Mandolin orchestras

[Wesley]

I always thought that mandolin orchestras were at their peak during the 1910's and 20's. But I have a photo that was reprinted from a local museum. The caption reads - The Waldo Quintet of the Ft Worth Mandolin Club - 1896.

Pictured are 5 guys in tuxs holding two mandolins, a mandola, a mando-cello, a slot-head guitar and a 5 string banjo. And the mandolins are all bowlbacks - I presume from the same maker.

The date is what suprised me. I thought 1896 was a little early for the mandolin orchestras.

[Givson]

The mandolin orchestra craze began in the 1880's after the U.S. concert tour of the Figaro Spanish Students in 1880. Here is a link to the history of mandolin orchestras in the U.S.

http://dlib.nyu.edu/dram/note.cgi?id=27901


Mandolin orchestras are enjoying a strong revival today. I belong to the Munier Mandolin & Guitar Orchesta, and we play original mando orchestra music dating back to the turn of the (20th) century.

[Jim Garber]

The caption reads - The Waldo Quintet of the Ft Worth Mandolin Club - 1896.
Can you post a scan of this photo? Do those bowlbacks have f-holes instead of oval holes? If so, that may give a clue as to the name of the group. Waldo was possibly the first American mandolin maker to use f-holes -- in the 1890s.

I know a guy who is writing an article on this brand and would be interested in seeing this group if that were the case.

Yes, that would a be on the early side but not unheard-of for mandolin groups.

Jim

[Daniel Nestlerode]

Mandolin Orchestras died away during and after WW1. The advent of radio and the availability of inexpensive Victrola-type recorded music players ate deeply into the size of the population who played instruments for entertainment. It's a lot easier to listen to a pro play than it is to play it for yourself. Plus, the pro is usally better than most players. That's why he or she is a pro.

Daniel

[Jim Garber]

Mandolin Orchestras died away during and after WW1.
Not so fast, Daniel. I know it was not a serious craze later one, but there were plenty of existing mandolin orchestras after WWI. For instance, the New York Mandolin Orchestra, of which I was a member for some years, had been in continual existence in one form or another since 1924. The orchestra had elkements of a numbe of orchestras that melded together in the 1950s. Not exaclty a serious craze but there was a steady undercurrent of folks who enjoyed playing in these amateur ensembles.

Many of the current orchestras were based on earlier incarnations -- some even continuously, including the Munier mentioned above, the Milwaukee Mandolin Orchestra and the Dayton Orchestras.

Jim

Jim

[Eugene]

Recorded music certainly changed the face of musical endeavors, but it obviously didn't destroy the whole of organized amateur music making. The popularity and number of organized mandolin groups certainly did drop ca. 1910s to '20s. I think the popularity of mandolin orchestras simply waned in favor of dance bands. For written perspectives of the era, look up:

Hambly, Scott. 1977. Mandolins in the United States since 1880: An Industrial and Sociocultural History of Form. PhD dissertation, University of Pennsylvania.

Ruppa, Paul. 1988. The Mandolin in America after 1880 and the History of Mandolin Orchestras in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. MM thesis, University of Wisconsin, Milwaukee.

Sparks, Paul. 1995. The Classical Mandolin. Clarendon Press, Oxford.

You should be able to access the first two via interlibrary loan, especially if you have access to university libraries.

[Mandobar]

i met some older ladies one day in a music shop. they were having their mandolins worked on by the luthier in residence there. they sat down and told me all about their experience in mandolin orchestras. (i am guessing they were in their 80's), but they explained that it was a good way to socialize with the opposite sex safely in those days. plenty of chaperones to go around, so there were a lot of reasons why they were popular well after WWI.

