Bluegrass "G" chord

[johnwalser]

I play a wide variety of music on the mandolin and now want to learn to play bluegrass on this wonderfully versatile instrument we all love. I do not have long fingers (stubby would describe them best) and without surgery, can see no way in the world I could do what is described on DVDs and books as a Bluegrass "G" chord. Is it possible to play bluegrass rhythm chop using alternative chord forms that my fingers are better suited to? I have enclosed a graphic to show what my fingers will do as opposed to what I feel no amount of stretching exercises would allow me to accomplish.
John

[Mando4Life]

how about the two finger G and use pinky and ring to mute/chop all strings...takes some practice...but it can work...just a thought.

WBL

[ShaneJ]

Or this version using middle finger to cover the D & A strings at 3rd fret (stubby is an asset here!). http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Leaves out the pinky and involves only the other 3 fingers that way, and no open strings to mute.

Not really a "chord" since it's only 2 notes (D & G). In the guitar world, it's a "power chord". Works for both major and minor since there's no 3rd or flatted 3rd. Just 1 & 5.

[R. Kane]

My initial response is that it took me 3 months of trying daily to get the chop G. My fingers are short too, and besides that I've had hand surgery that tightened the web between my fingers (actually, I took up playing guitar and mandolin as PT). More to the point, this chord isn't meant to ring out like an open chord, so some approximation is accceptable, particularly at first. You will get it if you persevere. Then try alternating between the G and the D chops, having your index barre at 2 on the E and A strings and moving only your middle and ring fingers. I guarantee this too is possible, and it makes you so much faster in the changes.

My second response is try this one:
ring #G4
pinky D5
index A2
middle E3
this version doubles up the B note instead of the D. Sounds pretty much the same, but not as fast to change.

[Jim Yates]

I've had a few students who've had some trouble with the regular G chord, mostly because of short fingers, not stubby ones. They have used the 4523 chord suggested by Arcane with some success. This is to get them playing in a jam right away. I have urged them to keep practising the 7523 form.

[ToneDeaf]

When chopping, I sometimes just play (lo to hi) 755x, esp. if the next change is coming quickly.

After five plus years of trying, I'm just now getting proficient at hitting the 7452 D quickly, so please keep practicing the hard chord shapes. I'm proof that it will pay off, sooner or later.

[SternART]

Yep takes awhile..keep tryin'......Grisman has small hands

[dasspunk]

The classic G chop chord is difficult for everyone at first... stubby or no... but as I personally would consider it a necessity, I'd have to recommend it's continued pursuit. So much of Bluegrass mandolin comes straight out of that position.

That said, feel free to prove me wrong... though who would you brag about that to? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Tom C]

Whos fingers are on the bottm right side of Tone Poets that are stretching 15 ####### frets?
http://www.dawgnet.com/acd_html/ACDCDpages/ACD-62.jpg

[Ken Sager]

Probably Mike Marshall. He has huge hands.

[FlawLaw]

I have tiny little fingers and it took me a while. daily practice, but one day it does worked, so I would recommend trying the traditional bluegrass G chord.

[jbrwky]

Don't fret. You can pull it off. Just keep hammering on it till it's right. Sometimes you gotta just slide into these things.

[bsimmers]

When I took my lesson from Herschel, he said he only hits the top three sets of strings on a chop anyhow.
Index finger, 2nd fret, A string
Middle finger, 4th fret, G string
Ring finger, 5th fret, D string
Don't hit the E string, or deaden it.
The chord is movable.
Any questions, go to Herschel. He has short fingers, and he can play the fire out of a mandolin!

[good_ol_al_61]

John:

How about a bar chord? 7-9-10-10. I use it often.

[Flowerpot]

If you want something quick and dirty to use while you work on stretches, then you can play only the two bass strings (5th fret and 7th fret) to get a decent approximation of the chop sound. Properly executed, the full chop chord will have the vast majority of the volume coming from the two bass strings anyway.

But yes, that position is an important one, so you need to keep trying. Hint: start in B where the fret spacing is shorter, and practice chop chords there until you're comfortable... move back a fret into B flat, then into A, over a period of weeks. See how far you get.

Believe it or not, after years and years of pinky-stretching mandolin work, my left pinky is measurably longer than the right. Freaky, cause I didn't start as a kid. But I fool you not, my left pinky has either grown or stretched out to where it's longer than it was 15 years ago. (The G chop seemed absolutely painful when I first started.)

