View Full Version : Breedlove OO Strings and upgrades
Hello, my first post, A question for the Breedlove owners:
If you own (or owned) an Oval hole Breedlove, what strings were you happiest with and why?
And for those of you who tried upgrades - cast TPs, different bridges, etc.- which ones seemed to work well, and which made little or no difference?
I've got a used Quartz OO on the way and will need new strings now, and who knows, perhaps an upgrade or two in the future?
TIA
Hello MOJO. I am a first timer as well. Been following the msg. board for about a year and feel I may now be able to contribute something worthwhile rather than just absorbing invaluable information.
I too have a Breedlove OO and have done a fair amount of experimenting with accessories. The best investment to date has been a Tone Guard. It brought out the volume and tone I was searching for.
As far as strings go... I have tried about 5-6 brands/types and have settled on the Sam Bush Monels. Strings are a very subjective thing, so you'll probably try a bunch until you find the "right" string for you.
I have also added a Siren brand arm rest. I found that I can play more comfortably with an arm rest. Again a very subjective thing, but that's the beauty of this instrument, you can experiment with picks, strings, straps, pick-ups, etc. until you have created your special one-of-a-kind instrument.
Thanks Gene,
Between your reply, and the Tone-Gard thread, I think I'm convinced enough to try one. However, I pretty much busted my budget on the mandolin, so unless I can find a deal on a used Tone-Gard, I'm going to have to wait a while.
Thank again for the reply,
Loren
otterly2k
Feb-10-2006, 9:08am
Mojo- I have a cast Allen tailpiece on mine (I think it has better sustain for this), and have used an armrest which I think helps me maintain a better right arm angle (less leaning on the top/bridge). I like the Labella flatwound strings, myself... for a smooth touch and easy action.
There was a previous thread on this in which a couple of people talked about having swapped out the bridges too...and claimed it made a positive difference in tone and volume. I haven't tried that, myself. I did do some work on the bridge to allow it to be set lower. Really nice instrument, and plays beautifully.
(shameless plug...it's in the classifieds...recent upgrade necessitates that this one go).
Mojo- I have a cast Allen tailpiece on mine (I think it has better sustain for this), and have used an armrest which I think helps me maintain a better right arm angle (less leaning on the top/bridge). I like the Labella flatwound strings, myself... for a smooth touch and easy action.
There was a previous thread on this in which a couple of people talked about having swapped out the bridges too...and claimed it made a positive difference in tone and volume. I haven't tried that, myself. I did do some work on the bridge to allow it to be set lower. Really nice instrument, and plays beautifully.
(shameless plug...it's in the classifieds...recent upgrade necessitates that this one go).
Thanks for that Karen, I likely will get a cast tailpiece at some point - the one on the mando now is some cheesy replacement that's so flimsy it's not even funny.
I've been searching through bridge threads, but haven't come across any Quartz OO bridge replacement posts, but I'll keep searching.
Loren Bailey
Feb-12-2006, 3:14pm
Mojo,
I had a Quartz OF. A cast TP improved what was already a good thing. Gained a bit more volume and got a bit deeper tone.
As far as the Tone Gard goes, I was in the same boat, busted the budget on the mando. Got some good advice from someone on how to get the same results on the cheap. Use a viola shoulder rest on the back of the mando. Fit perfect and accomplished the same goal. They can be had for under $10. I did later purchase a Tone Gard though. They are cool.
Loren Bailey
Thanks Loren,
It's good to hear that several folks have had positive results with the TP upgrade. Good idea about the low cost tone gard replacement, I wouldn't have thought of that approach.
Regards,
Loren
Loren Bailey
Feb-12-2006, 5:49pm
ahh, world domination by the "Lorens" begins!
Loren
Brian KC
Feb-12-2006, 11:31pm
Based on another thread of this nature , I put an Allen cast tailpiece on my Quartz OO along with a new adjustable bridge(I think it was a Sullivan)and the instrument definitely is loduer and has more sustain. Well worth the investment of @ $90 all in.
briankc
ahh, world domination by the "Lorens" begins!
Loren
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
Brian, thanks for the reply. The bridge you bought, did it already have string grooves filed into the saddle, or did you need to do that yourself? The Breedlove's have a wider string spacing than normal, correct?
I'm particularly interested to hear about bridges because mine appears to have been monkeyed with enough that it either needs work or replacement.
Loren (The other Loren B.) B. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
FWIW, I think the Allen AR-2 tailpiece and a armrest have made a world of difference on my OO (especially the tailpiece). I was also going to put Schaller tuners on, but one screw on the end would require redrilling and I didn't think it was worth it. I've also thought about trying different bridges, but right now everything seems to be dialed in and as one friend put it "dang, this thing's alive!", so I'm leaving well enough alone. I use J-74's since they sound good to me, are fairly cheap. I also replace strings frequently. I'd go with new strings first and make sure it is setup correctly. Then if you must accessorize go for a new TP first. Hope you like your OO as much as I like mine.
