any wood...

[Greenmando]

My philosophy is why bother with inferior materials to save a couple of bucks when the time invested is so precious. Better safe than sorry.
I agree.
I make fine jewelry on the side. Many people have asked me to use cheap materials to drop the price, I respond with why bother wasting my valuble time working with cr*p.

[Spruce]

"Many people have asked me to use cheap materials to drop the price, I respond with why bother wasting my valuble time working with cr*p."

Price has very little to do with it really...
Good top wood, regardless of species, is gonna cost you roughly the same amount of dough per top.

And a lot of the species that make good mandolins (Port Orford Cedar, Noble Fir, White Fir, and even good Redwood come to mind) are much more difficult to obtain than a good chunk of spruce.

Spruce is the wood of choice because it works, and is readily and reliably obtainable.
And it has a history....

But fine sounding mandolins are being made today with a variety of topwoods, none of which I would classify as "cr*p" (or inexpensive!).
And there are a lot of mandolins out there built with spruce--spruce that I would classify as "cr*p" that never should have made it into an instrument in the first place...

So, I guess my point is that spruce ain't no panacea...
But good wood is...

[krishna]

Spruce,ummm Panacea? Is'nt that a small tourist town just outside Rome??

[Spruce]

Right about now it could be....

[nettleton]

Leave it to a guy named "Spruce" to remind us that the preferred Pinaceae is no Panacea. A panacea, by the way, is a cure-all, a medicine that heals any ailment. Thanks, guys, you've been quite helpful (if only for setting up a wonderful pun in my favor).

[Chris Baird]

I've used (or tried to use) a good many "alternative" top woods and have run into structuaral problems with many of them. I've had problems with redwood, fir, and pine splitting when tested. I'm sure I could have made them thicker but then they would be too stiff. Spruce is most often the right stiffness and flexiblity. I've never had a spruce top split under thumb pressure. I'm sure there are good alternative top woods out there but they are harder to find and quantify than spruce.

[Strado Len]

Don't English builders sometimes refer to spruce as "pine"? I have seen this used in books about acoustic guitars by an Enlish author, referring to the "pine table" (top) of a guitar.

[whistler]

In England, spruce is sometimes referred to as "Swiss pine" or just "pine", for short. But "spruce" is the preferred term nowadays.

Western red cedar (Thuja Plicatis - not to be confused with the true cedars, Cedrus spp.) is quite a popular soundboard wood nowadays. Whereas spruce may take several months of playing in to give the optimum sound, a cedar-topped instrument is said to sound good as soon as it is built. But it is much softer than spruce - I have seen cedar- topped mandolins and guitars with gaping holes worn through the soundboard by the pick. Also, the acoustic quality of a cedar soundboard deteriorates rapidly with age, whilst its spruce counterpart is still improving.

[Ken]

I've used spruce, fir and redwood for tops with no problems, they do need to be graduated differently though. For what it's worth I've also used maple, cherry, and birch for backs, again with no problems.
Ken.

[harwilli55]

A question then. In this day and age of scientific technology, has there not been any documented testing of species of woods for all of those qualities, ie, strength, compression, acoustic sound reproduction, etc?

Harlan

[Dave Cohen]

Harlan, there has. Daniel Haines has some papers on the subject in CASJ. Those are probably the best introduction to the subject. Voichita Bucur has written a good (but very expensive) book on the subject as well.