[Bob DeVellis]

Although this may not be correct, I get the impression that there were really two types of mandolin orchestra (with a lot of shades in between the two extremes). One type included the more serious ensembles, which often were under the directorship of a credentialled conductor. Collegiate, scholastic, and (in larger cities) community mandolin orchestras seem to fit this mold. The other type consisted of less formal ensembles, often established as much for marketing purposes as anything else. Clubs established in smaller towns and at least some of the groups put together by Gibson sales agents may have been of the second type, although I suspect that some of those groups got pretty good and pretty serious. Do others see things breaking down in this way or is this totally artificial? As I said, this is more a general impression than somthing grounded in hard evidence. If my impression is correct, the more formal groups may have gotten an earlier start, before the Gibson marketing machine kicked in, while the less formal community-based clubs may have overtaken them in popularity as the 1910s and 1920s unfolded.

[Daniel Nestlerode]

Not so fast, Daniel. I know it was not a serious craze later on... <snip>
No argument here Jim. #I should have been more clear. #The mandolin orchestra didn't die away completely, much the same way that big jazz bands haven't died away. #

Mandolin Orchestras did, however, lose a great deal of the popularity and many (but not all) simply ceased to exist. #Much the same way that the Big Bands of the 30's and early 40's simply faded out in the late 40's and early 50's in favor of smaller combos that were more friendly to bebop and other less public forms of entertainment like television.

My point is, they fell out of favor with the vast sections of the population that had made them popular. #This constituted the end of an era of sorts.

Daniel

[Darryl Wolfe]

Good post BobD, I believe you nailed it. When you really study some of the old photos it very much appears that some groups are "players" and some are more in line with "holders"

[Jim Garber]

One type included the more serious ensembles, which often were under the directorship of a credentialled conductor. Collegiate, scholastic, and (in larger cities) community mandolin orchestras seem to fit this mold. The other type consisted of less formal ensembles, often established as much for marketing purposes as anything else.
One other (possibly) type was associated with existing organizations with purposes other than solely music. I know the Workman's Circle, a lefty Jewish organization still in existence in NY, had its own orchestra. In fact, there was a small movement, under the auspices of the Jewish Music Alliance, that strove to encourage these amateur orchestras by providing repertoire and arrangements suitable for the instruments and skill levels of the players. There is an article from a book publushed in 1964 called 50 Years of Yiddish Song by Mordecai S. Yardeini that mentions connections with the New York Mandolin Symphony Orchestra and the American Mandolin Orchestra (in New York) as well as the Los Angeles Mandolin Orchestra.

Jim

[Wesley]

Thanks for all of the info guys. I appreciate it.

Jim - I'll try to scan the photo next week. It's actually over at a friends house right now - send me an e-mail if I don't get back to you. Yes - these are F hole mandolins and it looks like they are a matched set if my eyes don't deceive me.

[Mandophile]

Recorded music certainly changed the face of musical endeavors, but it obviously didn't destroy the whole of organized amateur music making. #The popularity and number of organized mandolin groups certainly did drop ca. 1910s to '20s. #I think the popularity of mandolin orchestras simply waned in favor of dance bands. #For written perspectives of the era, look up:

Hambly, Scott. 1977. Mandolins in the United States since 1880: An Industrial and Sociocultural History of Form. PhD dissertation, University of Pennsylvania.

Ruppa, Paul. 1988. The Mandolin in America after 1880 and the History of Mandolin Orchestras in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. MM thesis, University of Wisconsin, Milwaukee.

Sparks, Paul. 1995. The Classical Mandolin. Clarendon Press, Oxford.

You should be able to access the first two via interlibrary loan, especially if you have access to university libraries.
other than Sparkes, I think some of these books might be OP or not avail except in univ. libraries. The popularity of mandolin orchestras depended on location, too. San Francisco's distance from NY, I believe, led to a slightly later 'peak' in the mando craze. (See Sam Adelstein's OP book on reviving the mandolin on the Pacific coast). As the 1st wave of v. young Italian mando players arrived in the friendly city by the bay (c. mid 1920s, long after the 1906 earthquake), mandolin orch. flourished. Some of this is discussed in my recently published book "Mandolins, Like Salami." Those of you in the SF area this weekend--I'll be showing slides from the 40+ photographs in my book; these include several orchestras by the mid-1930s. The S.F. Mandolin Festival (Croatian-American Cultural Center). www.slavonicweb.org or try my website: www.zighibaci.com