To the Woodshed

[R. Kane]

I had a first lesson with a new teacher last night, an accomplished multi-instrument session player and producer who also fronts a couple of bands. He's teaching me his improvising system: its simple and demonstrably workable in his hands. (It's probably like many other teachers' approaches, but since he makes part of his living doing this I don't feel I should talk about it much. And no, its not about scales.)

It's going to take me a lot of time (could be years) doing exercises, and he warns that there will be some confused periods ahead (including times when I will not want or be able to play with others!), but when the light goes on sometime down the road, I will play what I hear/sing and rarely hit a wrong note. Way beyond my previous aspirations, but it's inspiring.

Anyone else spent an inordinate amount of time in the woodshed? Did the light go on? And was the result worth the time and effort?

[tree]

I've been in the woodshed for the past 3 years. #It was REAL dark at first, now the light flickers on occasionally. Enough to make me want to stay out there and keep working.

[kudzugypsy]

sounds like he is developing your ear....which IS the best method - period.
he is telling the truth - it will be hard and frustrating, but once you *own* it - your playing will show. if you can hear it, you can play it - if you cant hear it, you cant play it - people dont realize how powerful that statement is - thats why most people cant learn squat from tabs.
i spent a whole year on college level ear training course and i would rather have a root canal than sit thru that again, but its one of those things you just gotta do.

[250sc]

If your going to progress you will never leave the woodshed.

Hang in there and follow the advise of your instructor. You should see progress within a couple of months.

BTW, I have gone to workshops and left them playing worse than when I started but I was trying to digest new concepts and ideas. It's good to step out of your comfort zone and necessary if you want to continue to progressing.

Don't get frustrated. Everyone has a learning curve to deal with.

[David Horovitz]

What's the approach your new teacher is having you take? (Oops, just re-read your post where you'd rather not go into details about your teacher's methods. That's cool. . . )

I feel like I've been woodshedding for the past +5 years. Problem is I have tried so many different things (exercises, tunes, licks, books, CDs, DVDs, etc.) but don't feel like I've ever mastered anything. It's probably because I'll get bored with whatever I'm working on after a couple of weeks and move on to something else. So, I realize, I'm my own worst enemy. In spite of my scatter-brained practice habits, I do feel I've made a lot of progress. Recently I've started using Band-In-A-Box on my laptop and have found this very helpful. It's so easy to input a chord progression, pick a tempo and back-up rhythm section, then just play through the changes for 10 or 15 minutes. I do this to learn a rehearsed break but also then find myself playing variations and actually improvising - imagine that! In the absence of regular jam partners, the virtual jam partner may prove to be the best tool of all.

[John Flynn]

Interesting. I also have a new instructor who is teaching me his personal improvizing system that also has nothing to do with scales. But I have a different take on it. I think it is fascinting and fun, nothing like a "woodshed." I play for enjoyment. See my the thread I started "Why I play."
http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin....t=30485 (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=12;t=30485)

I am getting to that age the people I love are passing away and I spend much more time than I like at work, where I can't play. Life to too darn short to spend even a minute in any "woodshed." I play what I enjoy playing, period. I play a lot every day and I am always pushing myself, but I never, ever pick the thing up unless I am I thoroughly enjoying every minute. Each to one's own.

[gnelson651]

To me "going to the woodshed" is synonymous with being "called on the carpet." It is where you get spanked for your transgressions.

Sounds to me more like "sink or swim" methodology.

I don't have the luxury of a teacher so I use whatever books or DVDs I can find that are useful. But I also feel like I'm in the dark with just a few splinters of light coming through when it comes to improvisation. I agree that it is a matter of learning by ear but also by experimentaion.

[R. Kane]

Woodshedding, to me, is when one goes to a place where nobody can (or needs to) hear you while you work on your craft, hopefully emerging with a level of skill that makes the effort worthwhile.

And I am very much looking forward to both the time in the shed and the emergence!

[Brad Weiss]

I will play what I hear/sing and rarely hit a wrong note. Way beyond my previous aspirations, but it's inspiring.
Hey, that is EXACTLY the ability I'm looking to develop!! Ok, I know you don't want to undermine your teacher's earning power, but can you give any hint of some of the techinques he's suggesting to achieve this goal? I think a#good teacher is so much more than exercises that I doubt you'd be compromising his position by giving us some ideas- I'd even go so far as to say that promoting an interest in mastering any process promotes the teaching profession (spoken as a teacher, mind you!). #In any case, this is the skill I'd like to have and any hints as to how to achieve it would be greatly appreciated!

Pretty much all I do is woodshed! Who wants to listen to me?? Not that I don't relish jamming with friends, and wouldn't love a venue to perform some, but about 90% of my playing is in my office with a music stand...

