Taking a year off... [Archive] - Mandolin Cafe Forum

Dfyngravity

Dec-21-2005, 7:52pm

I am in kind of the same boat too. I am in college, play the mandolin more than I go to class and study...but I am still making good grades so my parents don't care too much. My mom keeps asking me when I am going to build my first mandolin, even though I don't even know how. I have always talked about learning and would love too. I am also wanting to work under someone for a year or so and learn the trade. My plans for after I graduate is to go to VT for grad school and do architecture, since that is my other passion. I have taken four years of architecture in high school and I have learned CAD so I am a little bit ahead of the game in that department. However, that being said, if I do not go to grad school than I will probably join my Dad in building houses which is very good money, but I would like to build mandolins as well. But as of right now, I am just crusing through college and trying to find my way and for some reason I am a math major. But some say math and music go hand in hand. Anyways, you are definitely not alone. I wish I had taken a year off before I went to college. I decided to go and play golf for R-MC(private college in Ashland, Va) and wasted two years.

Advise: Take the time off and do a lot of thinking and building. If you find out that mandolin making is your passion I would still suggest going to college. Reason?, well it is an experience you won't regret, you will make life time friends, get all kinds of connections through those friends and you will have a back up plan if building mandolins doesn't work out.

stevem

Dec-21-2005, 8:23pm

If you might want to be a luthier, go for it now. The older you get, the harder it is to justify, other than as a hobby. It'll likely feel like too much of a financial risk otherwise.

Ksig, I'm in law school now. Feel free to PM if you have any questions about the process. But keep in mind, you'll be getting it from a guy who has a final tomorrow and is spending his last hours reading mandolin posts instead of studying... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

f5loar

Dec-21-2005, 8:27pm

Forest Gump ran for a year. I just heard tonight on the news about a guy that is going around to all the Starbucks and drinking a cup of coffee at each one. His goal is to hit them all but with Starbucks opening 3 or 4 new ones each day he now has doubts of reaching that goal. And he says he really don't care for their coffee either just a goal he set out to do. Finding a luthier to study under is not a bad idea. Randy Wood use to take some in. If you like sanding and not alergic to the wood dust go for it.
If I had a year off I'd go to work for a cruise company and travel the world by sea. You might could even land an entertaintment job on one.

bjc

Dec-21-2005, 8:31pm

oh to be young with the wisdom I have now...

gnelson651

Dec-21-2005, 8:40pm

Jacob:

In answer your question about taking off from schooling for awhile. Yes, I did it. I went to college (UNLV) right after high school for one semster. Like you, I was feed up with school. I took a full time job working in #my field of choice-photography. I was able to get a good job at the local school district as a darkroom assistant for two years.

I wanted to get a good education in photography but my parents couldn't swing college. So I joined the Navy (this was during the Vietnam era and my friends thought I was nuts going in the military). I got a solid photographic background during my four years in the Navy. When I got out I got a good job as a photographic technician and went back to UNLV part-time. I was able to work the swing shift and go to school during the day. What was great about my job was that it paid for tutition and books along with my Veteran benefits. I was able to save enough money to go to graduate school. I graduated from UNLV in 5 1/2 years with a Bachelor of Science in Business Administration. My graduate degree is in International Management.

I waited to return to school after a six year hiatus from high school. But I was ready to go to college. I was more mature and took my education seriously. Real world experience will really help you realize just how important a good education is in terms of getting a good job and making a decent living. It will also give you a better understanding of what is happening in the world around you and understand yourself. #College was a great intellectual experience.

The only draw back from taking off from school is that you may not return. Life can get in the way. During that time you could end up with a family or car to support.

Good luck in whatever path you follow.

rmcintos

Dec-21-2005, 8:47pm

Ok, so I took a year off between my last job and graduate school. In no particular order I:

Took several road trips around the country; one big trip out West and several trips down South (Texas, Nashville - if you go, go to Gruhn's)

Worked as a day camp counselor; For a month I ran around with 15-20 kids ages 8-11, something I'd never done before.

Played music; I'd never played a stringed instrument up until that point, so I concentrated on the mandolin playing 2-3 hours a day.

