Pick it like Joni Mitchell

[Chip Booth]

Yes, I remember the old thread...

I was recently listening to her album 'Blue' and noticed that two or three songs feature a low, thin sounding, double coursed instrument, maybe a zouk of some kind? Anyone know anything about that?

Chip

[otterly2k]

it's a dulcimer.
but it can be approximated with a zouk/OM

[acousticphd]

Or, a strumstick, also known as a walkabout dulcimer. They usually have 3 strings (single courses) - but they make up for that by sounding even thinner, They're fun, easy to play because you hold it like a guitar neck, and also cheap.

[otterly2k]

FYI, Chip-
the dulimer 4 strings, with one pair of strings tuned in unison, and the others are an open interval... there are some different tunings used...but it's not all in double courses (just the one) ... and has that open droning sound with chords that move in parallel motion up and down the fretboard against the drone.

The tunes she plays on dulcimer, and some of the ones she plays in open tunings, translate nicely to the larger mando family instrument (if not directly). I think my favorite to play is "A Case of You". But a lot of her stuff (especially the earlier stuff) works great on OM.

And...OK... Blue is one of the best albums of all time, imho.

[Chip Booth]

Thanks for the info otterly2k, I will have to relisten, and I am sure it will then be obvious.

I tend to prefer the mid 70s albums with Jaco on bass, but regardless Joni rules http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Chip

[Eric F.]

Yeah, Karen, Blue is an all-time classic. Though I could listen to Hejira a million times just to hear Jaco's bass playing, as 'tater alluded to.

[FlawLaw]

Yeah, Karen, Blue is an all-time classic. Though I could listen to Hejira a million times just to hear Jaco's bass playing, as 'tater alluded to.
And don't forget Jaco played the mandocello quite well as well!!

[Chip Booth]

Speaking of Jaco, a fellow walked into the music shop where I teach the other day and told us all about how he used to play with Crosby Stills and Nash, and still gets together with Jaco on Wednesdays at an open mic in Hawaii. I kid you not http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif I bet Jaco and Elvis would lead a great open mic session...

Chip

[otterly2k]

Chip and Eric...
It's all good!!! Really, I like almost everything she's ever done... but I have a special fondness for the early stuff b/c it was by imitating her (and a few of her contemporaries...) that I learned how to play. I also USED to have a vocal range capable of the early stuff... it's a little above my reach now... but then again, it's above HERS as well!

[jim simpson]

I think I found the dulcimer interesting by the way Joni used it on Blue. I could never quite approximate her singing though!
The DVD Shadows And Light is a must view. Jaco has a cool solo section. I was bummed when I had advance tickets to see Weather Report only to find out it had been cancelled for some reason. Jaco would have been with them still. I did see Weather Report the next year but by then Jaco had moved on.
Getting back to Joni: Do you think she ever played the mandola that she got from Mandolin Brothers?

[Chip Booth]

Jim, I was just looking at my Shadows and Light CD. I noticed it has a note that is missing a few songs from the double album (it's an old CD, back before they could put as much time on them as they can now). I saw the concert on video years ago but don't remember, does it contain any additonal footage or at least all the material from the album version?

Sorry about all the non-mando content, but hey, it's Joni and Jaco. She bought one, surely she must have played it somewhere...

Chip

[jim simpson]

Chip,
The album includes: Dreamland & Woodstock. Both are not on the DVD. The DVD does include: Jaco's solo, Raised On Robbery, Black Crow, & Free Man In Paris - all not on the CD.
I had to look at my cd's to realize that I don't have the CD. I guess I could burn one from the DVD. It is so good!
Thank goodness Joni went shopping to Mandolin Bros. thus this thread is reborn!
Jim

[mando_toss_flycoon]

Check out the recent DVD video biography called "Woman of Heart and Mind: Joni Mitchell - A Life Story." Lots of music and a good way to see this complex, beautiful, creative woman close up.

[JGWoods]

I think my favorite to play is "A Case of You". #But a lot of her stuff (especially the earlier stuff) works great on OM. #

And...OK... Blue is one of the best albums of all time, imho.
Agreed Otterly- A case of you is a fabulous piece of work- she let it all hang out there.
It took a lot of living to get there.

PS I just got my 2 mandolins today- reviews in a week or so.

[glauber]

Thanks for this thread. For a long time i've wanted to check out Joni Mitchell, and you gave me some good starting points.

I knew Jaco Pastorius' playing from Weather Report and Word of Mouth. He was incredible. Such a shame to go like he did.

One of the amazing thing in this world of music is how much is there to learn. There's always more.

Thanks!

[otterly2k]

Glauber- I think one of the most interesting things about Joni is how her style and interests developed over time. If you're up for an interesting musical and lyrical adventure, start at the beginning and listen to her music chronologically (by release date). She has done most of the artwork on her albums, so take some time to appreciate that as well. Also, a few years back, a book was put out that is a compilation of her lyrics. All is worth savoring.

a big fan, can you tell?
KE

[Avi Ziv]

I like her early material and the late jazzy stuff too. But for me Court and Spark remains memorable as a really really well-put-together project. The quality of the writing, arrangements, orchestration, musicians - it all came together. It's a very good place to start exploring Joni as well.

Avi

[J. Mark Lane]

Court and Spark was always my favorite.

[otterly2k]

Court and Spark got a lot of radio play and attention... and yeah, it's great no doubt. But to me, Blue is the quintessential Joni. With singer/songwriters, I tend to prefer the sparsely arranged albums that allow the listener to really hear the artist directly.

Just a personal inclination. And some of it has to do with the fact that I listen a lot for guitar technique, tunings, etc. But don't get me wrong. I love it all. In fact, I think it's time to take a journey through the Joni collection...

[Jonathan Reinhardt]

Another great Jaco listen is "The Birthday Concert" (Ft. Lauderdale, 1981)
Powerfully personal event with his FL Word of Mouth crew. WOM had started in Joni's NY apartment, overlapping with Weather Report.

rasa
Jonathan Reinhardt

[J. Mark Lane]

I think it's important to point out that "radio play" was a different kind of animal in the mid-1970's. It's one of the more remarkable things about our "history" that the radio, as a medium for good music, has radically declined in the last 30 years. In 1975, it was possible to listen to *good* music on the radio in just about any city in the US.

That said, I do agree -- "Blue" was (and is) a tremendous album. Before "Court and Spark" etc., I listened a lot to "Blue," as well as to "Ladies of the Canyon" (arguably just as good an album), "For the Roses". I still think those are some of the best "folk" albums of the 60's/70's period, which imo produced some of the best American music ever recorded (and some of the worst <g>).

I remember very clearly, being a huge fan of Joni at the time, when the "jazzy" stuff started coming out. The reaction among my friends was akin to the reaction when Doris Lessing (a favorite author) starting publishing "science fiction" works (in truth, tremendous works of mysticism...as much sci-fi really is): skepticism, rejection, even anger. Joni was moving into the world of "electric music," selling out, etc.

My reaction was different (as with Lessing <g>). I loved the stuff. I liked "Miles of Aisles" (nice live stuff, but with her "jazz band," including some of the best songs from the above albums). "Court and Spark" seemed to continue that "jazz" vein, as did "Hissing of Summer Lawns". I always thought of "Court" and "Hissing" as sort of "sister albums," very similar in instrumentation and overall sound. Those, really, are my two favorite Joni albums. They seemed to "say someting" as a whole, and it was an interesting something, in many ways continuing the "counter-culture" notions that she had started with, but musically more complex.

A couple of years later, when "Hejira" came out, I was already moving away from that kind of music. I had become more interested in "jazz" generally, and was listening to people like Joe Pass, Wes Montgomery, Charlie Christian, etc. (I went through a long jazz phase, most of which is now lost in a cloud of time, alcohol and drugs... <g>). Still, I liked "Hejira" and listened to it a lot. But I lost interest in most of the acoustic music of that period.

Much later, my wife, knowing my past love of Joni, bought me a copy of "Taming the Tiger." I thought it was pretty bad. I haven't listened to everything, but my gut is "Hejira" was about the last really great album she made (who knows what may come, of course).

I still think Joni was and is one of the very best musical artists of "our" time. I think she was a better songwriter than Dylan, a better musician than many of her "folk" contemporaries, and generally a more interesting person than most of them. I recently walked into the living room and my wife was watching some kind of documentary, and there was Joni, playing "Case of You" on a dulcimer and singing like an angel. I was mesmerized. She could really pour herself into a song when she wanted to.

Hm, I wonder -- is it worth asking...who are the comparable artists of today?

[glauber]

Hm, I wonder -- is it worth asking...who are the comparable artists of today?
Nobody? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

I'm a big admirer of Mark Knopfler, as musician, songwriter, singer and player, but he seems to keep some distance between himself and his songs.

(Edit: thinking of which, this may not be a bad thing; the kind of intensely personal involvement with music that we admire is beautiful, but often leads to burnout or premature death. Joni seems to have burned out, at least for the moment. Music is a beautiful thing, but the music industry is corrupt and the life is brutal.)

[fatt-dad]

Hm, I wonder -- is it worth asking...who are the comparable artists of today?
I'm continually impressed with Michael Franti and Spearhead. (Last year they toured with the String Cheese Incident - for mandolin content.)

f-d

[Chip Booth]

My favourite Joni singer/songwriter album is Ladies of the Canyon. #My favourite band album is Don Juan's Reckless Daughter, which I would list as one of my all time favourite albums period. #It's a mixed bag, but I think it all really comes together, and Jaco is as good as I ever heard him. #I think he was at his best when playing a supportive but creative role like this. #If he was still around I bet Jaco would play a mean fretless mandolin http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I can't think of a modern artist who compares to what Joni and a few others from that time were doing. I would love to hear some suggestions.

Chip

[James P]

So the "Pick it like Joni" quote... was that a joke?

I scrolled thru a couple of old threads wondering. Reading the quote in ?'s sig, I've always taken it on face value. In that American Masters documentary there was some early footage of her playing a coffee house gig and her guitar playing was just rock solid.

[Chip Booth]

I don't remember how that got started, but I believe the quote is "credited" to Tony Rice, and yes, I think it's a joke. Nonetheless, her guitar and piano playing is rock solid and wildly inventive, and I only wish I could pick it like Joni Mitchell.

Chip

[jim simpson]

I don't think Joni is burnt out so much as "moved on" from the music biz. I understand that she has shifted more to painting, which she has always done. I imagine smoking has affected Joni's singing voice as witnessed on the last few releases. I heard a recent Judy Collins recording and it sounds like she has lost nothing. Nobody can top Joni for me in all around musicianship. I do think the voice for many folks lowers in register with age. Robert Plant and Jack Bruce both come to mind in the male voice category. Both can still sing well just not able to his those notes of their youth. I don't think Bill Monroe lost his high lonesome pitch so maybe it doesn't apply to everyone. Sorry to ramble - It's hard for me to think of Joni as burn out.

[brunello97]

I don't have any way of confirming this but some of you JM wonks might:
I seem to recall some line in some song of hers about "going to Staten Island to buy a mandolin...." I may have it all confused with someone else, but this record came out just around the time I got turned on to Mandolin Bros.

Badly in need of cash I went out there to try to trade in an EM150 I had. They kind of blew me off. I haven't listened to Joni Mitchell in a long, long time but I still have the Gibson, it sounds better than ever.

Close call.

[jim simpson]

The lyrics came from Song For Sharon:

I went to staten island.
To buy myself a mandolin
And I saw the long white dress of love
On a storefront mannequin

Big boat chuggin back with a belly full of cars...
All for something lacy
Some girls going to see that dress
And crave that day like crazy

The question started in an earlier thread about the line about mandolins in her song. It was reported that she actually ended up buying a mandola.

[otterly2k]

Mark- I agree, Hejira is a masterpiece... but there were a lot of albums between that and Taming the Tiger. And some of them were pretty good... I love Wild Things Run Fast, Night Ride Home, Shadow and Light (live versions of much of Hejira and then some...)...

Anyway, we're splitting hairs I suppose. But I'd encourage you to revisit some of her stuff since Hejira. I agree, it doesn't all stand up to the albums you mention, but some of it definitely does.

Jim- I think you're right about her shifting artistic focus. My understanding from a recent documentary is that she has also re-connected with the daughter she put up for adoption when she was young (the topic of the song Little Green), and is spending some time exploring life as a mom and grandmom.

Really... her legacy is amazing. I hope she is not done making music... but even if she is, she has already created a tremendous body of work... and I find the stuff I don't love immediately has a way of growing on me if I give it a chance to...

KE

[glauber]

Just an aside. I've found Pandora.com (http://pandora.com) a good tool to explore tons of music. For example, here (http://www.pandora.com/?sc=sh10692523) is my "Joni Mitchell" "radio" (which plays songs that are "similar" to Joni's, according to their computer database). Pandora is a great time waster, and with a little tweaking, it's easy to create really nice "radio stations" to listen to at work.

[glauber]

Well, i finally got a few Joni Mitchell albums (Taming the Tiger, Court & Spark, Hits, Misses) and all i can say is: wow! where have i been all these years? Of course part of the reason is that i grew up in another hemisphere, but on the other hand, its truly puzzling how little attention she receives, considering the enormity and the sheer quality of her work. I was thinking today, listening to "Misses", that i would love to see a Joni Mitchell and Sting collaboration. I hope she does some music again.

[otterly2k]

i would love to see a Joni Mitchell and Sting collaboration

Now THAT would be something! Welcome to JM fan-dom, glauber! you're in very good (and numerous)company.

[Philip Halcomb]

The Pick it like Joni Mitchell quote I used to have in my signature credited to Tony Rice came about because there's a live recording from the Birchmere in Alexandria, VA of a super group known by the name "The Acoustic All-Stars" that included Tony Rice, Sam Bush, Bela Fleck, Mark Schatz(sp?), Stewart Duncan, and Jerry Douglas. Well anyway, Jerry Douglas kicked off a real pretty tune and it sounded real sweet, slow and mellow. Then Tony Rice who probably had a couple of beers in him at the time looks over to Jerry and says, "Pick it like Joni Mitchell". http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Chip Booth]

Philip, thanks for clearing that up! I'd love to hear that recording for several obvious reasons.

Chip