bands change personnel

[bsimmers]

Can anyone tell me why full time musicians change bands so much? Mike Hartgrove leaves IIrd Time Out, then ends up back with Doyle Lawson. Adam Steffey leaves AKUS and joins another band. Every bluegrass band seems to change personnel frequently, and it appears that they just shuffle around from band to band. Many times they end up back where they started. Is the pay that different from band to band? Are musicans that temperamental (other than us Mando Cafe Geeks)?

[Tim]

Probably many factors. #They are all human so personality conflicts are inevitable. #Some bands are doing better than others either due to per show fees or number of shows. #There is also the issue of where you live relative to the rest of the band - its tough if you have to leave one day earlier than everyone else to get to the departure point.

[chuck.naill]

Free Agency at work?

I agree that personalities are at odds sometimes, but also: tastes in the way the music is performed, which instruments are featured, travel, and if one is seeking a solo career.

I am hearing about lots of these great musicians going through burnouts lately because they are constantly "on call" from the leading personality. I am sure at first it's a great ride and then after playing that same lick everynight when its not really your style can become a pain.

Chuck

[FlawLaw]

I think personility conflicts, boredom with the set list and a desire to try new adventures, desire to start a solo career, family. There are so many reasons. My band broke up because I thought the banjo player was a jerk, but now we are back together...things change, it turns out that I was the jerk.

[Aran]

Will I like your honesty it really tickled me!! Easy to think the banjo player is a jerk if your a mando player http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I met Ernie Sykes last week and he was in a different band than when I saw him last year, I found this strange and asked him about it! He replied: I am now full time with this band! (a bit sternly)

Man I have no idea what the politics of this sort of thing are! but wherever you go there's politics and I experienced it through different working situations and allways tried to keep out of it! however with something as emotional and personal as music I can see ego clashes becoming an issue if the synergy isn't perfect.

As it goes at the moment it's just me and a banjer, with no guituarist or bass player or fiddler on the horizon so the politics are at a minimal. Quote "Surely it's your turn to go get some beer from the fridge this time?"

Yeah not very high brow I know http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Jonathan Reinhardt]

Better to switch bands than try to play in too many at once.
Guilty of the latter, it creates considerable conflict, even in the bush leagues.

rasa
Jonathan Reinhardt

Cold River Ranters
L'il Orphans
Cosmic Jalopy
Earth Colony
rasa (me solo)

[mrbook]

It's a job, and probably not a steady one, so I'll bet pay has as much to do with it as personalities or musical considerations. All the factors go together. Reading about one band in an old issue of Bluegrass Unlimited, the fiddler switched bands because he had to drive 400 miles to get on the band bus, and only 80 miles with the new band.

On a local level I think bands stay together as long as everyone gets along. We have had a couple people go nuts, yell at everyone, and leave (they all seem to have given up performing), but generally our band has stayed together unless people have personal matters that take them out of the band. Sometimes they come back, too. On our level, though, we are not doing it for a living, which really changes the dynamics. It may be a "second job" - I like to refer of it as a second income that doesn't put me in another tax bracket - but it is also a fun and creative break from our regular lives.

[TonyP]

I wish there we're more of the "big boys" out in the open here as I'd love to know like why Adam Steffy left AKUS and a couple of others. I defintely don't want it go get into a gossip thing, and that's probably why you don't hear much about it. But especially with AKUS, all the early albums had a different mando player every time until Adam, and now Dan.

Sometimes they get fired too...

I have lots of good stories, but I save those for face to face conversations.

[Jackie Walters]

I'm a big AKUS fan..and I always wondered too why Adam Steffey left that band...I live in West Michigan..and Mountain Heart is scheduled to play this Fall in a local town...I quite often get asked to help with "behind" the scenes stuff...Fortunately for me..I get to meet these incredible musicians. I've met quite a few the past years..and what always amazes me..is they are all so "approachable". I have yet to see them show up with bodyguards..
Angelfire

[Ken Waltham]

I think one of the main reasons is lack of money. They get paid so little, that "going to work" isn't that big of a deal, like it is with us who have steady day jobs. If we all got paid so little for our efforts, picking up and leaving over an anoyance would be a much easier decision than leaving a job that pays much more.
On the same token, ever wonder why bands like the Rolling Stones, The Who, etc stay together so long? I have no doubt a lot of it has to do with the money. You can put up with a lot of #### for that kind of a paycheck. Conversly, why would you for minimum wage?
Most of our bluegrass heros have wives who are professionals, so they can support their husbands. At the end of one of my most admired mandolin player's career in an A class BG band, he told me he made 17K that year. Mind you, that was a few years ago, but, think about living on that.

