View Full Version : recording a cd
bsimmers
Mar-20-2006, 8:54am
I'm recording a cd. I will be trying to sell it when I go out to play. I've never done this before. Do I need to get permission to use songs? Do I have to pay? I have the info. on the writers, etc.
I appreciate any advice.
Bob
ShaneJ
Mar-20-2006, 11:17am
If you plan to record a copyrighted song (and sell the recordings), you have to have permission from whomever owns the rights to do so and pay them. It may be the writer(s) of the song, the publisher, or both. It could also be someone else who just bought the rights.
good discussion here....
http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin....t=33135 (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=12;t=33135)
HogTime
Mar-20-2006, 12:24pm
You can get a license online for 500 (the minimum) to 2500 CDs at:
Harry Fox Agency (http://www.harryfox.com/public/songfile.jsp)
It's about $55 per song per 500 CDs. In other words, 10 cover songs on 500 CDs would be about $550. This fee is for the number of CDs you produce, even if you don't sell them all.
I'm probably doing this in the future for a couple of cover songs on my upcoming (if I live that long) CD. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Good luck,
Doug Edwards
Mar-20-2006, 12:34pm
We used the Harry Fox Agency with our last CD. Quick and easy. One of the songs we used we could not locate an agency to use so we contacted the songwriter direct. Several have said a small a quantity of CD's and unknown as we were not to worry about copywriting, but it's the right thing to do.
Kind of cool, our group recording "Long Black Train" is mentioned on the CMT's website on the Josh Turner html (just a mention of several groups that recorded the song).
I´m in a band, and we´re in the proces of recording a demo-CD. It´s not meant to be commercial, we´re just going to hand it out to people as a kind of business card - promotion if you like - and I wonder how copyright on original songs is working then?
So far we have only been recording material in the public domaine (traditionals), but we have a few original songs in sight we´d like to cut.
Doug, you mentioned something about small quantity: who decides when it´s a small quantity? I´ve always thought that copyright = copyright - end of discussion.
I´d love it if there were some kind of a of "free ride" for little unknown bands, like ourselves, but honestly I doubt it.
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Søren
otterly2k
Mar-20-2006, 1:52pm
As I understand it, it's up to whoever is holding the rights to the piece. To cover your @$$ legally, you need what's called a mechanical license... essentially, this is a contract between you and the person/party who holds the rights to the piece, specifying that they are giving you permission to record it and print [X] number of copies, and stating what they expect in exchange. Usually it will be some amount of money per cd copy that you print (not sell, print). It is also possible that the party that holds the rights can waive payment. And occasionally they do. But it's up to them, not to you. Even as a small group, you are bound by the same laws.
In my experience, sometimes small scale songwriters will waive a fee (e.g. if they're not trying to make a living at it) and just ask for a few copies of the recording. Also, sometimes the really big wigs can't be bothered with your 1000 copies of their song. Sometimes is nearly impossible to figure out who holds the rights and/or they don't get back to you...But you have to do it above board, and make sure you have documentation for each piece of music. If you can't reach them, make sure your efforts are documented (e.g. certified letters and the like). You may need to show this to the duplication company before they'll press your cd. And you want to have copies of this stuff just in case.
KE
Doug Edwards
Mar-20-2006, 2:04pm
Doug, you mentioned something about small quantity: who decides when it´s a small quantity? I´ve always thought that copyright = copyright - end of discussion.
I´d love it if there were some kind of a of "free ride" for little unknown bands, like ourselves, but honestly I doubt it.
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Søren
I agree. If you're using someone else's stuff you need to do the right thing and pay for its use. We've just had other groups try to rationalize their non-compliance by approaching it from a quantity and exposure slant.
"You can never do wrong by doing the right thing." de
LimuHead
Mar-21-2006, 12:50pm
I know this doesn't relate to your question, but I generally go with Public Domain (PD) songs, or write my own tunes. It sure beats the hassle of messing with mechanical rights, and also helps to enrich and help the tradition grow instead of just adding to the number of times a popular tune has been recorded.
Just my $0.25US. (Inflation! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif )
fatt-dad
Mar-21-2006, 1:43pm
Fair warning - Again, I'm no expert.