[Dennis Schubert]

Play it up higher on the neck, using the 3-string finger chop position commonly used for C and D, don't hit the first string at all...

G = 12-9-10-x
C = 5-2-3-x
D = 7-4-5-x

(frets to play, on strings 4-3-2-1)

[johnwalser]

I would like to thank everyone for their suggestions. I should have mentioned I had played guitar for 15 years and banjo for 10 years before taking up mandolin almost 5 years ago. I am not new to fretted instruments and at 61 years old, perhaps I have even lost flexibility in my hands. I have been trying for several months to accomplish the 7523 and am no closer than when I started. If I could have Mike Marshall's finger length (I saw him at LoarFest switching smoothly from mandolin to mandolin/cello), I would have probably stayed with guitar. My finger length is just far more suited to the shorter scale length of mandolins, but possibly will always limit certain chord possibilities.

Why would a 4-5-2-3 (bgbg non-chord) or 7-9-10-10 (dbgd) be superior to 4-5-5-7 (bgdb)?

BTW, I took numerous lessons with Michael Lampert (jazz player) and his fingers are shorter than mine. He uses triads quite a bit because of this, but I just never liked the sound of them or got comfortabe with skipping strings with pic.

John

[Jim Broyles]

Just my opinion as a musician with way more experience on guitar than on mandolin, but to my ear, too many thirds thin out a chord. To me, the B on top along with the B on the bottom in the 4-5-5-7 configuration sounds too shrill. The 7-9-10-10 G chord you mention is okay, but I like it without the top D note. This makes it the same as X-O-2-3, but you can chop it better due to no open strings. I don't think 4-5-2-3 sounds good at all.
Personally, I chop an F (different thread, I know http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif ) 5-3-O-1 and just palm mute. The open A does not ring out the way I do it.

[ToneDeaf]

John, one importance of learning it in a bluegrass context is that the shape forms a "base" for playing many bluegrass breaks. It's essential for Monroe style. The "Playing Up the Neck" lesson here the cafe can demonstrate it better than I can explain it.

[Salty Dog]

I also started getting serious about the mandolin at about 60 years of age and had considerable difficulty mastering the traditional G chop chord. #The way I did it was to learn key of G songs I knew in the key of A (up two frets from the G chord) or B (up two more frets). #This also helped my flexibility at jams as people often play songs that I think are key of G songs (such as "I Saw The Light" - Hank wrote it in the key of G as I have the original song book) in the key of A. #Once you master the "A D E" chord pattern in the key of A, you'll be surprised how easy it is (even with short fingers like mine) to slide down two frets and stretch just a little more. #Go for the gold and you'll be happier in the end. #Good luck.

[SurebetVA]

I usually use the 4557 combination and I don't think it sounds to shrill, especially if you are chopping the chord. It's my favorit G chord because of wrist pain as much or more than having short fingers. I'm probably not going to be invited to play on the Opry though. What surprises me is the number of people who insist on the "Bluegrass" G and D Chords when the D Chord (7452 or DF#DF#) isn't even a complete chord because it's missing the A note (5th). I much prefer 2445 or AF#DA even though it has two fifths in it to one that doesn't have any. Just my personal opinion. It also makes an easy slide to G 4557 and A 2245 or C 5578.

[kvk]

Play in A for a while (or B if you have to, then A) then go to G.

[jbrwky]

How about 7-9-10-7. fingers are 1-3-4-2

[bradeinhorn]

Not going to say much, but I'm another much more long time guitarist to mando convert with TINY hands. Couldn't play a good clean G chop for a while. remember the day you could all of a sudden play barre chords on guitar? It's sort of like that (but doesn't take as long!). Wait on that. You are are really going to want it, so don't fake your way around it.

B

[Rex]

I played the standard G chop chord for over 12 years. It almost wrecked my little finger those last couple of years playing. It took a couple more years of hardly playing the mando at all and now I'm mostly healed up. I chop on three string chords now. They are just for rhythmn anyway. I need that pinkie for melody work. I do have some arthritis in my hands so this might not be a concern for everybody. I'm 45 now. When I was younger the big G chord was no problem at all. Currently I play 7 9 10 X using fingers
1 3 4 for the G. The C chord that goes along with this is
5 5 7 X using fingers 1 1 3. The D chord is the C moved up 2 frets. Sounds ok to my ear.