Kay Bass Repair Question (no mando Content)

[MikeVB]

Just bought a 1966 Kay C-1 Bass that's in pretty good shape (relatively speaking for an old Kay). The original fingerboard was missing and the seller gave me a rosewood replacement board he'd ordered for it.

Unfortunately, when the old board came off it took off a small bit (3/32") of wood from the flat surface of the maple neck in about a 2x2 area three-quarters of the way down the E-string side. So, if I glue the board on there'll be a slight gap a few inches long along the side. One old luthier here said I might want to sand down back of fingerboard to match curve of the neck - but we're talking rosewood here and handsanding to boot. I asked about filling in the "hollow" with bondo and then sanding it flush and then gluing on the fingerboard.

Any advice, warnings, uncontrollable laughter?

[Frank Ford]

Bondo, or a similar fill is OK on an old doghouse like this. But, you could do a better job by smoothing the area, clamping and gluing a bit of wood in there, and leveling before regluing the board.

[Antlurz]

Filling it like that might be an option, but I'd think there are more accepted ways. As far a Bondo, while it's a neat product in a lot of instances, I'd stay away from it here. I'd go to JB Weld before I'd consider Bondo on this project.

How rough is the tearout surface? Got a picture?

Ron

[MikeVB]

Visual

[MikeVB]

Visual 2

[MikeVB]

Last photo.

While I'm asking - what's best finish to put on the rosewood fingerboard to match original rosewood tailpiece - lacquer(sp)?

Also, the edges of top and back are beat up pretty bad and ragged in places. I'd like to get this thing fixed up for playing but also possibly for resale. So, would smoothing out edges of top with bondo be wise? I personally prefer the well-worn appearance of a true-life instrument, but to protect the top from future problems with delaminating I wondered about coating ragged edges with multiple sanded coats of lacquer to sort of seal them down. Comments welcome.

Ditch the bondo idea, at least use a product that was designed for wood.

[Bill Snyder]

If you are going to use a filler, Bondo would be a better choice than most wood fillers. I have used it numerous times on exterior applications where the wood is subject to the extremes of hot, dry Texas summers and wet winters. After several years you would be hard pressed to find the bondo.
Having said that I don't think I would use a filler on the area pictured. There isn't really anything for the filler to grab. I would go along with Mr. Ford and recommend chiselling or routing out the low spot and gluing in a piece of maple then levelling it.
As for the beat up sides I probably wouldn't use filler. If anything I would just smooth them up a bit and put a little shellac on them and call it good.

[MikeVB]

Shellac over lacquer?

I'm sold on patching the neck now that your post reminded me that I own a perfectly good router, and I also have some thin maple somewhere.

Will there be any twisting issues from differential forces with the shallow neck patch if I only do the E-string half? No need to go all the way across, right?

Finish recommendations on fingerboard and neck patch - shellac?

Final question of post: Is there a common length for the fingerboard on a Kay C-1 that anyone might be aware of - I didn't order it and it's might first URB so the board seems pretty close to the bridge to me.

Thanks for all the help. This is fun! I may sell the bass and use proceeds to get more into lutherie work (built a StewMac F5 kit few years ago and would like to do a blackface A like O'Brien's Nugget and build a guitar as well.

[Bill Snyder]

You normally do not put finish on the fingerboard. I might consider ebonizing the fingerboard except that rosewood is such a course grained wood.
If you are sure that the finish is nitro you can use that, but shellac will work for your patches. I would not worry about the maple patch going all the way across, but maybe Frank Ford, John Hamlett or Michael Lewis (or several others) will chime in and tell you different, if they do then listen to them for they know MUCH MORE than I do.

[Antlurz]

Since it shows on the edge, I think a wood patch is by far, your best option.

As smooth as that curve is, you might not even need to route it out. Is the breakout smooth enough that you could just take a very thin piece of wood (the same thickness as the breakout) and bow it into place and then sand the high ends down to flush?

Ron

[MikeVB]

Ron,

Hard to tell from the photo but the depression is actually a tight collection of where about 40-50 some-odd individual chunks of wood ripped out of the neck.

I initially thought about doing something like you're talking about after maybe smoothing out the hole some with my LA block plane. But, I now think the best patch job would be easiest and better looking by taking to it with the router.

Thanks for all the advice, boys. I'll give her a try and post of photo of the patch one day.

[PicknBow]

MikeVB, hopefully all has gone well with your fingerboard replacement by now. Bass fingerboards can be hard to remove sometimes and do take wood with them. Sometimes the pieces that come off can be replaced back into the neck even if you have to cut up the old board into pieces, glue the missing piece back, and then plane the remains of the old board back off. On stubborn boards where cracks start to develope I often cut the extended part of the board off and powerplane the majority of the old board off.(down to where you can't take another pass, then dampen, scrape,and whatever else it takes, while preserving the edges-always)

The length of a newly installed 3/4 size board is 33-1/2". The traditionnal finsh on bass fingerboards (necks as well)was always linseed oil but I could never stand the long lasting smell so I now use walnut oil and wet sand it in with 600 grit as the final step in surfacing the board, then rubbing off as much as possible with clean rags. Good luck with surfacing the radiused side of the board it takes alot of practice and feel and is a topic for another forum. If you have any questions, I would be happy to help by email.

[MikeVB]

Here's my lutherie work. I think it blends pretty well after rubbing it down with pencil lead and 100-grit Hand-paper!

[MikeVB]

Here's the "Big Picture." No, that's not my bass player, but I sure wished he was interested in learning.

I hate to sell this thing cause I'd like to learn to play it, but I figure I could turn a pretty good profit on it and use that as seed money to get into the business of repairing, reselling, and some building. I loved working on this thing!

Any advice on reselling this sucker? I don't think I could eBay it and ship it. What's a fair price? And, I live where the only music ever heard is Hip Hop or P&G-sponsored Country "stuff."

Go to a local bluegrass festival, park in the campground and put a for sale sign on the bass. Chances are it will move.

[MikeVB]

I forgot to mention that what I did on the neck. I cut a 1/8"-thick patch out of maple, traced around it on the neck, and then routed out the area to the depth of the lowest point (roughly 1/16"). Then, after gluing in the patch I planed it down with a LA block plane and sanded it flush. Worked pretty good.

On the splintered off edges around the top and back of the bass I used thin superglue. It soaked right into the raw wood and then to my delight it sealed off the rough wood under a hard, amber-colored surface (never even opened the can of shellac). It worked great, and I think preserved and enhanced the charm of real-life scars that this thing had.

Got action setup pretty good, but the old strings don't stay in tune very well. Only problem is the G string has developed a buzz over last couple days (been hot and very dry compared to hot and muggy when intially setting it up last Fri night). It seems to come from w/in the treble f-hole, and I wonder if it may be related to the endpin (which is hell to pull in and out I've found).

Special thanks to Mr. Frank Ford for advice and answering my PM. If I had any money I'd send it to him.

[soccerdr]

What part of the country do you live in? Are you sure the buzz isn't coming from the bass bar?

Sully

[MikeVB]

Sully,

I live in South Georgia, and I have wondered if it was the bass bar. However, it didn't seem to change any with I adjusted the bar slightly.

[soccerdr]

Mike,

I think you have the bass bar confused with the sound post. The bass bar is on the underneath side of the top directly below the foot of the bridge near the bass f hole. Place a mirror with a light in the f hole to visualize.

South Georgia is a far piece to travel from Maryland. I have been looking for an old Kay to add to my collection. I have three American Standards and an Englehart.

Sully

[MikeVB]

My bad - I meant to say soundpost, not the bass bar. I'm fairly certain it's not emanating from the bass bar.