I had a neighbor and we used to discuss this stuff. There are two components to this overall question. One is to pay to reproduce and the other is to get permission to even use the tune. Apparently they're not the same. For example, if you wanted to make a disk to sell for a non-profit organization to promote smoking, you would have to make sure that the person that holds the copyright was o.k. with their song/tune being used in this fashion.
fatt not-to-confuse dad
sirmando
Mar-21-2006, 3:55pm
Not to butt in a all but how do you find the public domain songs? Or where sould I go to get them?
farmerjones
Mar-21-2006, 4:12pm
I know this doesn't relate to your question, but I generally go with Public Domain (PD) songs, or write my own tunes. #It sure beats the hassle of messing with mechanical rights, and also helps to enrich and help the tradition grow instead of just adding to the number of times a popular tune has been recorded.
Just my $0.25US. #(Inflation! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif )
Yep, if you're selling yourself, cover the few, write/compose the many. By covering one, you're showing folks you an pay tribute. But in the end you really want to sell yourself and your band. Another route would be to know a writer and work out a deal with him or her to perform thier tunes.
F Y I Public Domain info and unoffical list (http://www.pdinfo.com/)
Sir, good question!
As I se it, some performing artists have credited themselves for traditional/public domain material (Pete Seeger, Harry Belafonte and others) but as I see it they only "copyrighted" their specific arrangements or version of lyrics - and I don´t really see how they can do that. True Folk Music (= public domain) is no ones property - or, if you like, everyones property, and you can do with it what you want.
That doesn´t really answer your question, I know, but whenever I see a song/tune listed as a Traditional, be it on a record or anywhere else, I get that feeling that it´s okay to make it your own in whatever way you want it.
Yes, sometimes it´s a grey zone, but Jeez, do we steal in this business?
edit: farmerjones, I just clicked that public domain info link you listed, and now I see why people, according to US copyright laws, can copyright their own version of a PD-song. I may not agree, but sure accept it as a fact.
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Søren
mike_c
Mar-23-2006, 11:45am
another thing to consider is that a musician or group may put their name on a song...but that does not nesasarily mean they wrote it..it means it's their version of the song...the song could be a old public domain song...
HogTime
Mar-24-2006, 10:13pm
There are two components to this overall question. One is to pay to reproduce and the other is to get permission to even use the tune. Apparently they're not the same.
It's my understanding that the writer of a song cannot deny you permission to record it, if you pay the current "going rate" to record it. It's caused "compulsory licensing". Once a song has been performed publicly (live, radio, etc.) anyone can record it just by paying the current fee. Performing it in a play, etc. is a different situation.
withak
Mar-26-2006, 10:41am
I´m in a band, and we´re in the proces of recording a demo-CD. It´s not meant to be commercial, we´re just going to hand it out to people as a kind of business card - promotion if you like - and I wonder how copyright on original songs is working then?
So far we have only been recording material in the public domaine (traditionals), but we have a few original songs in sight we´d like to cut.
That's still commercial use. Even if you aren't selling it for money, just giving it away for free is publicity that you will be profiting from (hopefully http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif ) in some way.
If by 'original songs' you mean ones that the band wrote, then you can do whatever you want with them because they are yours. In that case, you should probably find one of the other threads on registering the recording with the Library of Congress too. If you meant songs that other people wrote (non-PD), then you have to pay the composer, but you don't have to get permission. You only need permission to use someones else's recording directly by sampling it.
As far as the number of copies go, it depends. For a song listed by HFA, there is no minimum. For a song not listed there where you have to get in touch with the copyright holder directly then it is up to them. They may not ask for anything if it's only a few (whatever that might mean) copies being made. Or they may not ask for anything even if it's a lot of copies; they may just be glad for the exposure.
withak, of course you´re right; giving the demo away for free IS promotion and publicity - and thus commercial.
By "originals" I mean songs written by others. We have a few songs of our own in the band, but they´re not ready for the studio.
I´m not sure it would do me any good to register them at the Library of Congress though, since I´m in Denmark - he.
HFA won´t do me any good either - it´s only for people resident in the US, and besides, the songs I´m looking for (or rather the copyrights of those songs) aren´t listed at HFA.
I have approached Warner Music UK that - maybe - holds the rights, but they haven´t gotten back to me sofar. (2 weeks). And to be honest, I doubt they ever will - most likely they can´t be bothered with such small business.
However, I do respect the copyrights, so it may just be bad luck.
HFA seems like a good thing for you Americans, but I don´t think there is anything like it on our side of the pond.
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Søren
withak
Mar-26-2006, 11:04pm
HFA seems like a good thing for you Americans, but I don´t think there is anything like it on our side of the pond.
You'll have to do whatever Denmark copyright law says then, whatever that might be.
You might start here (http://www.koda.dk/). I can tell that it has something to do with copyright, but that's where my Danish runs out. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif