Post a Picture of Your Bowlback (or any others) [Archive] - Page 4

Jim Garber

Apr-16-2012, 8:18am

I bought this nameless italian Mando for a few bucks.
It needs a little restauration. For now it is only deco. The tuners don't turn anymore.
I think i buy this (http://www.thomann.de/at/dixon_mandoline_mechanik_set.htm)ones.

Before you buy those new tuners you might try a little bit of oil on the ones that are on the mandolin. Also, those tuners might be fine but the spacing of the posts may not be exactly the same as your old mandolin. If you can buy the new tuners in a store with the mandolin there that would be better.

From the fragment of the label and the type of tailpiece I would guess that your mandolin was made in Germany, not Italy.

billkilpatrick

Apr-16-2012, 8:29am

Bill: you could have saved me some searching by just posting the eBay item#. The eBay listing (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mandolin-mandolino-mandoline-SUPERTONE-SING-/280859108075?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Sting_Instr uments&hash=item416481e2eb) is here. Your seller is in Finland but it looks to me that the mandolin was made, or at least patented in Germany I think that is what Gesch. means something like manufacturer -- I really do not know German. We need Martin here.

Here are the pics. It says Superton Sing not Supertone. No relation at all to the Sears line. Also, i would guess that this dates much later than the US Supertones, maybe 1950s or even later. It does look interesting with that vertical soundhole -- I like that and a very deep bowl. Let us know how it is when it arrives.

thank you jim - you're a marvel, with your internet know-how. of course i'll post pictures and sound sample when it arrives but ... i really must learn to pay more attention to detail. thanks again!

riffhard

Apr-16-2012, 8:32am

Before you buy those new tuners you might try a little bit of oil on the ones that are on the mandolin. Also, those tuners might be fine but the spacing of the posts may not be exactly the same as your old mandolin. If you can buy the new tuners in a store with the mandolin there that would be better.

From the fragment of the label and the type of tailpiece I would guess that your mandolin was made in Germany, not Italy.

Thanks Jim. The Label says "Musikhaus Kratochwil, 1020 Wien Taborstraße". This shop does not exist anymore. And I could not find any info about it on the web. I think this is only the label of the seller, don't think that they built it.
I live in Vienna. Mandolines are rather exotic instruments here. :( So i'm afraid i have to order the new tuners. Could not find anything at the Website of Klangfarbe, which is the biggest musicstore in Vienna. If they dont fit i will return them.
The pic's are a few weeks old, i already tried it with oil, forgot to mention.

riffhard

Apr-16-2012, 8:44am

Bill: you could have saved me some searching by just posting the eBay item#. The eBay listing (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mandolin-mandolino-mandoline-SUPERTONE-SING-/280859108075?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Sting_Instr uments&hash=item416481e2eb) is here. Your seller is in Finland but it looks to me that the mandolin was made, or at least patented in Germany I think that is what Gesch. means something like manufacturer -- I really do not know German. We need Martin here.

Here are the pics. It says Superton Sing not Supertone. No relation at all to the Sears line. Also, i would guess that this dates much later than the US Supertones, maybe 1950s or even later. It does look interesting with that vertical soundhole -- I like that and a very deep bowl. Let us know how it is when it arrives.

"Gesch." does not mean manufacturer. If it should be "Geschäft" it means "shop".
What's the word before Gesch.? Can't read that on the pic.

Jim Garber

Apr-16-2012, 8:50am

"Gesch." does not mean manufacturer. If it should be "Geschäft" it means "shop".
What's the word before Gesch.? Can't read that on the pic.

I think it says: "PATENTANTL. GESCH." then the number underneath. I have quite a few old German instrument catalogs and the companies sometimes have Gesch. after them, so you can see my confusion.

Jim Garber

Apr-16-2012, 9:01am

Thanks Jim. The Label says "Musikhaus Kratochwil, 1020 Wien Taborstraße". This shop does not exist anymore. And I could not find any info about it on the web. I think this is only the label of the seller, don't think that they built it.
I live in Vienna. Mandolines are rather exotic instruments here. :( So i'm afraid i have to order the new tuners. Could not find anything at the Website of Klangfarbe, which is the biggest musicstore in Vienna. If they dont fit i will return them.
The pic's are a few weeks old, i already tried it with oil, forgot to mention.

It still looks German to me. There are tailpieces like that usually stamped Marcelli but made in Germany. See here (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?17080-Who-made-this-mandola&p=207383&viewfull=1#post207383) and here (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?52795-Looking-for-info-on-my-mandolin&p=688962&viewfull=1#post688962).

Strange... I would think that those tuners not having rust would be turnable. Have you taken them off the mandolin to try them?

brunello97

Apr-16-2012, 9:04am

My guess is that the gesch. in this case is an abbreviation for geschützt which means 'protected' as in patent protected or something like that. Ma sto sparando al buio. My German skills remain an embarrassment. Kooky looking mandolin, Bill. I look forward to hearing it.

Mick

riffhard

Apr-16-2012, 9:05am

I think it says: "PATENTANTL. GESCH." then the number underneath. I have quite a few old German instrument catalogs and the companies sometimes have Gesch. after them, so you can see my confusion.

Ok, so it means "geschützt". In combination with Patent this simply does mean it is protected by patent no ....

Now i can read it. It says: "Patentamtlich geschützt".
Patentamt = patent office
geschützt = protected

riffhard

Apr-16-2012, 9:10am

It still looks German to me. There are tailpieces like that usually stamped Marcelli but made in Germany. See here (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?17080-Who-made-this-mandola&p=207383&viewfull=1#post207383) and here (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?52795-Looking-for-info-on-my-mandolin&p=688962&viewfull=1#post688962).

Strange... I would think that those tuners not having rust would be turnable. Have you taken them off the mandolin to try them?

Than most likly it is a german one. I called it italian because that is what the person i bought it from told me. :redface:
Yes, i took the tuners off. They are even very hard to turn without any string tension. I think they are bend.

jlatorre

Apr-16-2012, 10:04pm

Well, it's not exactly a mandolin but it's a bowl-back.

I thought I'd try my hand at making a Renaissance Mandore, which is the ancestor of the mandolin. Here's a picture of what I came up with:

85141

The rosette was a cheat; I ordered one already laser-cut from a supplier. And although it first had gut frets, i found them to be too much a pain in the ass, so I substituted standard frets.

Here's a picture of it from the rear:

85142

jlatorre

Apr-16-2012, 10:13pm

I forgot to add that the woods are maple and rosewood, with a spruce soundboard and a maple neck. The rosette is padauk. The internal bracing is fairly modern ... X-bracing with some fans at the bridge. Right now I have it strung with Aquila "nyl-gut" stringing, tuned like a conventional mandolin, but since the E string wants to break, I may have to re-think that.

Ignore the pictures. They're for another mandolin I made. I pasted them into this missive by mistake and now I can't figure out how to delete them. Sorry.

Jim Garber

Apr-17-2012, 10:19pm

billkilpatrick

Apr-18-2012, 2:35am

wow! ... i paid £86 - nothing like an absent zero to make the heart grow fonder. c.a.wunderlich - i'll look for the name when the mandolin arrives - giuseppe in finland (love it) says he sent it yesterday. thanks, jim - really appreciate it

Jim Garber

Apr-18-2012, 7:29am

I have a C.A. Wunderlich catalog from my friend in Austria, but that is an earlier one from the 1920s I think, and this mandolin does not appear in it.

billkilpatrick

Apr-18-2012, 8:20am

assuming mine is associated with him, both appear to be from the 1950's - you've really done it now, can't wait for it to get here and this is italy, afterall, with italian postal snafu's galore ...

Martin Jonas

Apr-18-2012, 8:30am

Hey, Bill I found another one similar to your Superton with a Wunderlich label on eBay Germany (http://www.ebay.com/itm/beautiful-german-Mandolin-C-A-Wunderlich-ca-1950-/330712296970?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4cfffd2e0a#ht_4502wt_1082). If that is the going price, you did quite well.

Well, that one is a Buy-It-Now that nobody has bought yet, so not much indication of market value.

I do agree that Bill's looks rather nice -- I'll be interested to hear his impressions. From what I can make out, C.A. Wunderlich was a fairly prominent instrument wholesaler/distributor, not a maker. Thus, their business model would have been similar to that of Zimmermann -- they commissioned smaller makers in the Vogtland region to make instruments for them at various market/price points. Some, but not all, of their instruments (and probably the lower end of the range) may have been made in factory-like manufactures wholly owned by them.

Bill's instrument looks rather upmarket -- few German mandolins have a proper fretboard extension and those that do were usually intended for players who can actually play up there, i.e. the top end.

Martin

Jim Garber

Apr-18-2012, 8:37am

I guess it is a going price assuming it actually goes. :)

I do like that Edvard Munch vertical hole and look fwd to the report of sound and playability when it does arrive, Bill.

billkilpatrick

Apr-18-2012, 10:07am

... me too. edvard munch - hah!

thanks martin - all knowledge gratefully received

riffhard

Apr-18-2012, 2:12pm

Hey, Bill I found another one similar to your Superton with a Wunderlich label on eBay Germany (http://www.ebay.com/itm/beautiful-german-Mandolin-C-A-Wunderlich-ca-1950-/330712296970?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4cfffd2e0a#ht_4502wt_1082). If that is the going price, you did quite well.

The one on eBay must be the Mando equivalent to an original 59 Gibson Les Paul. :))
Beside of eBay you find old Mandolines in Austria also at Willhaben.
Here is one (http://www.willhaben.at/iad/kaufen-und-verkaufen/freizeit-hobby-kulinarik/mandoline-mit-tasche-38421874?adId=38421874) that looks a bit like the one on ebay. I don't think he will get the price he wants.
Or this (http://www.willhaben.at/iad/kaufen-und-verkaufen/freizeit-hobby-kulinarik/mandoline-mit-koffer-38421445?adId=38421445) one from same seller. And another (http://www.willhaben.at/iad/kaufen-und-verkaufen/freizeit-hobby-kulinarik/neapolitanische-mandoline-ca-1920-38420534?adId=38420534) one.
Or what about this one (http://www.willhaben.at/iad/kaufen-und-verkaufen/freizeit-hobby-kulinarik/alte-mandoline-37523027?adId=37523027)?

billkilpatrick

Apr-18-2012, 5:29pm

just what i - or anyone else - needs ... more tempting sites, selling mandolins

pleased to meet you riffhard - this could be the start of a very expensive friendship ...

riffhard

Apr-19-2012, 3:41am

What else would you do with the money? Spend it on useless things like food or cloth? :grin:

billkilpatrick

Apr-19-2012, 4:21am

i'm in shock! - mandolin arrived in 3 days ... this is italy!?! - some signs of repair and refinishing, which was very well done - has the characteristic delicate, brittle sound but less so - happy-chappy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwMhd75FJQE

Martin Jonas

Apr-19-2012, 4:59am

Congratulations, Bill -- that looks and sounds a really nice bowlback, especially straight out of the box via Ebay! Great bargain at that price.

Martin

billkilpatrick

Apr-19-2012, 5:18am

grazie martino! - video has elongated the image somewhat - don't have the other for comparrison's sake but the bowl seems deeper on this one; sound board a little broader at the base

Jim Garber

Apr-19-2012, 8:18am

You did good, Bill. Sounds nice already. What strings will you use?

billkilpatrick

Apr-19-2012, 11:09am

thanks jim - at the moment, his - but (somewhere?) i'll buy a set of dogal calace (light) strings

billkilpatrick

Apr-19-2012, 1:37pm

... just did - on italian ebay - dogal calace RW92B DOLCE

Jim Garber

Jun-24-2012, 8:06pm

brunello97

Jun-24-2012, 9:00pm

This one is still available on eBay Germany (http://www.ebay.com/itm/330748054967).

