Looking for my 1st mandolin

[billy_ottawa]

I'm in Canada and so there's not much to choose from and, as a lifelong 6-stringer, I don't know much about mandos. Here are the options available to me - $300 is about my max budget. From the specs I have, all have solid tops and the only ones without wood backs and sides are the Epiphones. Any advice is appreciated – thanks.

- Epiphone MM20 ($229)
- Epiphone or MM30E ($299)
- Kentucky KM-140S ($215)
- Fender FM52E ($289)
- Alvarez 100A ($310 w/HSC) - mail order only
- Austin AU625 ($160) - mail order only
- Dean Bluegrass F Mandolin ($319) - mail order only

[billy_ottawa]

After a bit more research, I've narrowed it down to the Alvarez 100A and the Kentucky KM-340S, which seem to be a step up in quality from the others. Can anyone vouch for any of these two models? Note that I will not be able to play either one before purchasing, but having played an entry level and a quality Kentucky, I know what to exzpect from that maker.

[signel]

I was in a similar situation as you before christmas. I tried every mando you've listed (except the austin) and based on play alone, the epiphone seemed to sound best. However, this is more than likely due to the setup quality. I happened to find the same model at another store that wouldn't even play.

Also, avoid music123 and folk of the wood. I bet you've found them as mail order sources. This message board doesn't have a FAQ or sticky threads to help new people before they make mistakes.

I've not used the sponsors of the board yet but everyone seems to love them and their prices are not bad at all from what I've seen.

[Loren Bailey]

Billy,

What kind of music are you looking to play? Do you need an arched top with F holes like you are looking at? In retrospect I wish I had gone for tone and playability over asthetics with my "starter" mando. Especially playability. I realize now how tough it was to play on that first mando with crummy action, poor neck, crummy intonation.

My point is for the price range you are creeping into you can get a really good Mid-Mo M-0. It has flat top and back, oval holed and all solid woods. Plus excellent customer service. The Mid-Mo guys go out of their way to make things right, even when you're not the original owner of one of their instruments. Plus, when you're ready to move on to another mando the resale is pretty good. I have never seen a Mid-Mo hang around long on the classifieds.

Of those mandos you mentioned I think they are hit and miss as far as quality goes (I did have a fairly good Korean Kentucky 250S) You'd be wise to spend the money and have a good quality set up done on any of them.

Just the $.02 from someone who would have probably owned 4 less mandos and saved money in the long run.

Loren

[Bob DeVellis]

Loren speeks wisely. The Mid-Missouri instruments are consistently well made, play well, have good tone, and are backed by an outstanding company. I bought a Kentucky 150S recently as a "leave at Mom's house" instrument on the recommendation of a trusted dealer who suggested I try it out. It was surprisingly good but not typical of most other Kentuckys of this type and very well set up. The dealer said that it took a technician few hours to get each Kentucky playing that well. We both cringed at the thought of someone buying one mail order without a very good setup. If you can go and try an Alvarez or a Kentucky, it may be set up properly and may be an acceptable choice but be prepared to learn a lot about setup because things will change as the instrument is exposed to climate changes and other factors and will need a bit of tinkering. A Mid-Mo is inherently better made, in my opinion, and will just need less tinkering over time. So why did I buy the Kentucky and not a Mid-Mo? I originally went looking for a Mid-Mo and they had sold their last one. This particular Kentucky was unusually good and I intended it to be left in New England for me to use when visiting back there, while I live in North Carolina. So, at half the price of a Mid-Mo, it seemed like a reasonable way to go for that very limited purpose. I already have a Mid-Mo but, unlike the Kentucky, I consider it too nice an instrument to leave somewhere where I can only play it once or twice a year, even though it isn't my main instrument.

I should add that I play mostly Irish music and the Mid-Mo is especially nice for that stuff. If I were chopping bluegrass chords, I might feel differently, but I kind of doubt it.

[epicentre]

Hey Billy:

We live in the same area, and the pickings are slim when your shopping on a budget.

I bought an Epiphone MM2CAS, has wood top and looks like wood back as well. As a beginner mando, it suits really well, easy to set up, truss rod, nice low action, f holes, and sounds good. No Loar for shore, but good for a beginner like myself.

I think the secret on the cheapies is to play a few, find one thats nice (won't have to look too hard), and buy it. The tone on mine seems to have improved over 2 years.....?!

It was a toss up between the epi and a Fender. Epi dealer is local, so............good if something goes wrong.

Good luck:

Epi. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[earthsave]

At this price you are pretty limited, but should be able to get a playable starter to learn on. To get more for your value stay with an A style. When mail ordering these budget mandos, make sure they are setup prior to shipment to you. Meaning find a dealer that includes this in the price, and knows how to setup a mandolin. Take a look at http://www.elderly.com, http://www.fqms.com, http://www.janetdavismusic.com.

[recklessmando]

IMHO Loren and Bob are pointing you in the right direction. Mid-Mo's are heads and tails above the other brands you mentioned. It's probably worth finding out if they have a Canadian dealer or looking around for a used one. Good luck.

[epicentre]

Hi Reckless;

Was in no way knocking the Mid Mo. Have heard good things about them, and for a flat type mando they're probably pretty good. I've played a Trinity College flat mando and was not overly impressed, and they cost somewhat more than a MidMo.

According to their web page Mid Mo's start above $500.00USD. Billy was talking about a price in the $300.00 CANADIAN, which is a tad less.

We Canuks, although backward types by and large, are probably aware items can be ordered both by phone, internet, and mail. The most mando for the money (300 CDN)was what was being discussed.

Keep on a pickin



http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[AW Meyer]

Here are some mail order mandolin dealers in Canada:
Mike at The Acoustic Guitar in Calgary has a nice mail order business and sells Mid-Missouri, along with other brands.
acoustic guitar (http://www.acousticguitar.net)
The Twelfth Fret in Toronto has a good selection of mandolins in all price ranges: twelfth fret (http://www.12fret.com)
LA Music in Mississauga has some mandolins: la music (http://www.lamusic.ca)

[jasona]

What about the Folk Music Center in the Gleeb? Never been in it myself.

[Loren Bailey]

You can usually buy a M-0 direct from Mid-Mo for $350. I've seen used between $300-$350.

Loren

[billy_ottawa]

Wow, thanks for all the input, especially those pointing me to Canadian stores/sources. I was at the Ottawa Folklore Centre in Ottawa (Glebe) and IMO the prices are too high in comparison the US prices - the best example is the Kentucky KM-340S, which they sell for $500 Canadian and that I can order from Musician's Friend for $200US (that would leave enough to pay for a proper set-up).

Whatever mandolin I purchase will become my travel guitar and it will primarily be used as a rhythm accompaniment to my vocals (I now use a Taylor flat top to do anything from classic rock to Irish/Maritime traditional stuff, but would like to use the mandolin on occasion to change things up) and secondly in acoustic jams with friends where acoustic guitars are plentiful. So lots of chording and I’ll have to learn to use it as a lead instrument as well (I am a lead guitar player in a rock band, but I won’t use the mando in that application).

I'm going to follow the leads above...thanks again.

[Loren Bailey]

Based on what you've said I would be inclined to go towards an oval hole. Again, just my $.02 worth (that would be $.0233128 CAD)

Loren

[Eric F.]

Hey, I would avoid the Kentucky 340S. It's not all solid wood. You can get a 250S for less, and it IS all solid wood.

[billy_ottawa]

I checked out the Kentucky KM-250S online. Is it just me or a lot of the lower end madolins I have been looking at say things like "mahagony back and sides" and simply omit to say "laminate"? So far, the 250S is the only model that explicitly says SOLID top, sides and back (although Epiphone is clear that theirs are not). That being said, at $250US on Musician's Friend, the 250S seems to be in my ball park - plus it is advertized as being set up at the factory (does this mean the 250S is NOT made in China?). If solid wood all around in this price range doesn't make any difference, please let me know, but my insctincts are telling me otherwise.

P.S. I haven't been successful with the Canadian stores suggested above (out of my range), same with Mid-Mo or finding a mando with an oval hole.

[Eric F.]

Dude, buy it from Elderly Instruments not MF. It's $250, it will be set up and you will not get a dog. I got mine from them several years ago. If you have the extra bucks, have them put on a Cumberland Acoustics ebony bridge. They cost $40 and will improve your sound. Call them and tell the salesman you want something that sounds decent - not tinny. Make him play them all if they have several in stock and have him pick the one that sounds best to him. And yes, if the ad copy says "select maple" or "maple" but not "solid maple," it's laminated.

Edit: The 250S is made in China. The "set up at the factory" line just means MF doesn't touch it before shipping it to you.

[pathfinder]

A Mid-Mo would be a good fit for your music. #But a new one exceeds your $300 budget Cdn ($250 US). And there are virtually no used Mid-Mos here in Ontario. #If I were you, I'd save for a while longer and order one from the 'Acoustic Guitar' in Calgary (a very reputable mail-order business that, because it's in Alberta, won't charge 8% Provincial Sales Tax when Mike ships to you). #Just the 7% GST. #Meanwhile here's two other Southern Ontario stores you should check out, where you can play a good cross-section of mandos. #

www.andersonstrings.com (just south of you in Iroquois Ontario on Hwy 2. #Ask for Mike Anderson).
www.folkwaymusic.com (in Guelph. #Ask for Mart Stutman).

Take your time. #Play as many as possible. #And watch the Cafe Classifieds for used Mid-Mos.

[billy_ottawa]

Thank you pathfinder. I contacted Mike at the Acouustic Guitar and he responded quickly. Bottom line: I can get a Mid Missouri M-0 (w/HSC) delivered to my door for $560 Canadian, taxes and shipping included (around $500US). I haven't played and cannot try a Mid-Mo in my town, but from everything I've read and the suggesitons posted here, it sounds like this would be an excellent choice. Any final advice before I take the plunge and blow my budget (which was $400)?!

[pathfinder]

Ha! #So you're thinking about pulling the trigger! #I don't think you'll be disappointed (I've owned two Mid-Mos). #As for final advice, well, lets recap and see what risks you're looking at:

- it's solid-wood construction like you wanted, so there'll be no surprises there;
- Mike's a reputable dealer; I'll vouch for the fact that he packs his stuff well for shipping, and he might be persuaded to give you a 48 hour trial period (if you really want to play it safe);
- you're buying a great American-made product; #Mid-Mo's 'customer service' anecdotes are well-documented on this discussion board;
- it would be a good match for your Taylor guitar (nice clean sound, great playability and minimal 'bling-bling');
- it would be excellent for classic rock and Celtic/Maritime stuff;
- it will hold its resale value well, if you decide to upgrade.

I think that covers all the bases. #I don't have any interest in any of this. #But like previous posters, I think this would be a good economy-minded first mando to "jump into the pool" with.

Keep us posted on how it all turns out, Billy!

[pathfinder]

Uh, what I meant to say was, that I don't have any "financial interest" in Mid-Missouri or 'The Acoustic Guitar' in Calgary. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[Eric F.]

Billy, great choice. You can't go wrong with a Mid-Mo.

[stevem]

I've owned 2 Midmo's (M-4's) and both were phenomenal. My brother has an M-0 and its a great instrument as well. The price is fair for a new one--not cheap, but not a rip-off either. Midmo customer support is among the best in the business too. They won't do you wrong. (No financial interest.)

[billy_ottawa]

Ha! So you're thinking about pulling the trigger!
I just got sealed the deal with Mike - very nice guy, he really took the time to answer all my questions and had no problem with a trial period. I should get my new M-0 by the end of next week and I will certainly post an update on this discussion forum.

[AW Meyer]

I'll just chime in to say that I'm glad you took my suggestion to check out Mike's site in Calgary. I bought a Weber mandolin from him and am very happy with his business dealings and the attention he pays to customer service. The mandolin had a set up done and new strings put on before he shipped it. It was well packaged and arrived in a wonderfully playable condition. His prices are very fair, as well.

[otterly2k]

Congrats, Billy...! Keep us posted!

[Michael H Geimer]

I've been reading this thread just now like it was a Soap Opera ... Did Billy get the Mid-mo?

Yea! Good choice, Billy!

Even though I own a really nice Weber, I have completely fallen for my Mid-mo M-0. It is such a sweet instrument, and can hold its own anywhere I take it.

I saw it used on Craigslist for $275. I didn't need another axe, but I wasn't about to pass up the opportunity. I'm so glad I pulled the trigger that morning.

(grabs the M-0 and picks a bit of Bonaparte's Retreat to the minor amusement to his cube-mates)

- Benig

[zzoundss]

Great choice. I take it you went with the Mid Mo. I am a begginner myself and my Dad got a great deal on an Mid Mo. I got an M-11 for the same price as an M-0. It sounds so great is really easy to play. You'll love it.

[pathfinder]

Congratulations, Billy. #As you can see, the accolades are still pouring in (very helpful folks here at the Mandolin Cafe)! #Just one last risk that you might want to consider. #

It's January in Canada. #Regardless how Mike ships from Calgary, you should expect that your Mid-Missouri will be exposed to cold warehouses and delivery trucks enroute to Ottawa in the next week or so.

When you open the box and remove the bubblewrap (or styrofoam popcorn), feel the exterior of the hardshell case for undue coldness before opening it. #If the case is cold, there's a risk that your Mid-Mo inside is cold too, and that the spruce top's sudden exposure to a warm room might cause it to crack.

IMHO, it's better to err on the side of caution and let the case sit unopened for 5-6 hours to let everything unthaw, before you finally gaze upon your new prize inside and tune 'er up.

This is generally the most painful part for us who succumb to 'MAS' (mandolin acquisition syndrome) from time to time in the winter months. #Those 5-6 hours go by real slow....#

Just a thought, FWIW. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/coffee.gif

[Dioptase]

I've been on the cafe for a number of years, and I can't remember a single complaint from a midmo owner. They're just great instruments. I have a Gibson A9 that is several years old, a Stradolin from the early 40s, and a Midmo that is about 6 years old. Sure, the Gibson is the "best" of the lot, but I find myself playing the Midmo most often. Good choice.

[sixstrng]

Congrats on an excellent choice. I played guitar for 20 yrs. before picking up the mando, then bought a cheap laminated piece of junk. I had a mid-mo M-1 within 3 weeks of that and my frustration turned into inspiration.

I do now have a high-end Lebeda Fern, a reso-mando and a Weber mandocello, but my mid-mo still gets a lot of playing time in the mix.

Play-on!
D'

[billy_ottawa]

I've been reading this thread just now like it was a Soap Opera ... Did Billy get the Mid-mo?

Yea! Good choice, Billy!
Did you say soap opera? Well, here's the next chapter:

Billy breaks right thumb playing hockey on Friday night and cannot play the beautiful M-0 mando he receives on Monday. Will he ever be able to play again? Join us next time on...OK, enough of that.

True story folks, but from my half-assed assessment of the M-0 (i.e., picking with my uninjured fingers or with a pick between the index and middle finger), investing the extra money was worth it: it sounds full, it rings and sustains forever! Beautifully set up by Mike, no buzzing and top notch workmanship. You can't even compare it to the others (e.g., Kentucky, Epiphone) I tried. I can't wait to heal.

Thanks to everyone who guided me in the right direction, perhaps you only forgot one thing: broken fingers and mandolins don't mix.

[GTG]

!! Oh, what a classic Canadian twist to the soap! True tragicomedy. Sorry to hear about it, Billy, and best of luck healing up. Don't worry, your pretty mando will still be there in a month or two.

-Dan
(originally from Ottawa, now in Seattle, and about to move to Calgary)

[luckylarue]

Did you at least score a goal or block a shot? I've been there Billy - take it from another hockey playing Mid-Mo owner. Here's to a quick recovery and congrats w/ the new mando.