VictorLouis
Feb-13-2006, 9:25am
The Breedlove's have a wider string spacing than normal, correct? #
That was one of the first things I noted with mine, at least on the lower wound courses. That, and the roomy fretboard. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Brian KC
Feb-13-2006, 11:51am
Mojo, I had to cut the grooves for the strings. I had some professional help doing it. The trick to doing this correctly/easily is to lay the old bridge just beneath the new on a table and use the old grooves as a template. Note the grooves do not have to be nearly as deep as those in the nut. They are just deep enought to a guide. My guess is less is more when you are cutting these grooves.
Remember to make sure and line up the bridges exactly so tyhat you cut the correct grooves in the right places and not end up cutting them upside down.....
Good luck.
Brian
Thanks again to all who responded, your replies have been quite helpful, and are much appreciated!
Cheers,
Loren
Mojo, from previous posts I'm guessing you've had your OO for a few days now. What do you think of it?
Brad
Mojo, from previous posts I'm guessing you've had your OO for a few days now. What do you think of it?
Brad
Brad,
I'll repost (more or less) a copy of a note I sent someone regarding my Breedlove OO last night. #I should preface the following by saying that I'm an instrument maker myself, having spent the last few years working at a very highly regarded historic woodwind shop here in Boston, so I have a certain experience and comfort level in working with tools, and I think it's also fair to say I have a pretty critial eye and ear, FWIW, which may not be a whole lot #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Here goes:
I should start by saying the mandolin arrived last Friday or #Saturday, and was not quite in the condition the owner had #described: There were a few more dings (not a big deal), a couple #of the tuners turned VERY roughly, the frets have some wear ( the #owner told me they didn't), the bridge wasn't fit properly to the #top, and oddly enough, the neck (which is a bolt-on) was a hair #loose - it didn't wiggle or anything, but there was a gap at the #heel, between the body and the neck, that I could slide a piece of #paper under (more on that later.) #Otherwise, the mandolin was in #very good condition.
I have to be honest and say that, after tuning the mandolin up, I #was really quite disappointed in the sound. The action and feel of #the neck, as well as the playability, were fantastic, and the high #strings sounded good, the D string set wasn't too bad, but the G #strings sounded dull, flat, and had very little sustain. The #mandolin as a whole lacked volume - overall it really sounded dull #and pretty wimpy. The owner had assured me the strings were about a #month old and had only been played once or twice in that time, and since the strings were the stainless JM-11 Jazz Mando strings, I #was starting to worry, since they shouldn't wear out or corrode for months (the guitar came to me from New York.)
Well, I played the mandolin over the weekend, as it was, and felt #pretty glum, thinking that I was pretty unhappy with my purchase. All through the weekend I was #regretting my decision to buy this particular instrument, and there was no trial period, I was stuck with it.
First thing Monday morning I called Breedlove to ask if a gap at the neck #joint was normal or not. #They assured me there should be no gap, #and said they saw no problem with me tightening the neck bolts, if #I could get to them, which is a little tricky since at Breedlove they use a VERY #long handle T wrench inserted through the strap button hole on the bottom of the mandolin. I didn't have one of those handy, but forutnately I had a couple of tools that allowed me to go in and tighten the bolts through the sound hole.
I decided to try and deal with most of the issues at once, so I #took off the strings, tightened the neck bolts, cleaned the fret #board, cleaned and lubed the tuners, leveled the bridge feet a bit #(the bass string side was not contacting the top evenly at all), and then restrung with new strings - Martin Light guage, since that was #all I could get my hands on locally.
Once I had the mandolin restrung and tuned up, it sounded #like a completely different instrument: Good tone, resonance and sustain across all the strings - no more dead sounding bass strings, a HUGE difference. I can't say for certain which of the changes - new strings, tightening the neck bolts, or fitting the bridge feet better - accounts for the improvement, but I'm guessing the neck #adjustment had a lot to do with it. Perhaps the original strings were shot as well, hard to say.
At any rate, I've played the Breedlove yesterday and today, and by the end of today everything has improved even more, perhaps the #strings have just broken in, or perhaps the neck and bridge are settling into their new positions, but regardless, I'm extremely please with the sound now: #The tone is open, woody, and resonant, with excellent string #definition. The highs are clean and clear, without being overly #bright, the mid-range is well balanced and the bottom end is surprisingly strong and deep, with a nice touch of "tubbiness". #The instrument seems to be staying in tune extremely well so far #(after the initial string stretching), and the action and #playability remain fantastic.
When I initially received the Breedlove I was really feeling like I'd made a mistake: I was unhappy that the condition wasn't quite #as described, but more important to me, was that fact that I found #the tone and volume completely uninspiring. I really couldn't understand why so many people heap praise on the Breedlove mandolins. However, after giving the Quartz some much needed love, #it seems to have gotten it's Mojo back, and I'm a believer, I'm #really quite happy with it now. I expect I'll upgrade to a cast tailpiece, and perhaps a new bridge, or at least I'll work on the old one some more, but even as it is, I imagine that, MAS aside, I won't feel the need to #upgrade for a good long time, which is exactly what I was hoping for.
Yeah, okay, I still want a Weber Absaroka or Beartooth, and a Flatiron, and Old Gibby A oval hole.....but those are all out of my price range for the time being, and I'm quite happy with the Breedlove for now, and even when I "upgrade" down the line, I expect to keep the Breedlove as back-up and travel mando (it's certainly no "beater") Besides, as someone who's more or less just starting on Mandolin (I played a little years ago, on a ###### import and then quit), I really don't feel like I could find a mandolin that would be easier to learn on - The neck, frets, and action of the Breedlove suit me perfectly, perhaps because I play a bit of guitar, so all in all, I suppose you can now officially add me to the list of card carrying Breedlove Mando Lovers. #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
Loren
Wow, what a great reply. Thanks for taking the time. If you every get a Absaraoka, I'd be interested in your comparison. I looked at the Absaraoka before I bought my OO, but decided I wasn't good enough yet to break the $1000 mark. The person I bought mine from sold it because he was in a band and the oval hole just wasn't working for him in that situation. But for someone like me, who spends most of his time on the couch, it's been perfect. Congradulations again!
Brad
otterly2k
Feb-16-2006, 10:58am
Loren-- SO glad to hear it all worked out. Kudos to you for taking the plunge and dealing with the problems head on. You will continue to reap the rewards for a good long time.
And shame on the seller for failing to disclose the problems...and whoever else messed up this instrument... This Breedlove did NOT get this way by itself!
enjoy!!
KE
Wow, what a great reply. Thanks for taking the time. If you every get a Absaraoka, I'd be interested in your comparison. #I looked at the Absaraoka before I bought my OO, but decided I wasn't good enough yet to break the $1000 mark. #The person I bought mine from sold it because he was in a band and the oval hole just wasn't working for him in that situation. #But for someone like me, who spends most of his time on the couch, it's been perfect. Congradulations again!
Brad
Brad, sounds like the other guy's loss was definately your gain!
No biggie regarding the reply, since it was more or less a cut and paste job from an email I sent someone else.
It'll probably be some time before I have enough cash for an Absaroka, however I did see a custom Oval hole Absaroka on ebay last week that I'd have been sorely tempted by if I had the finacial resources. Actually, the more I think about it, the more I'd like to find a nice used Absaroka Mandola......
Loren-- SO glad to hear it all worked out. #Kudos to you for taking the plunge and dealing with the problems head on. #You will continue to reap the rewards for a good long time.
And shame on the seller for failing to disclose the problems...and whoever else messed up this instrument... This Breedlove did NOT get this way by itself! #
enjoy!!
KE
Thanks Karen.
Yeah, very bad Karma for the person who sold it to me. It's always a shame to see perfectly good instruments either neglected, or worse, tinkered with by folks who don't have a clue what they're doing. Fortunately in this case, there's no serious damage, just some annoying little issues to deal with. I'm still not happy with the intonation, and I'm fairly certain it's either going to take a new bridge, or lots of fiddling with the old one, but that's not a huge deal. In addition, the total ####, flimsy tail piece has got to go (it's not the original Breedlove tailpiece), but that's about it. As I said (niggling little intonation issues aside) I'm quite happy with the mando now, so all is good.
Thanks again to all for the info and support http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Loren
ToneDeaf
Feb-27-2006, 11:54am
I bought a used Breedlove from a respectable national dealer who had taken it on trade from a respectable cafe member who obviously knows his mandolins. When I got received it, I let it warm up in the case, got it out, and tuned it up to pitch. Because of loose bolts, the top immediately started to separate at the center seam between the soundhole and the neck block. I had it reglued (and a snall cleat added) and the neck joint tightened at the dealer's expense, and I've been happy with the instrument.
I don't think the problem existed when it was traded in, or when it left the dealer. I believed that it occurred in shipping, possibly by a shock compounded by not having large enough threads on the bolts. It also happening to someone else only confirms my earlier belief that a relativley low amount of shock can make the bolt threads jump in the anchor sleeves (I'm assuming there are metal sleeves in the neck heel).
I may be wrong, but it's food for thought.
Scott,
I don't know for certain how the neck bolt (only one was loose) got got that way, although I do have evidence it may have been tampered with in an effort to lower the action. However, that's not what I was referring to in terms of Bad Karma: The things that irk me are items that I specifically asked about and got false or misleading information on.
I do appreciate your comments, and I do think it's good for other Breedlove owners to know that a loose neck bolt could cause problems, however I don't personally believe it's fair to the Breedlove company to say that these bolts have come loose by themselves, since neither of us know for certain exactly how the bolts on our instruments got that way.
Being an instrument maker myself, I have found that when a well designed instrument comes in for repair with some "unusual" issue, the problem can, more often than not, be traced back to abuse or tampering on the part of the current or previous owner. Certainly it's not always the case, but I've seen enough at this point to give Breedlove the benefit of the doubt, rather than speculate it's a design issue.
Cheers,
Loren
ToneDeaf
Feb-28-2006, 7:38am
I'm sorry you feel that I was being unfair to Breedlove. I don't think I was. Please allow me to clarify. It wasn't my intent to denigrate anyone. I like my Breedlove. I liked the service I got from them when I needed it, too. I also have a high opinion of the dealer I bought it from, and of the person who traded it in. That's why I didn't name them. It's just a hunch I had, and your experience seemed to confirm it. When I read this thread, it seemed like more than a coincidence that it could happen twice. I didn't know that yours appeared to be altered by someone when I posted above. I also don't think the bolts on mine came loose by themselves, I think shock during shipping did it. And I can't blame that on anyone but a shipper. Finally, I realize that if I had inspected it better before tuning it up, I could have avoided the problem I had.
Apologies on my part Scott, in retrospect I realize the tone of my last post was probably something other than what I had intended: I think your post was valuable and I did not take it as being negatively directed towards Breedlove or anyone else. My experience has been that things often get twisted and/or misundertood in the on-line world. My concern was that some people might be inclined to infer from our comments that these bolts could easily come loose on their own. In this respect I felt the need to clarify my own comments, and suggest that others not jump to conclusions regarding our comments in general, although perhaps this last bit was going to far on my part.
Again, my aplogies for any misunderstandings, and Scott, thank you for sharing your experience - I will certainly be checking the tightness of my Breedlove's bolts at every string change, now that I know more serious consequneces than loss of tone and sustain are possible.
All the best,
Loren
otterly2k
Feb-28-2006, 8:21am
My guess is that someone twiddled with that neck bolt thinking it was the truss rod adjustment.
ToneDeaf
Feb-28-2006, 9:56am
Mojo, I took no offense, I know what you mean about the trouble conveying intention when writing online. I also wanted to clarify my intent. I'm sorry to hear you had a bad experience with the classifieds. I've bought a couple of instruments through them, and hearing of your troubles, my faith is a bit diminished.
I'm glad we're all good then Scott http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
It is a bit discouraging, but I don't think the person who sold me the mando is a forum regular, and it's bound to happen every once in a while. The good news is, I've dealt with most of the issues now (still need a new bridge), and have done some upgrades (TP, Tone-gard, Armrest - thanks L.B.!), and the mando sounds great and plays well at this point, so aside from being out more cash than I expected, I came out okay with the Breedlove.
Karen, have you ever tried to get at those bolts? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif Breedlove use an extremely long T-handle, hex head (5/32) wrench inserted through the hole for the strap button, with the tailpiece off, and that's the EASY way to do it! I had to MacGuyver a set-up that would work for accessing the bolts through the sound hole at a right angle, without dinging the sound hole edges, or top, in the process, not so easy.
Considering that the truss rod cover is pretty obvious, it's hard for me to imagine someone going to all the trouble necessary to access those bolts, thinking that was the truss rod adjustment, HOWEVER, I have seen much more unlikely things happen to woodwinds that cross my bench, so who knows, you may be correct!
Loren
otterly2k
Feb-28-2006, 9:19pm
my bad, Loren...no I haven't...
it was a theory...shot all to h-e-double hockey sticks, I suppose.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
steve V. johnson
Mar-01-2006, 9:04am
Tailpiece - Breedlove....
I'm a big fan of cast tailpieces, but I recently had a nice eye-opener from Breedlove.
I fellow with whom I play got a brand new Breedlove tailpiece for his Quartz 00. I understand that it may be the standard tp for Breedloves in '07. It's brass with black powdercoat, and it's small, light and elegant, great looking, too.
It deepened the tone of his 00 a whole lot, the bottom is more rich and complex and the mids much more prominent, without any loss of clarity or power in the trebles.
It is a loop-end only design, tho.
stv