Rigel and Phoenix owners - tell me about your tone

[Kid Charlemagne]

I've known about these for several years now, and they've always interested me. Lately, I've been vacillating between a Phoenix and a Rigel as a third instrument (got my Old Wave C# and Schwab 5-string keeping me company right now).

The similarities of options (particularly the built-in pickup) are nice, so I don't have to worry so much about that. What I am concerned with is the tone of the instrument (aren't we all?).

The Phoenixes seem to be built to have a very sweet, almost Celtic tone; even the Bluegrass models. Since I play in a style very like Thile's, that tone is very important to me. However, having only heard a Rigel played live by a single musician, I don't know exactly what tones they're voiced for.

My hope would be that a mandolin of that price range would be capable of that sweetness of tone. I would think my string choice would be a significant factor (Thomastik flatwounds, most likely), but I don't have the slightest idea whether to consider these compatible with my style.

I could use some opinions from Rigel and Phoenix owners (particularly of Rigel's G-110 and the Deluxe, Bluegrass, and Jazz Phoenix models) on how they're instruments sound, feel, etc. I've fooled with a CT-110 once, but it was strung up and set up for a loud, brassy kind of sound, very unlike what I want to be able to do.

So... help me spend some money.

[Kevin Briggs]

Love the Phoenix models. I've played an Ultra that could do a whole lot. It had low action but was loud, and played like butter.

[FlawLaw]

Can't go wrong with either. Nonetheless, I would suggest going to the Rigel website and watching the videos of Peter Mix playing the various models if you can. It is very well done. I was particularly fond of the Rigel cylinder back. In my humble opinion, it has the epitome of sweet tone going for it. It may give a better idea of at least what Rigel has to offer.

[Thomas]

Having owned both, I'm surprised by your description of the Phoenix tone. I had 2 bluegrass models and they were obviously true to their name. Loud, woody, plenty of bark. I never thought Celtic when I played them. All Phoenix mandos I have played had low action and played like butter - I'll second that. Rigels, to my ear, would be more versatile and better suited for Celtic than Phoenix, but that's just my humble opinion. I owned A+ and CT-110 models. Both had similar tone. I like Rigel's playability and quality.

[Brad Weiss]

I've played some Rigel's I liked a lot; I LOVE my Phoenix Europa Neoclassical. #Yes, it is sweet, but it is also loud, extremely clear, perfectly balanced, and a joy to play. #And it is a beautful piece of art as well. #Listen to these to get a sense of the tone (though the mandolin is MUCH better than the player #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif)

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=434303

[JGWoods]

Rigel can voice them different ways, so they can be bluegrassy, or celtic(non-bluegrassy?)sounding. I suppose they could make them Thile, or Monroe sounding, but that points to the real source of the tone- the player...
I had a G110, now have a Jethro, and have played a few others, but none that were specifically voiced to emphasize a certain tone.
I like oval holes mostly, and find that a Rigel f hole instrument gives me the best of all worlds. It can be sweet- almost like an oval hole, but will bark too, and anything that has a good bark to it ain't an oval hole so it's a compromise, one I prefer.

[Guitar Jeremy]

All Phoenix mandolins are built by one guy, Rolfe Gerhardt. That matters to me in terms of consistency. I second the recommendation for the Neoclassical.

[judith]

I have a Phoenix Deluxe. Never played a Rigel, so I can't make a comparison. I love the Phoenix - its really easy to play, it has a very woody tone, loud enough, very even across strings. I don't think of it as an instrument that is particularly chosen for Celtic music, though I use it for that, among other types.Rolfe is also really nice to deal with (not that Rigel folks aren't - I just never have). I always recommend trying to find one and play it - there's no substitute for that. Perhaps if you say where you are, someone nearby with a Phoenix will let you come and try it out. I am in Philadelphia. Judith

[JGWoods]

"...I could use some opinions from Rigel and Phoenix owners (particularly of Rigel's G-110 and the Deluxe, Bluegrass, #and Jazz Phoenix models) on how they're instruments sound, feel, etc. #I've fooled with a CT-110 once, but it was strung up and set up for a loud, brassy kind of sound, very unlike what I want to be able to do.

So... help me spend some money.
I played my G110 with Thomastic Mittels for about a year. I loved it for most of that time, then stoppped loving it and put on DRs. I just wanted a different tone after a while, and it certainly made a difference.

Thomastics certainly play great- a delight for the left hand. Tone from the G110 was distinctly diferent than what you get from J74s, EXP 74s etc. which I now prefer. I think your comment of the CT-110 tells it right in that any of these instruments will be hard to evaluate unless they are strung with Thomastics...and that makes it pretty hard to pick a winner.

I have briefly played a few Phoenixes, met Rolfe, and agree with the above owners that they are fine instrumnets, and he's a fine fellow. I'm sticking with my Rigel Jethro. I think it's both sweeter and louder, more capable of covering a lot of tonal territory.

[Pete Braccio]

I really think that you need to play them yourself. That said, here is my experience with them. I've played a couple of Phoenixes that were at Gryphon Strings. I thought that they were great mandolins, but they were not for me. I don't know why, they just didn't say "take em home", which was a good thing since I was broke.

The first time I played a Rigel I didn't like it. The ergonomics of it seemed "off" to me. A year past and I played the exact same Rigel and it knocked my socks off. It felt perfect in my hands as well as sounding great. I bought one a couple of months later and have been happy as a clam since then.

Anyway, both are real nice, but I'd put my money into Rigel at this point. Peter Mix at Rigel is a great guy to work with as well.

Pete

[Pedal Steel Mike]

My two Rigel A+ deluxes (deluxi?) soumd completely different from each other. The different sound holes give them competely differnet tones. The F hole has more bark. The Oval hole has a warmer more intimate sound.

I love them both.

I'd say get the F hole of you want to play bluegrass, and the oval hole for Celtic or classical.

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g194/pedlstlplyr/Rigelmandolins.jpg

[Zoe]

I recently purchased a Phoenix Neoclassical

the tone is ultra sweet, balanced and rich all the way up the neck-
the instrument is truly beautiful in looks and sound


I have only heard a Rigel online- my other dream mandolin is a Rigel Jethro- so I can understand how hard of a decision it is!
but for the price- the Phoenix Neoclassical is giving me everything that I need

Rolfe Gerhardt- the maker of Phoenix mandolins- is a world reknowned master crafter (and extremely nice to boot)
I give the Phoenix my highest recommendation

Sincerely,
Zoe Sandell

[JGWoods]

So- there you have it- buy one of each.

[Thomas]

Hey, I hadn't thought of that. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Ted Eschliman]

So- there you have it- buy one of each.
More "truth" than poetry...

This solution has worked successfully for me. Blue-burst CT-110, and a Phoenix 'Jazz.' Both are my workhorse axes. Couldn't imagine giving either up, they both have their place...

[mandofish]

I had a chance to play a Phoenix a couple of months ago and came away very impressed. Sweet, balanced tone, and terrific playability.

Can't comment on the Rigel, though... the shop I was in didn't have any in stock at the time.

By the way, Kid Charlemagne-- great user name! That's one of my favorite Steely Dan tunes... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Pedal Steel Mike]

If you're going to get 2 mandolins, I suggest one F hole and one oval hole. I think the different sound holes will provide more tonal variety that two of the same style holes with different brands.

[JGWoods]

Agreed Pedal Steel Mike- My minmum mando collection would/will be one oval hole, one f hole.

It's going to be hard to beat my Rigel Jethro and Epiphone Strand pair- they might be the end of MAS.

[Baron Collins-Hill]

ive played a couple of rigel a styles and i have liked them alot, but, as stated below, phoenix's will always be at the top of my list. the moment i picked up a jazz model, i knew i needed one. unfortunately i am 17, so that wont be any time soon. i went to visit rolfe, and hes a great guy who builds great mandolins. im hopefully going to get my a9 set up by him at the beginning of the summer.

baron

[Ed Ashley]

I have two Phoenix's, but have always (also) wanted a Rigel, and someday...but it won't involve leaving the Phoenix behind. Can second every good thing said about playability of each.

[Kid Charlemagne]

Well, that all said, I think I'm probably leaning toward the Phoenix. I think that my tonal preferences would be better served by a good Bluegrass or Jazz, and although I liked the Rigel I played pretty well, they're much more expensive.

Of course, if I had my way, I would (naturally) want one of each.


By the way, Kid Charlemagne - great user name! That's one of my favorite Steely Dan tunes...
Mine, too. I was jazzed when I realized I could play the solos on my Schwab.

[Alex Fields]

How much should a used (but good condition) Phoenix Neoclassical sell for? I'm trying to find a mandolin I can buy and use until my Daley is finished and then sell for what I have in it (or nearly as much--I could take a hundred or two as a "rental charge"). The Neoclassical is at the top of my list because I use extra light strings anyway (my Daley will be voiced for them), but I'm not sure how much I should be willing to pay for one.

[Ed Ashley]

A few years ago I made a tentative effort to sell mine @ 2000, about what I had paid for it, lightly used, turned down a 1750 offer, and then decided to keep it.