To and Froe

[Antlurz]

Thinking about splitting some telephone pole topwood here shortly, and while I have enough odds and ends with sharp edges to get the job done, including a magnificent old antique right handed broadaxe, I've thought for a long time about getting or making a gen-u-wine froe.

Problem is, the market is so scarce for them, the prices for a ready made are outrageous.

Anyone out there have a cheapie solution, other than building your own? No problem building a good one, just lazy if a decent cheapie is available.

Ron

[tree]

If you keep your eyes open, they can often be had for less than the asking price at flea markets, yard sales, and even antique dealers. #Sometimes you can bargain based on the sorry shape of the handle (easy to replace).

The other option is to find a blacksmith and ask him to make you one - it's a pretty simple forge weld for an experienced blacksmith.

[Paul Hostetter]

They're really easy to make. Any appropriately dimensioned high-carbon chunk of steel you can find (try junkyards or steel scrapyards) will work. Unless you intend to make a profession out of this, just get a blade long enough to cover the width you have to rive, grind one edge sharp, take a big hammer and go for for it.

If you're interested in making tools, I love this book by Alexander Weygers (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0898158966/sr=1-2/qid=1138136794/ref=sr_1_2/103-9723972-6269469?%5Fencoding=UTF8).

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0898158966.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

[Antlurz]

If I resort to making one, ideally, if I could find a piece of straight automotive leaf spring, I'd be happy. Barring that, it wouldn't have to be too exotic.

And yes, I love building my own tools to suit what >I< want out of them http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Gonna check out that link! Thanks!

Ooops. Now I see it's a book, not a link.

Ron

[sunburst]

I've looked for a good froe for years, and everything I find in junk stores is too short, too expensive, or both. I have a couple of truck leaf springs with big round eyes in the ends, and I've though of making one from one of those. Spring steel is not my favorite thing to work with, though, and I'd really prefer a tapered eye.

[arbarnhart]

You can get a shingle froe for about $35 (http://www.aloghomestore.com/tools1.shtml). I can't say how suitable it would be, but I shake shingles are not all that different in size or wood source from top halves.

[John Bertotti]

Garrett Wade had some for about 60 bucks. I'd just make one.
Garrett Wade (http://www.garrettwade.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=107016&itemType=PRODUCT&iMainCat=0&iSubCat=0&iProductID=107016)

[PaulD]

I haven't made or bought a froe, but somewhere I had read that the leaf spring was the ticket. I think it's in an early Woodwright's Shop book or maybe an early episode. I would think it would hold a decent edge, and a mild twist when levering the wedges apart would probably straighten itself.

I would imagine an imaginative individual could improvise something with a gas lawnmower blade as well.

Another option is to get yourself some traditional wedges and a sledge hammer. I've got one wedge that was made for splitting logs and several others that I don't know what they were for, but they work great. You can work one wedge in the end, then start working down the logs opening up the crack with wedges from the sides. I've actually used an axe head as a wedge but that's not desirable.. you don't want hard steel that's might turn to shrapnel when you slam it with a sledge.

EDIT: At $60 the Garrett Wade froe might not be a bad deal... it just depends on how much time you've got vs. how much money. I saw this Gransfors Bruks Froe (http://www.tools-for-woodworking.com/browseproducts/Gransfors-Bruks-Froe.html) for about $100. Looks nice but spendy...

Paul Doubek

[Antlurz]

That shingle froe Andy linked to looks like a pretty good deal for the money, which also happens to be about the cheapest I've seen, money wise.

Ron

[woodwiz]

I have a couple I bought at flea markets for $10 or $15 each. #They are the right size for splitting shakes.

If I needed something bigger, I'd fire up the grill and get an old leaf spring, and a piece of railroad iron for an anvil. The forging is really easy, but you would probably need to read up on hardening and tempering; it's not as straightforward as it would appear. NOt that it's critical on a froe......

You could also use a maul and wedges to accomplish the same thing.

A broadaxe is for dressing timbers; I don't think it would be much good for splitting.

[Paul Hostetter]

Leaf spring steel is excellent, but most leaf springs are curved. You can of course straighten a piece of it with a forge and an anvil. Construction grade steel strap is of similar steel, basically angle iron with no angle, and comes already flat. If you want to get the show on the road, this is a 15-incher from Lehman's:

http://www.lehmans.com/images/us/local/products/detail/37-637.f.jpg

I did some riving with an amended lawnmower blade, no handle.

Bruce Harvie does this all the time, but he's in Thailand right now.

[Paul Hostetter]

http://www.retiredtractors.com/tools/pix/TheFroe2.jpg

Bamboo froe:

http://www.ehardwicks.com/images/WebProducts/Partials/AMS-07045.jpg

[arbarnhart]

I have a couple I bought at flea markets for $10 or $15 each. They are the right size for splitting shakes.

If I needed something bigger, I'd fire up the grill and get an old leaf spring, and a piece of railroad iron for an anvil. The forging is really easy, but you would probably need to read up on hardening and tempering; it's not as straightforward as it would appear. NOt that it's critical on a froe......

You could also use a maul and wedges to accomplish the same thing.

A broadaxe is for dressing timbers; I don't think it would be much good for splitting.

I have tried the maul and wedges idea. It will work but you get less control; zig zag cracks that don't cross center and stuff like that (or at least I did).

[Antlurz]

I have tried the maul and wedges idea. It will work but you get less control; zig zag cracks that don't cross center and stuff like that (or at least I did).
That would be pretty typical. Besides the pressure all being exerted in a couple of inches width, it will tend to ruin the fist inch or so of the board from compression.

(neat illustration, Paul.)

Ron

[sunburst]

Even if you do need to use wedges, the froe gives your split a straight start, and saves wood.

Paul, I've experimented with blacksmithing leaf spring steel years ago, (had to quit - tendonitis) and found that it needed to be tempered rather thoroughly, or it was brittle after the heat of the forge. I can't get my kitchen oven hotter than blue, that is, steel comes out blue. That's still spring temper, I think, maybe that's good enough.

[Stephen Perry]

Proper froe is well worth while. I have a nice blacksmithed one, given me by a friend. He made it. I don't know anything about it except it works perfectly.

[Bill Halsey]

Antlurz, in your part of the country, you may be able to find a farmer who would part with an old hay chopper blade. Ask around. Primitive, but I bet it would get you there with gloves on.

[Antlurz]

You're right. Between farm impliments, and iron piles, and junk yards, any sort of material is available to make one. My problem has become my mobility over the past few years, so I don't do a lot of scrounging like I once did. Can't stand up for any length of time. Especially standing in one spot.

When I head for the saws, drill presses, etc, in the shop nowdays, I like to have it all figured out before I get there. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Need to saw off all the legs to chair height. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

In fact I have a large chunk of stainless in the garage that would work just fine for no more than I would use it. That stuff is tough. (murder to grind into shape, however.)

Ron

[tree]

Making a froe is a bit of an adventure. #I took a weekend blacksmithing-for-beginners class at the John Campbell Folk School in Brasstown, NC a few years ago, and talked the instructor into helping me make a small froe out of mild steel. #Mild steel really doesn't have enough carbon in it to make it strong enough to not twist under the types of loads that splitting dry hardwood can put on a froe, but it forge welds a good bit easier than high carbon steel (leaf springs and such are high carbon steel). #

Believe me, for a novice, the forge welding is the tricky part. #You have to prepare the joint, which involves bending the steel to form the eye and scarfing the joint so that the piece you want to join is evenly tapered toward the end. You coat the prepared joint with flux, to keep the joint from becoming contaminated with impurities from the fire. You have to slowly heat the steel to white hot, which is a specific temperature just shy of burning up like a sparkler. #If you burn the steel, you've ruined it and have to start over from scratch. #You only have a couple of seconds to grab the piece with some tongs, transfer the prepared joint to the anvil and hit it in the right place, with the right amount of force. #If done properly, the two pieces of steel actually become one and the molten flux shoots out of the sides of the joint in all directions, like fireworks!

For a novice, this is difficult. #For an experienced blacksmith, piece of cake. My instructor was fantastic, he really set me up for success and talked me right through it. I now have a froe that is fine for light splitting of smallish, greenish billets. #

Prior to this, I had a machinist make a froe for me by welding a steel blade to a ring; that froe failed at the weld within a month. But, I don't build mandos (I just think about it), and my piddling around with woodworking and blacksmithing is fairly erratic.

Tempering a piece of steel, BTW, is not as difficult as it sounds. #That book (The Complete Modern Blacksmith) is one of my favorite all time references (along with everything Roy Underhill ever put out). #You can find specific directions for tempering steel in that book.

[testore]

I bought one from Woodcraft.IT SUCKED!!!!!!!! It bent the first time I used it. Buy a good one or make it.
Gary

[arbarnhart]

Gary,

Do you know what brand you had? How heavy was your mallet?

-Andy

[Paul Hostetter]

I'd make it, if I thought I'd use it much, because I have a forge and an anvil and big grinders already. And forge welding is unnecessary if you have a torch. Even making a socket for a handle is unnecessary if it's going to be a one-use event anyway.

Good to know the Woodcraft one was substandard. The one from Lehman's, pictured in my post above, was like $30 and it's 15" wide - this struck me as a good deal. Splitting telephone pole pine can't be that challenging (unless you hit a nail). You have to balance what your time is worth against how much time you want to spend in a process relative to what you want as an outcome. Life is brief enough. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[arbarnhart]

Here is a link to the one Paul mentioned (http://www.lehmans.com/jump.jsp?itemType=PRODUCT&itemID=2191&iSubCat=847&iMainCat=677&pid=2191). It is currently $39.95, but the $35 I posted a link to before is just one I found and bookmarked because I have been thinking about getting one. It may well be worth another $5 to get one that Paul has actually seen and looked like a good deal.

[oldwave maker]

Ron- if you're splitting phonepole for tops it should be large enough diameter to get inside the creosote or preservative. cut up some splits of 1880's cedar telegraph
pole and there was an inch or 2 of weird smelling yellower wood on the outside.
used to split with this homemade leafspring when there was still oldgrowth engelmann coming out of the colorado national forests:

[John Bertotti]

I can see using the froe for billets but when splitting for a glue up dimension how many of you use a froe instead of a bandsaw?