Refret basics

[ngzcaz]

Tomorrow I plan to start refretting a fairly
inexpensive mandolin. Any tips on how to remove
the old frets ? Prying up and /or tapping them in the
opposite direction of the tang seems logical ? How
does one know which way the tang runs ? Is there
a certain direction they are normally installed ?

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[sunburst]

Most frets are driven straight down into the fret slot, therefore the direction of the tang is down. To remove them, pull them up. You need the correct tools. I heat the old frets with a house-hold iron to help avoid pulling too many chips out of the fingerboard. Frets.com (http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier/Technique/Guitar/Frets/D35Refret/D35refret1.html)
will give you all the information available without a demonstration. It wouldn't hurt to watch someone do a refret before trying it.

[MikeB]

As a total amateur, I've done everything to frets except replacing them. #But, I'm working up the courage for when the time comes.

I was thinking that putting a slight backwards pressure (convex on the fret side) on the neck would ease up the tension on those tangs, making pulling them a little easier. #Is this wrong thinking?

Also, dressing the ends of new frets seems like a daunting task to me. Filing without gouging the wood...how do you accomplish that? I look at good job (like on my Collings instruments) and I don't see how you get the frets the same level as the board and still keep a nice crisp edge.

I totally believe good luthiers are worth every penny they get.

[sunburst]

Mike, I wouldn't say your idea of opening up the slots by bowing the neck is wrong thinking, but I'd say don't bother. You can't flex the neck enough to make any difference.
As for your question about filing the fret ends without damaging the board, you need a file, or files, with the corners ground "safe". That means you have a smooth ground edge on the file where the corner used to be so it can slide smoothly on the fingerboard next to the fret with no damage.
The other more important thing you need is....practice! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[MikeB]

The other more important thing you need is....practice!

Um...Hey, Sunburst, do you have an old mandolin lying around I could practice on? I DO have one of those files--from Stew-Mac. #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Truly, thanks for the quick response. #This site is SO great, but you in particular are always quick to jump in with your very sage advice. #Thank you. #Nothing like tossing off a question on a Sunday morning, and getting a reply in 10 minutes!

[MikeB]

Hey, Sunburst, I just reread your first post above...would't heating the frets make them tighter due to heat expansion? Or is there glue involved? (I'm not sure I'll EVER get the nerve to refret anything...)???

[sunburst]

Mike, Heating the frets does several things. Actually, it heats the adjacent wood and THAT does several things. First of all, heat plasticizes wood so that the little bumps on the fret tang can sort of push the wood fibers aside on the way out rather than lift them out as chips. If there is glue in the slot helping the fret stay in, the heat will melt it. The heat also liquifies some of the oils in the wood and lubes the fret tangs a little so they'll pull out better.
As for a practice mando, I bet somebody on this board has one of those old Loar things they'd let you use http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[MikeB]

Hey, here's what I'm thinking, Sunburst (wow, is that your real name?)...I talk to Elderly Instruments, see if they still have that old Loar F5 for sale (the dang thing must be 80 years old, or better! #It's BOUND to need frets, don't you think?), I offer to do a fret job--FOR FREE! #How can they turn that down?!?

Then, instead of the slow old house-hold iron, I use a nifty propane torch (carefully, of course), heat up the whole neck, and just jerk out those worn out old frets, ZIPPO!

I get much needed practice and they get brand spanking new frets on an old mandolin, raising its value enormously, I'm sure. #Win, win! # Heck, I'd even saw off that silly fret board extension for them--for FREE!!http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[Luthier]

This is just another method I have found works too.
I was never a big fan of heating the frets until I have removed one and have seen how they were put in. #I always start at the end, get a small hold by the end of the fret to begin with, use a rocking motion and work your way across the fingerboard and go slow. #
A piece of masking tape layed down on each side of the fret will also hold any chips that do happen to be pulled out by the tang. #You can lift the tape back after the fret is removed and put a dab of glue under any chips that may have come up. #When I replace the frets, I try to line up the tangs away from where they were on the previous fret.

Here is a nifty little gadget too for the ends and the angle. #My buddy turned me on to this about 3 years ago. #Its tough leading a sheltered life....lol
(thanks Sully)

Don

[MikeB]

Hey, Luthier, that is a nifty gadget! #It looks like just the thing when you can hold the fretboard in your hand like that. #For the angle part, I assume you turn the tool around, remove the tape (or whatever that is covering the outside) and zippo, you got it.

But, what about on a finished instrument? #Won't that thing file bindings and all?

[Mando Medic]

I do tons of fret jobs and I always heat the frets with a 35 watt soldering pencil before I pull the frets with a set of small nippers that have had the face ground flat. I also have a little eyedropper that I have distilled water in that I squirt a little water around the fret before I touch the soldering pencil to the fret. This causes some steam and hot water, which I feel softens the wood just a little bit and it eliminates chipping. I use the soldering pencil because sometimes the frets are glued in and this releases the glue. Even though the frets might not be glued in, it breaks any seal that might have occurred with finger bound oils, polishes or time and allows the water that I add to steam and helps release the tang from the slot. Kenc

[Luthier]

Hey Mike, Thanks but I can't take credit for the idea. A guy that took the mandolin making workshop once showed it to me. #It is great and I use it on new fretboards. #
That isn't tape. #It is just the color of the file and the light reflection. There is a kerf placed in the board to accept the file#and the board is cut at a 30 degree angle. #If you simply change the way you hold the jig, it does the angle. #I also need to point out the fingerboard is normally held down in a vice or with double backed tape. #It is a cool fret filing jig.

Don

[dasspunk]

No mention of dealing with a bound fretboard here... anyone like to offer up some advide on dealing with binding?

[Luthier]

You have to be careful with the bound fingerboard. #Heating the frets can cause some problems IMHO with a bound finger board. Let's assume the fingerboard is bound and we are replacing frets. #The slot must be cleaned out. There are two ways the frets can be placed in. #A fingerboard could have the frets placed in and then be bound or the finger board can have frets placed in after the finger board is bound. #In the second case, the fret will need to be nipped off. #In other words, a pair of nippers removes the tang of the fret on each end and is then placed into the slot. In the case of a bound finger board, that has had the frets "nipped", I just file the finger board holding the file on about a 30 degree angle. #A small ammount of the binding will come off in the process.

Don