Gibson Skaggs Model

[Kevin Briggs]

Heard through the grapevine recently that Gibson is working up a Skaggs model. Allegedly, Skaggs has already signed on and is receiving a hundred thous. for the deal. Something like that.

[Joe Parker]

I guess he'll be calling you to thank you for keeping the confidence. Pass the popcorn! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sleepy.gif

[Hans]

Yea, I made a deal with Yank Rachel for 10 bucks and a pint of whiskey, but he up and croaked on me. # http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[G. Fisher]

According to previous posts Gibson does not give away mando's to anyone and that they only give artist pricing. So, paying Ricky $100,000 sounds like a stretch.

[Kevin Briggs]

Wouldn't Gibson need to pay Skaggs for the name though?

[cbogle]

I believe that Gibson may be loaning them out for very long periods of time to certain artists, and occasionally these artists might lose track of the instrument(s)in question. Never know where those things may end up! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

[Kevin Briggs]

I think a few of you misunderstood my thous. abbreviation. I mean Gibson is paying Skaggs for his name so Gibson can make a Skaggs model mandolin, like the Bibey or Bush model.

[Lane Pryce]

If its no company secrete how steep is the discount for "artists" and what kind of strings are attached? Lp

[G. Fisher]

I'm sure they may pay to use his name but $100,000 still sounds like a stretch.

[Joe Parker]

ratherbepickin, I guess your secret source didn't tell you everything.I hate it when that happens! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

JPP

[shawverscrossing]

I know for a first hand fact that Sam Bush presented Curtis Burch a Sam Bush Model mando. I find it hard to believe that Sam paid retail for that rascal. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Scott Tichenor]

Heard through the grapevine recently that Gibson is working up a Skaggs model. Allegedly, Skaggs has already signed on and is receiving a hundred thous. for the deal. Something like that.

My sources are very, very, very, very secret, but I will say it's an independent luthier who regularly communicates with Skaggs. I consider the luthier to be a reliable source.
You may have heard it through your super-secret source on the grapevine. The rest of us read a thread here about a month ago where Joe Vest at Gibson mentioned they were working with Skaggs on the possibility of a model for him.

I attempt to avoid discussions with people that don't sign their names, so just pretend I'm not talking to you.

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[om21ed]

Well, big whoop what Gibson pays anybody, I'd be more interested in the specs--what would be the unique features of a Skaggs model ? Which features from which of Ricky's mandos are going to make it to his model-- I remember reading the neck of his Loar is pretty thin, but i imagine he has a few mandos to cultivate ideas from.

Ed McG

[Stephanie Reiser]

If its no company secrete how steep is the discount for "artists" and what kind of strings are attached? Lp
Maybe D'Adarrios??? I think that is the kind Ricky uses.

[Kevin Briggs]

It might come standard with the tone guard, because Ricky definitely uses that. There might be some slick action settings. He doesn't get a "big" tone out of his mandolin, it's kind of sleek.

[Tom C]

If I was that independent luthier, I would be rather ired. If true, Ricky may have told him in good faith. Why get somebody in trouble or take the chance of spreading false info? Were any of the specs talked about?

[Kevin Briggs]

Here are my closing comments on this thread.

I doubt the guy I spoke to is too worried about it. I met him once and he told me within' minutes of meeting him. The reason he told me is I asked why Skaggs doesn't play one of the luthier's mandolins, if Skaggs and the luthier are so tight. The luthier responded that Skaggs is locked in with Gibson, and the luthier mentioned it with an aura of respect for Gibson, not contempt. It seemed like the luthier was saying that Gibson products are great, so why should Skaggs worry about playing anything other than a Gisbon if Gibson's paying Skaggs to play their product.

I'm no longer tracking this one, so don't bother trying to respond to my comments, with the intent on getting feedback from me.

[G. Fisher]

We've all seen this one before.

Throw out a bunch of hear say.

Have some people respond and questioning the validity of the info.

Respond to their own thread and going after Scott (not a good idea).

Delete posts and declare they are done with the thread.


Why would Gibson pay him to play a Gibson? He does already right?
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[fredfrank]

Yeah, I think Ricky plays a Loar. Don't know why he'd want anything else.
That's about as Gibson as it gets!

