Comments on these three banjolins

[kww]

Anyone see anything of note in these three instruments that would make them especially good or bad buys? For those without currency converters handy, the most expensive is about $200 bucks and the cheapest is about $100, and for me, shipping from the UK is a little cheaper than shipping from the US.

Windsor (http://www.pamelasmusic.co.uk/images/Forsale/string/ukes/Bm028.htm)
zither (http://www.pamelasmusic.co.uk/images/Forsale/string/ukes/Bm024.htm)
Windsor-Pixie (http://www.pamelasmusic.co.uk/images/Forsale/string/ukes/Bm026.htm)

When asked to compare the three in terms of reliability and condition, the seller says:

"Bm028 is probably the best bet as it has been overhauled with new vellum etc.
Bm026 is the smaller but loud.
Bm024 is the best made instrument. "

[Ken Berner]

Over the last few weeks, we had two offerings of mandolin banjos on eBay. They were both '20s vintage and of much-respected manufacture. Both bore fair opening bid figures, under $300.00. I would have been proud for you to own one of these, if only to save you from your unhappiness. It is a shame that there is no way to keep sellers from unloading their junk, under the guise of, "I know nothing about musical instruments, but . . . ". I suppose that "buyer beware" will always be the name of the game when buying sight-unseen!

[Bob DeVellis]

Windsors are British-made banjos. Personally, I wouldn't expect too much from any of those instruments but they're cheap enough. Without knowing what you're after it's hard to say how satisfied or dissatisfied you'll be. In my view, getting a mandolin banjo right is a challenge and I think the better builders on their better models came closest. Of the three mandolin banjos I've owned (all now gone with few if any regrets), the least expensive was the one I considered the biggest waste of money. It's also the only one on which I took a loss when I dumped it. Beyond that, I think personal taste plays such a large role that I'm reluctant to make any further suggestion.

[Jim Garber]

The only mandolin banjo I own is one with a small skin head (7 inches) Weymann. For some reason it almost has melodic tone as opposed to only percussiveness.

I would stick with the name brands or else try one of those Goldtones.

Jim

[glauber]

I would find a good dealer and work with him/her. See if someone in the board can recommend one with experience in banjolins or banjos. It may take longer, but it's safer.

The main reason behind my opinion is that banjos are just completely different animals from mandolins, guitars, etc. Most of us here wouldn't be able to tell a good banjo from garbage. And banjolins are still a more specialized niche area.

Maybe you could even try the "banjo ####### (http://www.banjohangout.org/)" for recommendations.

(Gotta love this profanity filter... it left the offensive word in and hashed the harmless one.) http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[kww]

Glauber: that was why I was looking at Pamela's Music. It's been around a while, good range of vintage stuff, and affordable. I haven't got direct experience with them, and would enjoy hearing from anyone that has dealt with them.

[Potosimando]

I paid $200 each for two mando-banjos on ebay (entirely separate sales) a few years ago. #I had to pay a luthier another $80 each (or thereabouts) to set them up, just so that they could be played. #Both sounded like **** after all was said and done (both were nothing more than old junk).

Both had great and believable write-ups on ebay and in pre-bid emails. #I simply gave one away, but keep the other as a reminder not to be so stupid. #I believe the second **** mando-banjo was my last ebay purchase (actually in retrospect the $600 was well spent in that it cured me of ebay-itis, and ultimately/surely saved me much more than $600).

I picked up some awfully nice mandolin and mandolin-family instruments through other means after I stopped wasting all that time and money on ebay.

[Jim M.]

Hey kww, can you explain why you're so hot for a mando-banjo? How about a resonator mando? The Commodium is a serious instrument that sounds a lot better than any mando-banjo I've ever heard, and it can also provide comic "relief" #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

http://www.keithcary.com/commodium/commodium-mando.jpg

Commodium (http://www.keithcary.com/commodium/)

[mandroid]

Goldtone, offers a good variety of both Banjo mandolins and banjo ukes new and ready to go. restringing ukes has been discussed.. for nylon GDAE tuning .. banjo-uke would bark pretty well , 2 wound ,2 plain strings.
Elderly has some good old ones and some fixer-uppers, less Roulette like than ebay

[kww]

Jim,
I have a pretty good idea of how much I can spend and stay married. A brand new Commodium is over the line. I would consider a used one if I saw one for sale. Two points to consider:

1) Anything I buy from the States will cost me about $150 to ship UPS or FedEx, and then I get to pay 33% duty on the cost including shipping. That $600 Commodium became a $1000 Commodium in the blink of an eye.

2) Our average annual salary here is about $10,000. Until the loan on the hotel is paid off, I'm below average.

To all, I agree that Ebay just isn't the place. All of Elderly's affordable ones are sold "as-is", and need neck resets, hot neck pressing, etc. I'm really trying to find something that I can get in my hands for under $400 and doesn't fall apart in my hands. Buying from the UK helps a lot (about $75 difference in shipping costs). Avoiding the famous brands is unfortunately necessary.

[Jim M.]

Okay, now I get it.

I've shipped some internationally, and rather than use UPS or FedEx, I've used the US Postal Service, which can get a 10 pound package to the Antilles for about $35.

I don't know about your customs service, but I've labeled things as "gift" to other countries and gotten it through customs without a charge.

Gryphon, which is near me, has a British mando-banjo for $325. I played it recently and it's in good shape. Neck is straight and it's playable as is. Gryphon is also a very reputable store.

Gryphon mandos (http://www.gryphonstrings.com/inventory/instrument_page.php?Instrument=Mandolin,Mandola,Ma ndolin-Banjo&Query=Mandolin%20Family&Alternate=1)

[mythicfish]

My vote for mando-banjo goes to the Weyman ... the model with the steel support on the back of the pot.

"Hey kww, can you explain why you're so hot for a mando-banjo?"

The answer: Because a little mando-banjo goes a long way... sometimes too long.

Curt

[jim simpson]

Maybe it's to entertain hotel guests. You know the ones, the ones you want to leave!
Eh Mr. Faulty?

[glauber]

Somebody ought to buy the banjo for you, take it, spend some time at the hotel and leave the banjo there. I wish i could.

[kww]

The real answer on why a mando-banjo: market demand keeps costs lower. Makes it a good starter instrument. In a couple years, if I'm happy with my progress, I'll convince my wife to free up a couple grand for a really nice mandolin.

I spend a lot of the day covering the lobby by sitting on the front porch and listening for the phone while I practice my harmonica. I'll practice the mandolin in the same place. It might scare the donkeys, but shouldn't bug the guests too badly.

[Bob DeVellis]

If I had to count on a mandolin-banjo to convince my wife that mandolin-family instruments should be part of our future, I'd be playing a kazoo now. Can't you get a Moon or other simple mandolin for roughly the same cost? Mandolin-banjo can be a fun novelty instrument but it really doesn't give a good sense of the mandolin's capabilities, in my view, and wouldn't get my recommendation as a first mandolin.

[Doug Edwards]

I have the Windsor-Pixie. It plays and sounds just as good as it looks. You might want to pass on this one.

[kww]

Doug: I'm just not quite sure how to interpret your comment. Do you think the Windsor Pyxie is an ugly instrument that plays badly, or an attractive instrument that plays well, but you don't think that this is a good example?

[Doug Edwards]

Just being truthful. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and tone is very subjective as well. It is an interesting coversation piece but not a player.

Five minutes with this would make anyone agree with me.

[Davetnova]

I have both awindsor Whirle (11" head) and a pixie ( agift from someone who knew i liked mandolins0. If you are thinking of getting one to play rather than as a conversation piece, DONT. The Whirle is extremely loud but I would rather play mandolin music on something that sounds as if it might be related to a mandolin, rather than a cute little banjo with extra strings.

[kww]

Davetnova: there is that subjective thing again. If the 11" Whirle sounds like a decent banjo, I'd be happy, even if it doesn't sound much like a mandolin. My musical interests are more in the area of very old blues, so getting a bluegrassy sound isn't really important to me. If it sounds like a child's music box, I wouldn't be very happy.

As an example, if it sounds like this, I wouldn't be happy:
Zither Banjo Solo (http://www.zither-banjo.org/pages/Just%20Sublime.mp3)

[Doug Edwards]

kww,

That sounds WAY better than the Windsor-Pixie I have.

[bluegrassdan]

Anybody have any reviews on the Goldtone line?

[Tony Burns]

the smallest mandolin- mandolin zither or mando-banjo ( depends on who you talk to ) is identicle to a Wallestro that i own -- identicle to a latter picture with a case - its a very small instrument , and yes they play well are are different than a mandolin banjo - but with the leather head they go in and out of tuning like a fiend, which can get frustrating - but fun none the less -- dont think they are worth more than a couple of hundred bucks ( if that ) thou 300 would not surprise me .

[8ch(pl)]

Bernunzio Vintage Instruments has a nice arch top Regina mandolin banjo for (I Think) $275US. This is a reputable dealer in Rochester New York. I feel bad about your experience with ebay, I have been down that road myself.

The one at Bernunzio is open back. I think the built in resonator on the British types like the Windsor amay be unsuited because they are loud and impossible to mute because the resonator will not come off. At least you can have your questions answered by this dealer.

[Ken Berner]

Just to get ahead of the inevitable question; John Bernunzio is a very reputable dealer. I have purchased a couple of instruments from him over the last few years, and he is dependable and honest. I believe that he describes instruments properly and his prices are fair; not to mention his always-interesting inventory.

[glauber]

The Regina (http://www.bernunzio.com/item.php?sku=069550)

[Celtic Saguaro]

Just looking at Bernunzio's website to see what's for sale is educational for anyone interested in banjo family instruments including mandolin banjos.

[kww]

One very interesting aluminum bowlback (http://www.bernunzio.com/item.php?sku=069528) on the site. I'd love to have a soundfile of that one.

I've pretty much given up on buying vintage mandolin banjos sight unseen over the internet. The first experience left such a bad taste in my mouth I just can't summon up the courage to do it again, no matter how reputable a dealer. The amount of bad-mouthing mandolin banjos got on this site left me a bit gun-shy as well.

Right now, my selection list is short. I'll either get http://www.foxtrot.com.br/produtos/foto113p2.jpg

or

http://www.boliviamall.com/catalog/images/IMCHA124_L.jpg

or



http://www.igapost.com/catalog/images/instruments/RJ12N.jpg

I was surprised to find out that the Brazilians consider a four-string mandolin banjo to just be a "banjo."

[Mace]

Bernunzio's is a very reputable dealer; you simply can't go wrong provided you have researched what you are buying. Their prices might be a bit high; however, if you decide to trade in, trade up or consign they maintain a file to insure you get reasonable compensation. However, if you buy something that has been hanging for an extended period of time do not expect it to move quickly if you pass it on.

Another possibility is to acquire one that has a desired tone ring for conversion to 5 string. That will insure a certain value into the future. The Vega White Laydie and Tubaphones are such examples.

[Ken Berner]

Mace, My first Vega Tubaphone was a 1910 (s/n 26725) tenor, which I converted to 5-string with a neck from Wyatt Fawley. I recently acquired a 1922 (s/n 49708) Style S Tubaphone mandolin banjo, which I will leave in original condition. These have wonderful tonal quality and are great-playing instruments that have stood the test of time. I've never owned a Whyte Laydie, but they seem to be in demand, as well.

[Mace]

Someone is about to pick up a tubaphone from that auction site.

[glauber]

I was surprised to find out that the Brazilians consider a four-string mandolin banjo to just be a "banjo."
I wouldn't buy a Brazilian banjo of any form. The banjo is not part of our culture; i have never even seen a banjo in Brazil -- it's something that we associate with old cowboy movies and Oh Suzanna. Even though in the Portuguese language version of Oh Suzanna i knew, the guy plays mandolin.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
This may sound harsh, and there are certainly smart people down there who could make banjos, but you're just as close to the USA, where banjos are native.

If that Brazilian mandolin you have pictured there is Giannini, you can go for that one; Giannini is a good solid brand. Other brands, such as Tonante, Phoenix (sp?), etc, are not so good. Di Georgio guitars are about as good as Gianninis, but i don't know about their mandolins.

Charangos are fun instruments for strumming and singing Andean music; hardly anyone plays melody on them. But they're fun. They're, like, they ukuleles of South America (even the tuning is similar to the uke's). IMHO, they won't be as much fun if you try to make them into mandolins.

The aluminum bowlback will almost certainly sound like the wooden bowlbacks. I believe in this kind of mandolin the top is what defines the sound; the bowl doesn't really vibrate as much as hold the air and reflect sound back to the top.

[kww]

That's a Giannini GBSM3, their mid-range mandolin. There's about a 95% chance of it getting bought by the end of the week.

The ronroco is the other 5% chance.

I don't plan on buying a Brazilian banjo, but they surprised me. What also surprises me is that they are ubiquitous, but you claim not to have seen one. Giannini and Rozini both sell several models, most of them 4 string ukelele/mandolin banjos. Where do they all go?

[glauber]

They probably don't sell a whole lot of those banjos, or maybe they export them. Unless this is a fad that started after i left in 1991, but still i think i'd have heard about it. In Brazil you can't throw a brick into a crowd without hitting someone who plays some kind of instrument, but if someone told me he wanted to play banjo, i'd think there's something wrong with the person.

[Added later:] I did some googling for "banjo Brasil", and found a reference to people playing a small 4-string banjo tuned like a cavaquinho (DGBD one octave above the guitar) for rhythm in "pagode" groups (a kind of rhythm-intense samba played by small acoustic groups). I think that's likely the instrument you saw. This actually makes some sense; they justify the banjo as an African instrument that combines characteristics of the cavaquinho and the tambourin, and that tuning makes it accessible to cavaquinho and guitar players. Plus the added power of the banjo is a good thing when you have a bunch of drums to compete with. It may catch.