Pulling Strings Out of Tune

[DanS]

long time lurker, first time poster...
i've been a guitar player for ten years or so, been playing the mandolin since last january. I have a MM bean blossom mahogany top with an allen solid tailpiece and a fishman piezo bridge pickup, strung with j74 strings.
i play with a couple bands. the other day, i was getting into a solo a bit more than usual and i managed to pull my e strings way out of tune.
is this a case for a new set of tuners? or perhaps do i need to try different gauge strings.
I can't quiet tell if the strings slipped at the tuning posts or if the knot around the loop end at the tailpiece is slipping... i know that my mandobird tends to pull strings until the knot unwinds and the ball end comes flying off. from years of changing strings on a guitar, i know what im doing as far as winding new strings around the post correctly so im fairly confident i just didn't mis-wrap the srings on the posts. im guessing i just need to get a good set of tuners to replace the stock ones but i wanted to run it by some other mandoheads first.

[John Flynn]

Mandos are very sensitive to tuning, and therefore can be more easily thrown off than a guitar, for several reasons:
> High string tension: a change in any string can throw every other string off
> High register: Like piccollos other high pitched instruments, a small change in pitch is more apparent
> Paired strings: When you have pairs in unison, any small change in one string is really apparent

I can't tell why yours went out of tune, but here are some factors that cause mine to go out of tune:
> Really new, or really old, strings
> Bending strings. It is a cool effect, but save it for the end of a tune, because on an acoustic mando your tuning may be shot afterwards!
> Nut slots too tight
> Tuning down to a note rather than up. As you probably know, if a string is sharp, it is better to tune it flat and then tune it up to pitch than to tune it down.
> Putting pressure on the "tail strings," the length of strings between the bridge and tailpiece

[mandroid]

Think of it as in another related string instrument. just as a string bass the fingering spot is a wider range of location, than a violin.
watch how much the players left hand moves when a double bass violist like Edgar Meyer adds vibrato, as compared with violin players.
A locking nut or tuners, isnt going to be a realistic substitution in a traditional styled mandolin. but a custom made electric any of those variations may be possible.
those steinberg 40:1 tuners that pull the string down, rather than around a capstan as most tuners, would be pretty solid, with that ratio .
as, perhaps, would knob on the back locking tuners.

[DanS]

so last night, i put a brand new set of j74s on...
im tuning up the e strings and i watched the knot holding the loop end slip closer and closer to the post until it came untied and the string popped off at the tailpiece...
why is this happening?
im not tuning beyond the high e pitch...
in fact, i can't get the e string up to the correct pitch without the loop end coming untied...
any ideas?

[mandroid]

thats why the original stamped Gibson tail pieces have 12 hooks for 8 strings; the unwound plain strings go with loop over one hook and bend around the other.
in the wayback era the loops did that Im told

modern productivity is a count of how many are made, not how well each is made.

[Kevin K]

A little solder on the windings and straight wire will help or should at least.

[mandolooter]

I have a heavy grip and bend strings alot without much tuning problems. Sometimes it happens...sometimes it doesn't. Its part of myway of playing so i don't think i'll every stop doing it. As with hammer-ons, pull-offs, etc its all part of how stringed music is made. YMMV http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Paul Hostetter]

DanS: no commercial string should ever pull out like that. Never. Many people routinely skip the extra hooks in the Gibson tailpiece and never have this problem. Many mandolin tailpieces don't even have the extra hooks and they still don't have this problem. You have defective strings, which for D'Addario is highly unusual. The loops aren't tied right, and a drop of solder is no cure at all. A dab of chewing gum would be as effective.

I use the extra hooks on Gibson tailpieces because they keep the loop engaged on the first one while I'm threading and tightening up the other end. From my perspective that's what they're for, and not to keep loops from pulling out.

Friction in the slots at the nut and bridge are real issues, especially for folks who play hard. A lot of the going out of tune can be mitigated with a good setup.

[Clamdigger]

I have a Randy Wood tailpiece and it is sometimes difficult to keep the string loop under the hook. I fixed that problem by hooking the string under the loop and temporarily putting a piece of masking tape over it and the loop does not come off. After tuning the string up, I move the tape to the next string that I am doing. Clamdigger