[Vincent]

I'm not a fan of woodshedding so far out back that you avoid playing with other people. For me, playing music is a way to connect with others. Of course, time spent alone practicing is invaluable, but a regimen that predicts there will be times you "will not want or be able to play with others" would not work for me. To twist your analogy, the "light" has never gone on for me- it's just been years of moving toward it, always trying to enjoy whatever warmth can be found. Slow going sometimes, for sure. Ultimately, it's your time and your dime. Good luck!

[steve in tampa]

The "practice this over and over by yourself till you get it right" style of instruction is like getting a piece of broccoli for breakfast and nothing else.

Every aspect of the end goal needs to be addressed from different perspectives.

Stage time has taught me more, and maybe more importantly, motivated me more to visit the woodshed and emerge with a different approach to things I already thought I knew.

Learn a little, perform a little, etc............

Anybody learn to swim by getting thrown in the deep end?

One thing to remember about instructors, chiropractors, etc, it they get paid when you are there. You can get strung along, without the concerted effort on their part. "Do these exercises until you master them, then we'll move on" smells of that. A good instructor will take the time to read the student to find the "soft spots", correct, and analyze where they can be most effective at teaching.

Just like in playing with a group, listening is a big part of teaching. How many ###### bitter professors did anybody have that just discerned the information with a smile or not, just to make the bell?

Cannot stress enough the importance of taking what you learn out and demonstrating. Learn a little, perform a little, etc............

[gnelson651]

Arcane-thanks for clearing up the definition of woodshedding. I guess there are several definitions for this word and in its context used in music, seems to be a good metaphor.

Steve, I agree with you that you have to play with others to appreciate what works or doesn't work. I go to a biweekly jam session to learn in a group setting. This year I've been working on rhythm and backup. How can you learn this at home (woodshed)? Playing aong with CD's will only get you so far. The dynamics of playing with a group is the only way you will know if it works. The same can be said of improvising.

The other day, at our last jam session, the group was playing a song I hadn't learned. But since I've started to now work with a book on improvisation, I found that my playing around with the pentatonic scales as the group played I was able to play the most of the song on the fly. It was a great feeling to know that my hard work is starting to pay off.

But I doubt I would have discovered this without playing with a group.

[250sc]

Ive never associated 'woodshedding' with punishment. Just a quiet place to get away and work on new ideas and techniques. Most of my time is spent in this persuit.

[steve in tampa]

What goes on behind the woodshed is another topic entirely..........

[R. Kane]

I started playing mandolin in order to play with others, I do so at least every week and I intend to continue. I don't intend to stop learning new tunes either. The
bit about possibly being so confused that I won't want to is a little scary.

I don't think the guy is selling snake oil...or telling me to "go to the crossroads at midnight and sell your soul to the devil"...like RJ. Just an approach that might not have waypoints where I can test it and myself along the way.

I was just posting about the start of a long process that looks like it will have some frustration and boredom, some confusion, and just might have some good outcomes. And I was wondering if anyone else had taken a similar plunge, figuring that many of you had.

Essentially he's developed a way for me to learn every note on the fretboard. Its just an hour a day for the forseeable future. I can't see any harm.

Anyway, I'll report back in a few months or so. And I'll ask him how he feels about my discussing his approach.

Merry Christmas to all.

RK

[James P]

Right!!!
Going behind "the woodshed" = bad
Going to "the woodshed" = good. #
That's where you go to get your chops. #

But wrt the perform/practise formula: Who hasn't known a cover band member that has his "act" totally wired but otherwise pretty much sucked as a musician? #Given a choice between being a solid player or being a performer, I'd take the 'ol woodshed any day. Sure being both would be best, but there are plenty of great players who never play out.

[mlbex]

>Ive never associated 'woodshedding' with punishment.

In the context of music, 'woodshedding' means long sessions of rehearsal, or just plain playing. In other contexts, being 'taken to the woodshed' is considered a punishment. For example, when Ronald Reagan's financial whiz kid messed up, the media reported that Ronnie "took him to the woodshed". Presumably they weren't there to play music.

[Ken Sager]

There aren't many performers who suck but manage to play out for any length of time. Besides, there is no reason to choose between the two...

Back to the topic, there are good ways to practice and bad ways to practice. Is there a single best way to practice? No. Is there a single best way that will work for you? No, probably not. You need to find your course and use your instructor to help you get there. Give yourself measureable milestones to guage your progress. Without them you don't know how much you're improving.

It's your path, not your instructor's.

Love to all,
Ken

[Ken Sager]

Oh, wait. I just remembered Ricky...

[mandopete]

(seen on the wall in a practice room at Berklee College of Music - 1975)

"Get your axe and go to the woodshed to work on your chops - what are we musicians or woodsmen?"
# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # - Anon

[Brad Weiss]

I always though woodshedding was just focused, intense, longterm practicing - nothing about avoiding playing with others, or refusing to learn new tunes, or deviate from a specific method. #That sounds like no fun at all! I agree, playing with others is the best way to enhance your musicality- but focused individual practice can improve your technique in ways that playing with others doesn't always permit.