I have to listen to a lot of German spoken on a regular basis. No offense, but it isn't exactly samba to my ears. But then again sometimes something like this comes along:

Der Hals ist aus Ahorn.

Amazing.

Mick

mando1man

Jun-27-2012, 6:27pm

Here's my 1905 Martin Style 5
8850888509

mando1man

Jun-27-2012, 6:28pm

8851088511

mando1man

Jun-27-2012, 6:29pm

8851288513

Jim Garber

Jun-27-2012, 10:16pm

Here's my 1905 Martin Style 5

That is a real beaut, mando1man! Amazing condition.

brunello97

Jun-28-2012, 12:47am

That is a real beaut, mando1man! Amazing condition.

Even the Clown Shoe is in perfect shape. That is really something.

Mick

mando1man

Jun-28-2012, 11:20am

Thanks fellers. I got it from a gal that plays in a mandolin orchestra in Washington state. She said that seh was selling it to buy a Gilchrist dola. It's set up nice and has a very cool tone. And it was not expensive :-) It came with the original leather case (rare) and a new one.
88537

Eugene

Jul-02-2012, 11:39pm

I'd be happy to take it off your hands slightly less cheaply, mando1man! [Inset slyly winking emoticon of your choice here.]

Jim Garber

Jul-03-2012, 8:34am

I'd be happy to take it off your hands slightly less cheaply, mando1man! [Inset slyly winking emoticon of your choice here.]

For those who do not know, Mr. Eugene Braig, among other achievements, is the originator of the term "clown shoe case."

roady43

Jul-07-2012, 10:31am

Latest acquisition is this German bowlback made from flamed apple (extremely rare!). I fell in love with it as soon as I saw it at the makers place in February (when I picked up my Embergher which he had repaired). So he left me with it since and I played a lot of performances with it.

roady43

brunello97

Jul-07-2012, 12:07pm

Jim Garber

Jul-07-2012, 1:00pm

roady43: Yes, any reason you would keep the name of the maker secret? Please so let us know who he/she is. It looks, from the photos, that this is impeccable workmanship.

Also, I believe that there is a wide difference -- almost polar opposites -- between the Embergher mandolin and the German styles including, neck shape, tone and approach to playing. Do you play particular kinds of music with each type of mandolin?

roady43

Jul-07-2012, 4:57pm

Very nice, Roady43. I think it has a clean yet dynamic look. The slight asymmetry is appealing to me as well. The fruitwood is beautiful. At first glance, I thought it was cherry. Where is the builder from?

Mick

roady43: Yes, any reason you would keep the name of the maker secret? Please so let us know who he/she is. It looks, from the photos, that this is impeccable workmanship.

Thank you Mick and Jim.
In fact I didn't want to keep the builders name secret but he asked me not to be "published". So I waited with putting up pictures here until I owned the mandolin, which is since yesterday. He even didn't put a label inside the mandolin, he is not in the internet and builds intruments only on special request. He has his workshop only a few kilometers from where I live.

Because of his extraordinary craftmanship I ordered another mandolin from him which will be finished at the end of the year: black Rio palisander bowl with thin maple filings, spruce top with black Rio scratchboard and a special peghead kit that allows exchangeable stringing (wood or machine pegs, different number of courses, gut or steel strings). Exchangeable nut and bridge, only 4 bone pins for the strings... Very exciting. I've never seen or heard something similar and I'm very happy that he accepted the experiment with my crazy "invention". My goal was to have the possibility of no metal parts on it. A security exit is build in as well: if this fails (because tuning could become a real issue, specially when wood pegs are combined with steel strings!) the peghaed always can be transformed into an ordinary machine head.

roady43

roady43

Jul-07-2012, 5:53pm

Also, I believe that there is a wide difference -- almost polar opposites -- between the Embergher mandolin and the German styles including, neck shape, tone and approach to playing. Do you play particular kinds of music with each type of mandolin?

I love to play the Embergher very much and like to practise on it. The fretboard is very comfortable for me (coming from the violin) and it is much easier to reach the high notes because of the slim shape of the body. The sound is bright and clear, in colors I would call it silvery. Very good sustain and the basses are astonishly strong. I played it once in Otello in January. Nice for the Italian repertoire. I might need it for Don Giovanni (on period instruments) but then will put on the Lenzner Cosnort or even gut strings. Still looking for a Vinaccia of the 1790s for that.

As you say the differences between the 2 types are quite obvious.

The German bowlback was played in concerts and opera performances all the time during the last 6 month. Perfect for Romeo and Juliet (Prokofiew) playing from the pit. No problem to come through against the trumpets...
The sound is brilliant, strong, round and remembers a bit at the sound of a cembalo.

roady43

Tavy

Jul-08-2012, 3:28am

Can I just say, that's one sweet looking bowl - love the tailpiece inlay - definitely a head scratcher working out how that was done! :)

Jim Garber

Jul-08-2012, 11:02am

In fact I didn't want to keep the builders name secret but he asked me not to be "published". So I waited with putting up pictures here until I owned the mandolin, which is since yesterday. He even didn't put a label inside the mandolin, he is not in the internet and builds intruments only on special request. He has his workshop only a few kilometers from where I live.

Strange that the maker with such talent would want to avoid even a modicum of fame. Oh well.

roady43

Jul-08-2012, 6:30pm

Strange that the maker with such talent would want to avoid even a modicum of fame. Oh well.

Yes but he is extremely modest, not to say shy and not longing for fame. The other point is, that he had decided to spend as much time as possible for another field he is very involved and successful: sculptures. He is not so young anymore and can't accept to many orders for building mandolins and wants avoid any pressure. At the moment his priority is his artistry as sculptor (the finish of many details of my mandolin tell a lot, e.g. armrest).

roady43

Jim Garber

Jul-09-2012, 8:59am

You are lucky to know him and have been able to convince him to build for you.

brunello97

Jul-09-2012, 9:09am

You are lucky to know him and have been able to convince him to build for you.

He remains an International Luthier of Mystery.

Mick

roady43

Jul-18-2012, 5:54am

Little sound sample with my new German bowlback. Some bars of the 1. Mandolin Part of Prokofiews Morning Serenade from Romeo and Juliet. Unplugged recording in 40sq.m. living room...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNoQm8dgLQA&feature=youtu.be

roady43

Jim Garber

Jul-18-2012, 10:11am

Cute little tune...not so easy to play, eh?

For our convenience:

Eugene

Aug-25-2012, 2:12pm

Not quite mandolin, but I'd posted images of my weird, rib-backed vihuela way back in 2005, pre-restoration. Chad Neal, mentioned below, completely rebuilt it on the original shell. If anybody happens to be curious, detail can be had at this page of Chad's blog site (http://www.neallutes.com/2009/09/vihuela-for-eugene-eugene-brought-me.html).

Eugene

Aug-25-2012, 2:27pm

This guy has gotten a little discussion elsewhere. It's a ca. 1910s Favilla Bros. piece that cam to me from Fred Oster's Vintage Instruments, Inc (http://www.vintage-instruments.com/). This photo montage is from that shop:

90868

It's a bit quirky. The neck is actually wider than the bowl at the join, and the overhang is decoratively bound. The bridge was a bit beyond functionality because of some warping and cracking. It did not come to me with the bridge pictured here, but rather shipped with a period Vega bridge that didn't quite fit. The soundboard is built for excellent structural integrity and is strongly arched, and the Vega bridge's points are thus left floating in space.

52 ribs, 25 frets, plenty of ornamental pearl--but not too much... I like that the fingerboard eschews ornament, but there are position markers set for the player, along the edge's binding. Whoever commissioned this evidently did so as much for it to be really played as to show off.

It's currently off to my buddy Chad's shop (http://www.neallutes.com/) for some very minor restoration: new bridge, some fingerboard work in upper positions (the extension frets out above 19), replacing a little missing pearl, etc.

What I'd really like to know is who was "M.V.B." as engraved on the shield in the scratchplate? I'm guessing those to be initials of whoever commissioned the original build and suspect that person was based in New York.

Tavy

Aug-26-2012, 3:42am

That's one nice looking bowl!

Eugene

Aug-27-2012, 12:04pm

Thanks, Tavy!

Jim Garber

Aug-27-2012, 1:19pm

What I'd really like to know is who was "M.V.B." as engraved on the shield in the scratchplate? I'm guessing those to be initials of whoever commissioned the original build and suspect that person was based in New York.

Martin Van Buren....???? Nah! Tho I would imagine that this person was a decent player or fancied him or her self so since they had an extended fretboard. Maybe a good thorough looking thru concert listings from the period would find such a person. Then again, it could also have been a wealthy amateur.

Eugene

Aug-27-2012, 2:38pm

Hmmm, a potential presidential affiliation is certainly intriguing, but I think ol' Marty predated this piece by a few years.

barryhall

Sep-19-2012, 7:57pm

Here are some photos of my German "Superton Sing" mandola (i.e., viola scale, not mandolin). I am just getting ready to post it on eBay. Anyone interested?
Barry

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Jim Garber

Sep-20-2012, 8:33am

Here are some photos of my German "Superton Sing" mandola (i.e., viola scale, not mandolin). I am just getting ready to post it on eBay. Anyone interested?
Barry

What is the scale length?

barryhall

Sep-21-2012, 11:39am

It's 17.5 inches from bridge to the zero fret. Body is 16 inches and total length is 31 inches. The bowl is really deep (8 inches) which gives it a very resonant tone. Seems to me that it is intended for viola/mandola tuning (CGDA) which is how I have it currently tuned. Sound right to you? The headstock has an impressed name in script that appears to say "Gläsel." As you can see in the photos, the soundboard says "Superton Sing." On the side of the body is impressed "PATENTAMTL GESCH. 1194879" which I assume is a German patent indicator. Does anyone know more about this maker, probable age, etc.?

Martin Jonas

Sep-21-2012, 12:09pm

"Superton Sing" was a brand name used by C.A. Wunderlich, one of the large musical instruments wholesalers/distributors based in Markneukirchen in Saxony/Germany. Gläsel is a common surname in the Markneukirchen/Vogtland region and there were a whole raft of violin and guitar makers with that surname -- presumably one of them made instruments with this headstock logo and distributed them through Wunderlich. Here are photos of three guitars with the same headstock logo I found online:

91757

Because of the use of the Superton Sing logo, I would think your mandola is probably 1930s -- Wunderlich disappeared from the scene after 1945.

Martin

brunello97

Sep-21-2012, 6:39pm

Those arch tops are pretty hip, Martin. Check the recurve on those.

Didn't Bill K pick up a Sing bowl back mandolin a short while back that we were talking about? The longitudinal sound hole looks familiar.

Mick

barryhall

Sep-22-2012, 5:01pm

Yes. Mine looks like Bill's but my mandola is a lot larger than his mandolin. I wonder if mine was intended for viola tuning CGDA or octave mandolin GDAE. Here's a video of Bill's:
http://youtu.be/PwMhd75FJQE

Didn't Bill K pick up a Sing bowl back mandolin a short while back that we were talking about? The longitudinal sound hole looks familiar.

Mick

JCM

Sep-27-2012, 10:07am

Jim, this mandolin sat in an un-airconditioned boat house in Titusville Florida for at least 60 years!92015920169201792018920199202092021

Jim Garber

Sep-27-2012, 10:37am

Craig: That is a nice one and it looks like it is in good shape. I like the compensated bridge and the monogram on the headstock. Yours is a simply adorned model but made by one of the top three shops in Italy. Was your grandfather a player?

JCM

Sep-27-2012, 1:29pm

Jim, my grandfather sure was a player. I have pictures of him at Norwich Univ. circa 1916 playing in his dorm room. Then some in his orange groves near Titusville, FL. He was one of the civil engineers who laid out the launch pad sites for the Apollo rockets. Thanks for helping me uncover this family mystery!

I think I'll get this mandolin restored and display it in a china type cabinet...then buy myself a starter mandolin to learn on:)