Thumb/fingerpicks

[glauber]

Dangit, there seems to be as much variation with finger and thumbpicks as there are with flatpicks.

I would like to try thumb and fingerpicks on mandolin. What works? I think i'm looking for plastic ones, rather than metal, but other than that, i have no idea.

Thanks for any suggestions that may narrow the field a little.

glauber http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/coffee.gif

[glauber]

Initial research: the Folk of the Wood (http://folkofthewood.com/page5318.htm) fingerpicking tutorial recommends thin (0.18) Dunlop brass fingerpicks and small plastic Dunlop thumbpick.

http://folkofthewood.com/Images11/mandopickdunlopfingert.jpg

[R. Kane]

I use metal dunlops and/or propiks on two fingers and a golden gate plastic thumbpick. But that's just what I 'm accustomed to from playing with pick on guitars. The propiks allow you to feel the string.

If you're just starting out, plastic all the way around is the better way to go: easier on your fingers and instrument, and the tone is better balanced. A plastic pick is easily shaped for your finger by dipping it in hot (not boiling) water for a few seconds and jamming it onto your finger (don't overdo it or you'll have a pick that looks like the flattened nose that Woody Allen tried to clone in "Sleeper). Yes, it hurts, but there is no other way. While you're at it, you will also want to shape the curve over the tip of the pick to lay back across your finger.

[Jacob]

This is just my personal opinion based on my guitar, banjo, octave mandolin and mandola playing.
My experience with plastic finger picks is that they produce tone that lacks definition and clarity.
I greatly prefer metal finger picks.
My all time favorites are Propik "Fingertone" Nickel Split Wrap Fingerpicks (http://www.elderly.com/accessories/items/PK47SP.htm).
The split wrap and the open pad design holds them comfortably on your finger.
To my ears, metal thumbpicks generate a much too harsh sound on wound strings.
My favorite thumbpicks are Herco Flex 52 Blue Nylon (http://www.elderly.com/accessories/items/PK3.htm).
The trick is to try different ones and see what suits your thumb, fingers and ears.

[mandroid]

Herco x heavy thumb/flatpick perhaps, you can grip it with index finger ,for tremolos, 0r not, for other techniques.
try out 'alaska picks' too, theyre a tubular finger pick kind of like an extra,unchewed, fingernail, so pinching or downstrokes both work.
plastic common there is a brass variant too, not as well distributed, most of the sales is the plastic ones[several fingertip sizes]

[glauber]

Thanks for the opinions, keep them coming! I'm especially interested in hearing from people who play with this kind of pick.

So many interesting looking toys, so little time!

[Jacob]

Another option is to use a flatpick held between thumb and index finger and fingerpicks on middle and ring fingers.
I use thumbpick and finger picks on index, middle and ring fingers for guitar, but thumbpick and fingerpicks on only index and middle fingers for banjo and mandolin family.

[glauber]

Jacob, what kinds do you use for mandolin?

[Jacob]

I almost always play mandolin with a flat pick, but on very rare occasions I use the Propik fingerpicks and Herco thumbpick.

[glauber]

Thanks, i see you had already said which ones, with links even. Thanks again, sorry i didn't relate the 2 posts. Of all the ones i've seen pictures for, i'm tending to go with the ones you mentioned.

The idea is to get something that's usable, to see if this style would work for me. I have several years of fingerpicking on classical guitar before i degenerated into a flute player. I've never liked flatpicks; i'm just getting to the point that i'm beginning to be comfortable with a flatpick on mandolin, but who knows, maybe fingerpicking works better for me. Tremolo could be a problem. I know theoretically how to do a tremolo on classical guitar (using thumb and 2 fingers) but i haven't mastered it.

[otterly2k]

Glauber- I am a fingerpicker when it comes to guitar, and have used (for YEARS) the Herco thumbpicks that essentially look like a flatpick with a loop on them (probably the same one that mandroid mentions). I like the heavy ones... mediums are too thin for me. And I like the versatility of being able to go back and forth between fingerpicking and flatpicking that they offer (a simple matter of changing hand posture on the fly with these).

re: fingerpicks... I just let my fingernails grow out a little bit beyond the pad of my finger, and keep them there. I much prefer that to the clicky feeling of metal or plastic pick material between my fingers as I move them. It's more organic/natural feeling to me. Has the added benefit of not clicking so much when it hits the string too, as I find to be true of the metal fingerpicks.