[AlanN]

As Ken says, it all comes down to money.

It's all well and good to hang with people you can jam with and make good music, but at the end of the day, what's in your pocket? Aubrey Haynie said once that he's kicking butt at this stage in his life to do as many sessions as possible - the window is tight. Butch's NME used to be a huge band, 10 or 12 members. Now, it's stripped down to 4 or 5. Larry Stephenson pays the band member who drives the bus an extra $5 an hour, 5 dollars! Alan Bibey said no to a bus. As good as his band is, a bus would suck away all profit. Terry Baucom left that band to go with Doyle...money was the issue.

[mandopete]

With respect to Adam Steffey and AKUS, I believe he originally started with Mountain Heart prior to joining AKUS. #That might explain his desire to return at some point in the future.

Funny thing, I was asked this same question justlast week at a gig. #A person in audience asked "what happened to your old band?" as I was in another band for 6 years prior. I said that things just change and people like to move on. Nothing more complicated than that I think.

You know, I think the real question is why do some bands stay together so long.

[gnelson651]

In her book Homegrown Music: Discovering Bluegrass,Stepanie Ledgin explains that "changes in bluegrass personnel are very common and generally not determintal as one might expect. A major reason bluegrass remains a fresh, exciting music is the high turn over in bands. Almost a tradition in the music, like a never-ending school, musicians interning with one group, stepping up to the next and the next, until an artist often breaks away, forms and leads his or her own band."

She goes on the say that these leaders cultivate and shape their band sound to preserve the drive, energy and persona that maintains fans. This permits the group to expand and breathe.

Note that Bill Monroe continued to change musicians and many of these musicians who learned from the master grew their own bands. For a relatively new music genre, this growth by reticulation has built Bluegrass into its own very quickly.

[Jonathan Reinhardt]

Good question, mandopete.
I think we get comfortable on a certain level, mostly with a large repetoire of songs, some of which may not be transferable to another band. Sort of the investment thing (don't want to lose 'em or the time spent working on them. Or are unsure if we can quickly learn another 60 -100 on top of everything else.) Yes, over time, repetoire expands, and changes, as do personnel. When that happens, it's a test of one's stability. New people are sure to bring new songs. Some are suitable, others not so. A band actually can change it's presentation radically, and that brings forward new questions. And possibly motivation to move on oneself, if the band is changing in a direction that is not comfortable.
Another reason for band longevity is the friendships formed. They are often very special, and moving on may mean placing distance on those relationships.

And regarding both leaving and staying: above was mentioned money, and it is a factor. Hence the temptation to take on as much musical work as one can handle.
Travel costs can always be an issue. A band that stays very local is budget friendly. For distance gigs, buses are only a luxury, even a fantasy! Car pooling is the usual. If you can get along there, you can stay together a long time!
The "door" is small change at many places, certainly not enough to allow the bigger, or top of the heap bands to book. People are overwhelmed with their entertainment options. Hundreds of bands compete for available time/space, often playing for little or nothing. There never really were fat times, and the current times are lean indeed. One plays, and continues to play, music for the love of it. But the money makes it possible to keep going.

I have from time to time retreated to strictly music for myself, my family, and friends, but always the urge to perform on a broader scale returns and I throw myself out there once again. This usually means a band change, although I have, on occassion, returned to a previous band.


rasa
Jonathan Reinhardt

[Jackie Walters]

Wow - The stuff you learn on this website ...
Incredible..Thanks for all the info..
Angelfire

[Smurf]

"17K that year...........think about living on that."

The last few years the I played full time we made it on 12.5...it's all in what you do need vs. what you THINK you need! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif