String Tension

[Milan Christi]

Is there a standard rule of thumb for how much string tension a mandolin can/should handle? I just put FT-74s on my Gibson A1 (without a truss rod) and am concerned that I could experience a structural failure because the pressure is so different from strings I had on before. My concern is for the neck and bridge.

I've been noting different string tensions based on data I've gathered from various string vendors. I've added the combined string tensions (measured in pounds) and multiplied by 2 (for 2 strings/course) and came up with the cumulative tensions below.

TI-Mittel - 255
J62 - 275
Sam Bush - 292
TI-Stark - 303
J67 - 330
J-74 - 384
FT-74 - 385

Do I need to be worried? Or am I looking at this subject from an entirely wrong perspective?

Milan

[John Flynn]

Most people tend to put lighter strings on instruments like that, not just for structural integrity, but because those instruments also tend to sound better with lighter strings. Some instruments "like" heavier stings, others like lighter ones. The FTs would not be my choice, especially for that instrument. There was a recent thread on good oval strings. Some popular oval choices that are also low-tension are:
LaBella JM-11
Martin 80/20 Bronze
Dogal Calace RW-92
GHS Bright Bronze PF250

[Bob DeVellis]

I'd worry more about the top than theneck. Those old (I'm not sure what year yours is) Gibson necksare very sturdy. If a top brace has come a bit loose (or does), on the other hand, the top will sink, which isn't a good thing. THere seem to be a lot more old Gibsons with sunken tops (so much so that sellers often claim that it's normal) than with bent necks. I've always preferred something lighter than J74s on old Gibson oval-holes for their sound and feel under the fingers. The extra protection they afford the instrument is an extra.

[Dfyngravity]

Is that really the string tension on a mandolin? That seems like a lot. I thought J74s have roughly 190lbs of string tension? Or am I way off here?

If you are ever in question whether your mandolin can handle the tension or not I would stay with the lighter tension strings. Personally I wouldn't want to put the top of a nice old Gibson Oval hole mandolin in jepordy.

[John Flynn]

Is that really the string tension on a mandolin? That seems like a lot. I thought J74s have roughly 190lbs of string tension? Or am I way off here?
Good catch. Using D'Addario's numbers off the packaging, J74s only come up to 181.6 for 8 strings. All his numbers are off. But the basic advice in this thread is still good.

[Milan Christi]

As I said - I'm seeking some understanding and I appreciate your feedback.

OK - strike one for my bad data. As I said, I doubled the total number because I thought the tension was measured per string. My ignorance.

I've got some JM-11s on order and I'm anxious to try them given the positive rap they receive here. I had an extra set of FT-74s lying about and thought I'd give them a try because I prefer my own ears as final judgment. But I was concerned about the potential for structurtal failure which is an opinion that has been apparently supported.

In fact the flattops don't sound very good on the mando right now and the increase in guage has diminshed the ease of playing. A bad first impression to say the least.

Thanks for the responses! I appreciate the help and I feel a little smarter.

Milan

[John Rosett]

i'v always wondered what strings the old gibson mandolins were originally shipped with. anybody have any idea on teens gibson string gauges and tension?
when i got my 1913 A, i tried the TI's, ghs silk and steel, the FT74's, and settled on the good old J74's as the best sounding. in 2 years of steady use, i haven't had any problems or noticed any changes in the mandolin (knock on spruce). maybe someday i'll try some of the other brands mentioned above, but for now i'm happy with the J74's.

[Jim Broyles]

Here's a String Tension Calculator (http://www.mcdonaldstrings.com/stringxxiii.html)

You can enter in the note so if you cross tune you can figure how much tension is on your mando.

[Milan Christi]

Mandorose - I've wondered the same thing myself about the strings available at the turn of the century. Methinks we're a bit spoiled these days. I hope someone can shed some light on the subject.

jbmando - that's a very cool calculator - thanks!

jflynnstl, bobd and Dfyngravity - I went back to my Excel chart and saw the error of my ways. I doubled my already doubled numbers - no wonder I was paranoid! Thanks again for your time!! Much obliged am I. (And I'll be changing out those flattops very soon.)

[Paul Hostetter]

Gibsons were originally shipped with fairly hefty strings, about the same as J-74s. I've seen a number that still had factory strings on 6-8 decades later, and they were doing just fine. The necks on old Gibsons are quite stout, moreover the tops are generally very generous as well. There's a reason why there are so many old Gibsons still in action: they were engineered well and built really heavy to take a beating. There was a brief period when they tried thinner tops (what came to be called pillow-tops) but there are very few of those around (anymore) and of the survivors, most are really obvious. You can calculate tensions all day, but if you have a 75-year-old mandolin, it's unlikely you're going to overpower the top at all, no matter what strings you put on it.

[Milan Christi]

Thanks, Paul! I didn't know anything about these old timers but I did know the fellow that had mine for thirty years is not the kind of fellow who would give a lick about such things as too much tension. So I felt somewhat confident that I wasn't going to do any harm.

More than anything I very much appreciate the time the folks here devote to advising those of us with less of an experience base. This resource is invaluable to me. Thanks again!!
Milan

[acousticphd]

Milan,

I also play a teens Gibson A and A1, and I use the equivalent of J74s (ie, phosphor bronze and steels, gauges of 11s - 40s). The FTs ARE stiffer, though the numbers you initially had were off.
I temporally tried some FTs, and used a lighter set (something like 10s - 34s with a wound A string), both to make the playabity feel similar as well as keep the tension down.

I don't personally think you should hesitate to use J74s or equivalents on an old Gibson A on account of tension. They sound good to me too.

[Milan Christi]

Thanks, Jeff! Maybe the fact that the FTs are "stiffer" is the reason I'm not comfortable with them. I bought three sets - two were on my Weber for back-to-back string changes and I always felt like I was struggling with them - as if I needed a heavier hand to grab them. I tried some of the Elixir Nanowebs and I found them to be much more comfortable. Now the last set of FTs is on my Gibson and I'm back to struggling. My pull-offs are hanging up, too. I will give them some more time (since I'm not paranoid anymore http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif ) but I just don't think they're the string for me. I liked the LaBella MF-20s I had on before the string change and I'm anxious to try the JM-11s.

Trying out different strings is an expensive venture but I did the same thing with my guitar. I've been using the same brand and gauge of strings on the guitar for the last 20 years but it took me two years of experimenting!! (keeps me off the streets http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif)

Thanks again!
Milan

[GBG]

I have a 1916 A1 with J74's on it. I tried some lighter gauge strings and it sounded like ####. Both the A1 and my F style mandolin use J74's. The only other strings I've tried that I liked were the EXP74's, especially in hot weather.