[glauber]

I used to keep my R.H. fingernails long when i played guitar. The only problem is when they break, it takes a while to grow back.

[Jacob]

I prefer the feel and tone of finger style with no picks, just thumb and fingernails.
But, this doesn't produce enough volume for unamplified ensemble playing, so out come the picks.

[otterly2k]

Yeah, glauber... it does take some active maintenance. Also there's now stuff you can put on them to stregnthen the nail and/or nutritional supplements that can help with that so they don't break. Again.. they don't have to be super long... just long enough to clear the fingerpad.

btw, here's a picture of the Herco flatpick/thumbpicks

[otterly2k]

It just occurred to me that another reason I like these is that it allows a (for me) more relaxed RH posture. #With one of these on, my thumb is parallel to the strings (and the pick part sticks out to catch the string)-- and my fingers curve around to pluck the strings. #Without a thumbpick, you have to curve your wrist and hand so that the thumb comes in close to perpendicular to the string, and the fingers are more extended. #Technique-wise, the latter is probably what's taught as good technique in classical. #But since I wasn't trained that way, I've adopted a style that works for me with the tools I like to use.

I can get great volume this way too.
YMMV

[glauber]

I prefer the feel and tone of finger style with no picks, just thumb and fingernails.
But, this doesn't produce enough volume for unamplified ensemble playing, so out come the picks.
I agree, on both counts. I think a standard mandolin doesn't have enough spacing between the courses to allow you to dig in enough; the short high-tension strings don't help either.

[glauber]

Otterly, i'm going to try the Herco too, for sure.

I just thought something else about long fingernails: i wear contacts now, ouch! "could poke an eye out", as every Mom is fond of saying.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[otterly2k]

Look... millions of women with superlong fingernails manage to deal with contacts without poking their eyes out. I'm just talking about a tiny little crescent. I'm sure you can handle it!
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[glauber]

Otterly, LOL!

This thread is great! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Jacob]

You could always try mizrabs - sitar finger picks.
They work in both up and down directions.
You could do index finger tremolo Irish tenor banjo style.
Someday I'll try them.
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0002ZQQBU.01-A3B0TNXPC1VGKW._SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/3a/Mizrabfinger.jpeg/180px-Mizrabfinger.jpeg

[otterly2k]

jacob...those are just scary!
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

[Bertram Henze]

I am with those who favor fingernails, mostly because:

1. I frequently change between flatpicking (tunes) and fingerpicking (songs) - no time for tediously putting on and off many picks (and losing them on the way).

2. My hand position is far from perpendicular with the strings when fingerpicking, because I anchor my pinky, which is the shortest finger on my hand, unfortunately. So - when my fingers strike the strings, they do so assymmetrical, with the right edge, that is. I haven't seen any fingerpicks wich support that so far.

Bottom line: I grow fingernails moderately to just let them stand out, like Karen described them, but I cut them to be asymmetric (right edge long, left edge very short). I had to try several shapes until I found out how to avoid breaking them. This way they can even serve as emergency toothpicks, but still I don't poke my eyes out when putting on my glasses (8#

For the thumb, I use a large Dunlop thumbpick.
As for volume, this setup is loud enough to be audible and soft enough not to drown my own voice (which I accompany).

Bertram

[mandroid]

I took some round nose pliers and small files,to metal fingerpicks, and shaped them so as to strike the string squarely on upstrokes , inspite of the fact that natural hand position was not .
hot ware works ot the thermo plastic ones, as I recall Radim Zinkel straightens out plastic finger picks to tremolo with a finger, while the harmony is played with the thumb.

[glauber]

Nose pliers! Ouch! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[Jacob]

Index finger tremolo should be possible with the picks used on Portuguese guitarra.
Scroll down here (http://www.fernandezmusic.com/Portuguesemethodpage2.html) for details and pictures.

[mandroid]

yea, theyre made for bending, no grippy teeth marks.. needlenose have square face grippy textured..
then theres Hog-ring pliers theres a real bodypiercing !

[Arto]

When Radim is playing double tremolo with his fingerpicks, is he picking with finger & thumb movement, or keeping finger and thumb "fixed" and moving whole hand? (hope you get what I mean)

curious,
Arto