[Big Joe]

Ricky plays a Distressed Master Model that is nearly exactly like his Loar. We even shaped the neck to match. We have been in dicscussion with Ricky on a DMM Scaggs model, but I don't know where that process is. I can say we do not pay artists for the use of their name. We would not make enough profit on these mandolins in a couple decades to overcome a 100K payment! The artist usually gets some product for his part. I don't work these deals and don't know how they are structured, but I can say with all clarity no artist will get rich on an endorsement for Gibson products! You can take that to the bank.

[kudzugypsy]

i agree with joe, that figure given is WAY out of line for the number of instruments you could sell. i can see fender giving that kind of money to eric clapton for his signature model, which they will sell thousands of, but not for a DMM....i mean, what could they offer different than a standard F5...they are already running out of features...there is only so much you can do to the classic F5 design.

i think when the market gets saturated with these signature models...martin is a perfect example - then they really loose their appeal. look at all those martin signature editions....they even have an andy griffith signature model...folks, i have played with andy griffith...that is going over the edge imo. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[mandopete]

Yeah, yeah yeah....but when in the world is Gibson gonna come out with the Milla Jovovitch clothing-optional model?

[JEStanek]

Joe, I'm neither a pro nor a terribly good picker... I would be willing to sign on as the Poster Boy for any of the new Flatiron models. It took a lot of introspection to come to this endorsement decision.

I'm not looking to get rich off the endorsment, maybe just some product. I'll pose for some photos (dear God don't make me do sound clips!) although I've been told I have a face for radio! Just a thought for a way to get Joe-Eight String to identify with the new line.

Respectfully,

Jamie Stanek http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[pickinNgrinnin]

Oh boy - two favorite cafe topics in one thread! Ricky Skaggs and Gibson http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[J. Mark Lane]

Eastman.

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[evanreilly]

If Ricky is playing a Gibson DMM, he always has that distressed July 9th, 1923 to fall back on; that one has 'The Gibson' in the peghead also.

[Eric F.]

Eastman paying Chris Thile to cut his hair.

[red7flag]

Big Joe,
#Is the concept of a Ricky Skaggs DMM to look distressed like Ricky's Loar as opposed to Charlie's Loar? #Just curious.
By the way, I hope to see you at SPBGMA.
Tony

[ronlane3]

I could be wrong, but I thought I read that Ricky has two Loar. I understand MAS, but why would someone with two Loar's need a distressed MM? Darrin Vincent and Andy Leftwich will probably end up playing it at shows.

[8ch(pl)]

I would be willing to allow Gibson to use my name for 10 bucks and a pint of whiskey. It would have to be an A model, I have humble roots.

[Big Joe]

Hey Tony...I will be at SPBGMA all weekend and look forward to seeing all my friends there. It looks like his loar and the neck is his dimension and I believe they are talking about a tone gard with it, etc. Ricky picks them out and signs off on them and ensures they meet his criteria. His is pretty picky!

The reason one plays a DMM is so they don't have to travel with a Loar that is worth more than anyone wants to travel on the road with. If you lose a DMM it is a real loss, but could be recoverable. If you lose a Loar it is devastating and cannot be replaced. The real thing is a cool thing, but a lot of worry for the owner to travel with. If you can have a mandolin that looks as good, and sounds about the same, why not?

[Moose]

Now 'ya know, folks! - Thanks Joe. Moose. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[JEStanek]

I totally get what Joe is saying. If I was travelling all over and gigging in all these different, how secure, places I would leave my Loar(s) at home if I could get the same tone out of a DMM made to my Loar(s)'s specs. Better to have an accident and only be out $20-30K than out a Loar. Gibson can rebuild Monroe's Loar but they can't fix it if it has R U N N O F T. Save that Loar for the studio! The tough thing is to get your Loar's sound out of the new DMM. I wonder how many Ricky rejects...

Jamie

Jamie

[Tom C]

But if you do not have your Loar with you while touring, somebody may steal it from your home. Gee, this economic distribution of mandolins is more complicated than I thought.

[pickinNgrinnin]

I've read accounts at this site were folks take their Loars to festivals and play them around the evening campfires. Maybe once they put the Mando back in the case, they handcuff the case to their wrist? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[delsbrother]

Yeah, yeah yeah....but when in the world is Gibson gonna come out with the Milla Jovovitch clothing-optional model?
Pete, I believe that already exists.. Just take off all your clothes, pick up your Flatiron Pancake, and voila, your mando turns into a MJ-C-O-1N.

[mandoJeremy]

Ricky's DMM actually sounds better than his main Loar to my ears also. I have compared both of them side by side and I would take the DMM over the Loar for sound anyday. Great mando.

[Mark Walker]

I find this thread absolutely fascinating - and have learned some interesting things from Big Joe's comments. #

Now I - being of average 'ear' (and well below average talent) - actually entertained thoughts of buying a Gibson F5. # (Nothing along the lines of a Loar, MM or Signature model of course!) #I cashed in some Frequent Flyer miles, and took a quick trip to Opry Mills in Nashville in early 2002, and hung around the shop there watching the luthiers craft mandos. #I tried every one hanging on the wall, and for the money couldn't convince myself to get one. #

Now I don't say that in a derogatory vein at all; I couldn't justify the price tags hanging on any of them for (IMHO) having something say 'The Gibson' on the headstock. #My two Silver Angel mandolins - at half the price and custom-made to my desires - look as great and sound MUCH better than any of the Gibsons I 'test-drove.' #

Beyond that, my wife would have either
a.) kicked me out of the house for buying a Gibson with a $5000+ price tag, or
b.) amputated all my fingers on my left hand with a dull tack hammer

All that being said, I tend to agree with kudzugypsy's comments about signature models and Martins. #I know, I know - "If it ain't played on a Martin, (or a 'The Gibson') it ain't 'bluegrass.'" #I've heard many fine Martin guitars - as well as many more equally or better-sounding and playing Guilds, Washburns, Gibsons, and Taylors. #(Interestingly, my father has a Washburn flatop guitar that is - bar none - the easiest and best 'flat-pickin' guitar I've ever had in my hands.)

I've got a 1977 Hohner HG320 Limited Edition flattop dreadnaught six-string that I bought brand-new over all the Martin guitars I test drove back then. (Martin having had their share of problems with 'consistency' back in the 70's) #It's basically a knock-off of a Martin D35 but has an adjustable neck/trussrod in it. #It was that 'find' that convinced me the music world doesn't revolve around Martin guitars, much the same as music doesn't revolve around The Gibson mandolins. #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

Hopefully I've not offended the dyed-in-the-wool Martin and Gibson purists! #My ears are happy with the sounds coming out of my Silver Angel mandolin and Hohner guitar! #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #And isn't that the basic desire of most musicians? # #
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[Moose]

Hey!...no problems here, buddy! - I once(!#) owned a SA/Laura-made "A". Moose-the-repenitant. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Coy Wylie]

IMHO you can blast Gibson all you want... but Martin is a different story! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[red7flag]

Funny, but Martin is facing the same problems with competition that Gibson is facing. For so long both Gibson, in Banjos and Mandos and Martins in guitars were the deal in Bluegrass. That is changing. Both are facing some very stiff competition. Which in the end, I feel, will make them both better. Actually, I think we have already seen the result in the greatly improved Gibsons and Martins of late.
Tony

[J. Mark Lane]

Yes, Tony. The Martins of the 1990's or so are great. And I think that was partly because of the competition Taylor and others represented.

But you can either accept competition and live with it, and try to work within a fair, open competitive market...or you can try to kill competition itself, and run away from it. You can either compete fairly with others in your industry, or you can try to use your market power to prevent them from ever seeing the light of day.

These are fundamental questions. They go to the very heart of what this country is about. Some companies live those notions; others try to defy them. The latter will, in my opinion, always fail. In general, Martin is in the former category.

[f5loar]

Last I heard and talked to Skaggs (April,2005)he did still have 2 Loars. One for regular tuning and the other for Get Up John tuning! The July 9th Loar would be his main Loar and the other one is the one he got back that he had while in the Boone Creek/New South days a March 31, 24.. He previously had a gold plated Dec. 1, 24 Loar. A DMM for travel makes practical sense.

[Mark Walker]

Well said, J. Mark Lane. #

I'm not really putting any instrument maker down, and just wanted to interject my two-cents' worth. #If Gibson's marketing department feels there is a market/demand for Sam Bush, Ricky Skaggs, Bill Monroe, Adam Steffey, (enter prominent mandolin-picker name here) and can sell some and make a buck on them, more power to them. #

I actually considered buying a Jim Croce signature Martin some years back - I learned guitar (finger-picking style) by listening to Croce, James Taylor and Gordon Lightfoot while in high school in the early 70's. #Don't know how many signature models Martin has released, but I know of the Croce and a Clarence White model, and I'm sure there are a few more as well! #(Tony Rice perhaps?) # http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[ronlane3]

ClosetMandolinPlayer,

Martin doesn't have a Tony Rice, due to him being with another guitar maker, but the list of signature models is "as long as my arm". I'm not putting them down for that, just stating a fact.

[JimRichter]

Martin's signature series is definitely the length of your arm, and, in fact, if you were to wrap it around the circumference of the earth, it would encircle the earth 2.7 times. They have a signature guitar for everyone and anyone.

Jim

[bsimmers]

I just hope that the Skaggs Model Gibson mandolin doesn't require real lard, like his mother fried chicken in, to polish it. I'm use to canola oil. And I'm sick of hearing about that lard!

[J. Mark Lane]

No, no, no. It's the accent. He's talking about "the Lord."

[mandopete]

As in "Praise the Lard"

[Coy Wylie]

I thought the secret was butter in the lard? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

The RS sig could have a hardened lard finish. Has Gibson ever considered fine lard as an alternative to varnish? It is a natural product, completely biodegradable and won't harm the earth or the ozone. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Doug Edwards]

Or is it the "lowered". http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[Big Joe]

We use the special vintage Lard finish on special mandolins made entirely from biodegradable products. The back and neck from palm fronds...the top from wheat chaff...the strings from dead cats. Actually, since we are in Tennessee, we use recently squashed Possum innards, but we can't publish that information http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif .

[Moose]

Yeah, buddy!! - very "environmentaly sensitive" - hee... hee...(I better watch/check my "contributions" - some folks can't take-a-joke). Moose. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[fatt-dad]

How 'bout a new Gibson A-model oval hole mandolin with the nice "tubby" sound - the "fatt-dad" signature line. You can use my name and all and model it after my white-face A3; a mandolin with humble heritage but some flair. (It does make me wonder if and when Gibson will re-introduce the oval hole 12-fret fretboard A-model mandolin).

f-d

[Flowerpot]

I've heard the rumors about that new Gibson with the Lard finish and the wheat chaff top... the Digestible Master Model, right? Will you be offering a low-carb version?

[bsimmers]

Hey Joe, my Flatiron has a heart problem. I think there's a stent in the Left Anterior Descending Artery. Bruce Weber used the canola and Smart Butter on it. Does the Skaggs model have heart disease in the family history? If so, I'd like a custom model with low #### lard. If not, give me the works, road kill innards and extra virgin lard.

[bsimmers]

sorry, I misspelled fat!

[bsimmers]

Hey Joe, I see that you discovered a hidden Loar. Look at the signature closely. It may be signed by Lloyd's brother, who was also Ricky's great uncle, Lard Loar!

[Moose]

This thread is gett'n waaaaaaay too hilarious!!!(sp.)- now where's my da***** n dictionary!!??## http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[Big Joe]

Just reading this topic has dropped my IQ by 30 points...and that 29 more than I had to spare http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif .

[Ted Eschliman]

<sucking in breath>
I knew this thread was destined for meltdown the instant I read its title.
Boys, I hope I don't have to pull this car to the side of the road for some spankings...
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[FlawLaw]

Though I realize that fadd-dad was being some what facitious above, I would actually like to see a new oval hole Gibson. I was kinda hoping that this would be the year, not that the Gold Rush is not exciting in itself, but one more F-5 signature model is not particularly creative or interesting. I too get tired of, for instance, Martin and its endless display of signature guitars, many of which are never even used by the artist themselves (though admittedly I love my Martin guitar).

[Tom C]

Qoute: "Though I realize that fadd-dad was being some what facitious above"

No he is not, Gibson has 2 prototypes, an A6 and F6. Both oval holes with the longer necks. Big Joe shared this info in another thread.

[Coy Wylie]

BigJoe,

Just make sure when you add butter to the lard finish it is real hand-churned butter. You gotta pull out all the stops on a sig model. Will the Gibson olfactory expert be able to get the smell of fried chicken in the case lining?

Sorry Ted, don't pull over, I'll stop now. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[FlawLaw]

Qoute: "Though I realize that fadd-dad was being some what facitious above"

No he is not, Gibson has 2 prototypes, an A6 and F6. Both oval holes with the longer necks. Big Joe shared this info in another thread.
No, what I meant is he was being facitious when he said he wanted a tubby oval hole signature model...but that it is great that Gibson is working on oval holes and I missed Big Joe's thread on that.

[Eric F.]

Will the Gibson olfactory expert be able to get the smell of fried chicken in the case lining?

I recently returned from Nashville, where I watched as Gibson employees, in a top-secret secure location, fried chicken in various combinations of lard and oil in an attempt to get the smell as authentic as possible. It appears that for the OAI models they will indeed be using lard and actually frying chickens using Grandma May's recipe. Hundreds of open cases will be in the kitchen with Grandma May as she cooks - and she will be the cook for the actual production models. She insists, by the way, on Perdue chickens. However, for the lower cost Epiphone models, they plan to simply expose the cases to mass quantities of KFC family buckets. I have also heard of at least one independent builder who plans to fry only free range chickens. My only concern is will I get bird flu from my mandolin?

[dandolin]

I actually have a good friend who is a Gibson guitar endorsee, pretty big name in the blues guitar genre. I was actually at his house when he got his Beautiful Gibson L5 hollowbody which was custom made. He told me his endorsement is approx. 10 percent below cost of the guitar. That is cost and not retail and if anyone here works in a music store you probably know how much Gibson marks their stuff up. It is wayyyy more than the regular 50% above cost for the retail. For instance a $1000 guitar may actually only cost $350 knock 10% off of that and you are looking at $315. The same guy also had a kitchen table full of free strings he gets from DR. I've never seen that many stings in my life.

He doesn't get paid anything for endorsing Gibson but the discount alone on a quality instrument is well worth it.

[Willie]

Whats the big deal? All of the Gibsons are supposed to be constructed the same and Rickey is playing a Loar so what could a Skaggs model possibly have that isn`t already out there...I certainly wouldn`t buy one just because Skaggs`s has indorsed it...Willie

[Big Joe]

dandolin...you are greatly mistaken on the Gibson mark up. It is no larger and often much less than other manufacturers. While your friends artist deal may be a good discount, the dealer cost is nowhere near your example. Thank you.

[Ted Eschliman]

...if anyone here works in a music store you probably know how much Gibson marks their stuff up. It is wayyyy more than the regular 50% above cost for the retail. For instance a $1000 guitar may actually only cost $350 knock 10% off of that and you are looking at $315.
Hate to burst anyone's bubble here but as a current Gibson dealer (and former "roadkill" OAI dealer), these figures in the pro end of Gibson product are to put it politely, a bit "melodramatic."

Actually, not even close.

[Bradley]

Those types of Gross Profit are only made by Exxon.... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Ricky is a class act, and deserves some recognition for his 30 years of contribution to the musical industry.

Whether you like his departure to country or not, we all must admit that his Country was more bluegrass than some of todays bluegrass is. If we removed his contributions we would not only miss the Momma jokes but also one very fine picker.

[mandoJeremy]

Yeah, I also have to totally agree with Ted on this one. Those numbers are way, way off because I used to work in a music store myself.

[dandolin]

Pro end discount may very, but my buddies at guitar center get a mighty hefty discount, the Pete Townsend Sg for example that a friend purchased from a guitar center was far less than what you would get a fender at the same retail price. I'm sure it varies on quantity of instruments purchased. I know I worked at a much smaller music store than gc and my $999 retail SG cost me about $400 out the door. That is a fact.

dan

[dandolin]

In hindsight I have asked the moderator to pull my posts. I was trying to shed some insight on artist deals and I feel got carried away while mentioning dealer costs. I realize there are many variables on what your cost would actually be such as volume and the Pro line instruments. I feel my post was unfair to Gibson and apologize if I posted too much information. I enjoy this board and do not want to stir up any controversy.

all apologies

dan

[Big Joe]

First of all, Dan, all Gibson dealers pay the same price. They do not get quantity discounts. Second, if your store gave you that guitar for more than half off, it was a personal favor to you. They let you have it below dealer cost. It would be nice if there was markups like that, but on American made instruments they just don't exist. I appreciate your efforts to inform, but please make sure your information is correct and up to date.

[david blair]

Perhaps on Ricky' model they won't bake it in the oven, but deep flash fry in Mom's lard for that DMM look? It might have a familiar sound after unplugging those F__rt holes!

[Moose]

As a former music store owner I must "chime-in" on this one; Thanks, Joe for your "contribution. And of course you are correct ; MANY of the "artist/special models have LESS of a "mark-up for the dealer : "list= dealer cost ; in my time it was usually 10%($$$)ADDED to the usual dealer cost of a similar 'production-line instrument!!- AND..., EVERYBODY(!#) that came in "off-the-street" claimed to be a "professional" musician(i.e."...Hey buddy I want "professional" discount"...ad nausium...) - Just my small input to this thread. Moose. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[bsimmers]

Moose
I didn't know pros got 10% off. I'll have to try that. Thanks.
Can we assume the manufacturer is making the big profit then? Or, does it really cost $12K, or whatever, to make a Gibson Signature(anyone's) model?
Bob

[FlawLaw]

You guys can be harsh on poor Ricky Skaggs - I am listening to his CD "Soldiers of the Cross." #A fine collection of songs - love to listen to it right before I preach on Sundays. #Nice mandolin work as well.

[fatt-dad]

love to listen to it right before I preach on Sundays.
A lawyer and a preacher?

[Moose]

AMEN, brother! - http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[Links]

I didn't know you had to be a minister to ask for a "ministerial" discount!!!!!!!!!

[FlawLaw]

love to listen to it right before I preach on Sundays.
A lawyer and a preacher?
I was ordained as a Presbyterian minister back in 1994 and serve a very small traditionally Scottish Presbtyerian church in Buffalo (in a predominately Irish Catholic section of Buffalo). #I became a lawyer later (went to law school while working full-time as a minister)and passed the NY bar in 2000. I now am a lawyer who specializes in religious and not-for-profit law and a minister of a small church. #I set up a lot of tax exempt organizations - foundations, various, mostly Pentecostal churches, and a few music festivals here and there. It is a Federal practice, so I have clients all over the place.

My wife tells me that I am not particularly successful as a preacher or as a lawyer, but I get by...

I use the name "FlawLaw" as a bow to my Calvinistic roots (all humans are essentially flawed sinners and trash) and my law roots.

[fatt-dad]

You truly are on a "Mission from God". In the words of Moose, "Amen" from me too!

f-d

[JEStanek]

FlawLaw,
We pick on Ricky, but look at the Pick your 5 favorite Bluegrass CD thread and see how often his name is listed. He can't get no repsect but he sure gets some r e s p e c t !

Jamie

[Coy Wylie]

FlawLaw,

Amen from another Reformed mando picker who is familiar with the pulpit.

[bsimmers]

flawlaw,
If I eliminate lawyer jokes, there goes a third of my best stuff. If you're from West Virginia and play banjo, I'm done!
Bob

[JimRichter]

We pick on Ricky, but look at the Pick your 5 favorite Bluegrass CD thread and see how often his name is listed. He can't get no repsect but he sure gets some r e s p e c t !
As a mental health social worker/group home supervisor, I've learned to separate a person from their behavior. For a lot of us, this applies to Skaggs. Love and respect his music (fan from long ago--one of the reasons I started playing music), but really don't care for much else.

Jim

[metalmandolin]

I'm with you, Jim. I'm also a Butch Robins fan. I got to be the mandolinist for 2 years at Jack Hatfield's Smoky Mtn. Banjo Academy and pick a lot with Butch. He is definitely on the top list of Big Mon's banjo players, and mine.

[FlawLaw]

flawlaw,
If I eliminate lawyer jokes, there goes a third of my best stuff. If you're from West Virginia and play banjo, I'm done!
Bob
There are also a ton of good minister jokes as well. My daughter has tons of them that she uses on me when I get too full of myself.

Well, as far as Mr. Skaggs. I respect him for his musical ability. It seems that he uses his God given gifts very well and in an appropriate way. But I don't know him as a man...so enough said.