Worked some odd jobs here and there. Computer stuff, working in a bookstore.

In hindsight, taking a year off was a good thing for me,so I think (for what it's worth!) your headed in the right direction. I think the important thing is to try new things whether they be something you want to do or even something you think you wouldn't want to do. Because you never know....

Rob

mandopete

Dec-21-2005, 9:31pm

Kind of off topic, but what does dipsoloucious mean? #
I think you mean discolicious (http://www.pseudodictionary.com/word.php?id=7102)

DryBones

Dec-21-2005, 10:03pm

just remember the longer you put off college the more UNlikely it will be that you ever go.not always a bad thing though. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

mr51

Dec-21-2005, 11:20pm

oh to be young with the wisdom I have now...
Ain't that the truth!!!

OK, now the ADULT comes out in me, so please listen and don't be offended.

I fully understand the feelings you may have toward school. I to was in your shoes several years ago. I hated school, I didn't then nor do I now feel that they were teaching me subjects that would help me be successful in life. If I wanted to be a full time triva game show contestant maybe some of that stuff would have come in handy, but most of it isn't worth a hoot in the real world. I'd much rather see school systems focus more on tech skills for high school students. If you make it interesting, they (students) will come. Perhaps the dropout rate would decrease.

College can wait. And, if you dislike school as much as you say, college may not be for you.

If YOU can AFFORD to take the year or a few months off, thats great; go for it. But PLEASE don't expect mom and dad to foot the bill while you travel the country or what ever your plans maybe. Make an effort to gain employment in the musicial instrument industry if thats what interest you.

Sorry to sound so harsh, but my oldest son did that after high school. It was OK for a while, but then I woke up. He would party till midnite, sleep till lunch while his mother and I worked 7 days a week to help buy him gasoline, pay car insurance, provide clothes for him. Now, I ask you, whats wrong with that picture?

Have fun after you graduate, it is the best time of your life. But please be able to support yourself along the way.

Professor PT

Dec-21-2005, 11:58pm

Between college and grad school, I took time out to just relax and figure out what I wanted to do. I spent the better part of a year in New Orleans just getting drunk and playing in a band--things I had a passion for then( and still do now, but mostly the music part ). It was in some ways the defining year of my life. I decided what I could live with and live without. Doing temp work during the day was tedious enough to push me in the direction of grad school. And now I find myself a little lost again; I've been teaching part time for eight years now and am ready to move on to something else if a full time "gig" doesn't happen soon. I'd just get drunk and play in a band again, but my wife would probably get the divorce papers in order. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

boatman

Dec-22-2005, 1:51am

I too didn't want to go to college after high school (1966) so joined the Marines and ended up spending a good deal of my three year enlistment in exotic foreign lands. Saw a lot of places, met lots of folks and was exposed to more influences than I would have in any other scenario that I can imagine. The military option is not for everyone, but it can be a real good foundation, mentally and financially, for what comes next (ie, the rest of your life). Good luck, whatever you decide on.

J. Mark Lane

Dec-22-2005, 6:57am

I'm planning to go to law school in a year or so, but just decided I wasn't ready to go right into it, plus I see what J. Mark Lane has to put up with around here... # http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
I just noticed this. I know you were joking, but in case there's any real concern, let me say this --

Lawyers do get ribbed a lot. Lawyer jokes go waaay back (as a variety of prostitution, it is, in a way, part of the oldest profession <g>). But it's almost always done with a smile. Kind of like banjo players. <g> I sort of enjoy it. Adds a little levity to things. Even judges sometimes will do it, and it's always a hoot.

Now and then, you run into someone who really does hate lawyers, and usually that's because they had some kind of awful experience that involved a lawyer. I take such people as a challenge, and try to make them see that generalizations are unwise. It's always a great satisfaction for me when someone says, "Hey, I guess not all lawyers are bad, after all." Brings a smile to my face.

It's a great profession. Like anything else, it can be drudgery at times. But mostly, your job is to help people solve problems, and that can be very satisfying, either on a grand scale or at the "street level". So don't let the ribbing deter you.

Also...don't be in any hurry. Take time for yourself, and *use* it.

luckylarue

Dec-22-2005, 7:26am

I took a year off from college - and it turned into 5 years of ski bumming in Vail (along w/ lots of travel, G. Dead shows, etc.) I think I needed that time to figure out what I wanted to do w/ my career. I ended up going back to school a little older and (somewhat) wiser, studied language and became a teacher. Now, after 10+ years I'm ready to become a ski bum again...perhaps I'll wait until my 11 month-old can strap on some boards. Only regret: I wish I'd played and studied more music back then. Good luck.

Mando4Life

Dec-22-2005, 8:02am

I went straight to college after high school; I pondered joining the military for a few years but decided against it. #For me, going straight to college was the right thing. #But for other folks, it works that they take the time off to go and explore the world. #I was fortunate enough that my degree (Geology) and my first job out of college allowed me travel (US, Canada, and Europe). #I wouldn't trade it for the world. #BUT, I know many people who took the same path you are looking at and are very happy in life!

Think it through, ask people, and as J. Mark said 'Take time for yourself, and *USE* it', if that is what your heart tells you to do.

Best of luck!!

WBL

DryBones

Dec-22-2005, 8:42am

I always thought that the summer breaks were for the bummin' around stuff, why do kids need a whole year now? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Ray Neuman

Dec-22-2005, 9:14am

"I always thought that the summer breaks were for the bummin' around stuff, why do kids need a whole year now?"

Inflation. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

the professir that is cruising through life

Keith Erickson

Dec-22-2005, 9:40am

Jacob,

My advice would be to head to school to see if you like it. If you get tired of school, I would at least go part time. Getting an education and that piece of paper opens a multitude of doors. Bumming around can wait until you get you finish your bachelors degree. There is where you really find out where you want to go.

I had the best of both worlds. I was able to work full time during and right after college. I was promoted after I received my degree. Even thought it had nothing to do with what I had studied for, my degree opened a lot of doors.

The year after I graduated, I continued to work full time and enjoyed the promotion. I also had a yearning to see the world. Fortunately I had accrued enough vacation ( 7 weeks from all of the years of service ) to take off when I wanted to.

The year after college, I took off to Costa Rica for a month; drove down to Mississippi and Pennsylvania to visit family for a short stint and then took off to Barbados and did nothing but drink Banks beer.

Lóóking back I have no regrets.

Best of luck in whatever you choose!!!!

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

luckylarue

Dec-22-2005, 11:09am

Dry Bones, You can't ski in summer!

Kayakboy

Dec-22-2005, 11:20am

I got dipsoloucious from Family Guy, the Christmas episode, when he crashes in to the manger at the begining I think. I hope all you people realize what a great show that is.

banjo1

Dec-22-2005, 11:34am

It must be nice to have an option.
Where I grew up as a young man, if you made it out of highschool, you went right to work. Not too many options.
If I could turn back the clock 25 years or so, I would go right to collage , with my mandolin or what ever you play and get the education that you will have to have to make the bucks to support MAS.( not including a family)
I know more people that never went back and started collage than I know that went on to collage after a year or so off.
Just a thought
Merry Christmas

sgarrity

Dec-22-2005, 11:57am

Take the time off and enjoy it. I went straight from HS to college and right out of college to a 50-60 hour a week job. The job has financed my MAS, but if I had it to do all over again I would have kept my first Mid Missouri and travelled for a year before I entered the real world.

chovie d

Dec-22-2005, 12:04pm

I found high school (hated it) and college(loved it) to be two totally different experiences. Taking a year off tho is one of the best things you can do IMHO, because it gives you a glimpse into the horrors of the work-a-day world, and motivates you to seek out a career path that might yeild less resistance to your goal of a happy life than the lousy jobs you will be working out of high school. i learned more in my one year off school than all the years in school.

If you take a year off and spend it in mommy and daddys basement eating ho-hos and playing x-box...well that aint so great for your future development as an adult...fun as it may be.

Travel is great before you get tied down with spouse job and kids. But also, sample some of the hard knock stuff, work a few really bad jobs...hehe...you can always bail if it gets real bad, and boy what an education you'll get.

Tim

Dec-22-2005, 12:28pm

My son is considering dropping out of college and chasing his rock 'n roll dreams. #It really is his choice and saves me college money. #At 19/20 years old it don't mean anything to him but when he ceases to be a full time student he joins the medically un-insured. #Without knowing more information than I would want about you and your family, can't say anything definitive but make sure you know all of the legal, financial, medical, etc. implications of ceasing to be considered a "dependent".

And since I'm being the naysayer here, my experience with a break in formal education was not good. #I was in a technical field and taking a break between college and grad school (where I didn't work in a directly related field) made things difficult.

But, my advice would be to make sure you know all of the factors, consider lots of people's opinions and then make your own decision.

makoto

Dec-22-2005, 3:07pm

Great thread! It is good to hear all of the stories and examples. Going to college right out of high school is not for everyone, but each must make their own decision. I took time off, it turned into several years, and finally when I decided that I needed an education, (due to the influence of the woman in my life at the time), I was truly motivated to go and learn something. I was also working as a bartender and paying my own way, which is a great source of motivation.
One thought is that if you find yourself drawn to instrument building, you may eventually decide to go to art school, or learn to work in wood. You have so many options at this point in your life, good luck to you!

mandoJeremy

Dec-22-2005, 3:30pm

You know, I would say do what your heart tells you. I went straight to college after graduation from high school and only went for a year and a half. I was offered the chance to play on the road when I was 20 and I took it. I knew that college would always be there and the chance to play professionally sometimes only comes once in a lifetime so I took it. I did that for two years and decided I would go back to college later. Well, here I am 29 and I still haven't made it back to college and I honestly don't know if I will. I love what I do now and I just trust in God to take me where He wants me. So, I am kind of on both sides of the issue here. 1. Follow your heart and do what you love. 2. Go to college now because it gets harder to do the older you get.

DryBones

Dec-22-2005, 5:28pm

Dry Bones, #You can't ski in summer!
uhm...water ski? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Yellowmandolin

Dec-22-2005, 11:36pm

This is really exactly what I wanted!! Thanks so much for everybody's insight, it is all rolling around in my head. I've still got a little while, but when the time comes I'll be sure to let everyone know what I'm doing. Thanks.

PlayerOf8

Dec-23-2005, 9:35am

Stay away from the brown acid and remember, kissing helps build up your lips.

G

otterly2k

Dec-23-2005, 9:38am

From my experience...
there's nothing like school to make you want go to work...
and nothing like work to make you want to go back to school!

thistle3585

Dec-23-2005, 9:54am

First off, can you do it financially? True, you can take a year off but you have to pay the bills and working a minimum wage job may not be the best way to "enjoy" the break.
Life is what you make it whether your in school or not. Personally, I would much rather be in school than in the "real world." Those were some good times.
By the way, there is a violin building school in Bloomington, IN and a instrument repair school in southern Michigan. A friend of mine got a grant for the one in Michigan.

Yellowmandolin

Dec-24-2005, 11:22am

Ooo, good idea thistle. I'll have to look it up.

mandolooter

Dec-24-2005, 11:55am

Im still in the planning stages of my year off...Im 48 now, but a recent divorce has put the need to "conform" on the back burner. I never was good at it anyways, but let me say a few things i've learned along the way.

Traveling is a great education in and of it self and if ya leave the shore's of America, altho scarier, the "learning" factor goes up bigtime. I spent 18 months "hitchhiking" S.E. Asia and had the time of my life! #I met friends who til this day Im still in touch with.

My vacation from school is STILL happening some 25+ years later!

School is VERY important in todays workforce enviroment and I myself have suffered from my lack of education many times and supporting my family has hampered my ability to return to school full time tho I have managed to aquire some college education along the way.

Life is a game of give and take but your bad decisions will haunt ya as much as your good ones will help...be smart, be careful and enjoy your youth, but don't waste it cuz it goes fast and once gone it's unretrivable.

2 cents from a old uuuhh tart http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

Ken Sager

Dec-24-2005, 12:24pm

Take a year, take two. Find your place in the world and be happy. You'll end up in the same place 75 years from now whether you take a year off or not.

Big love to all,
Ken

banjo1

Dec-24-2005, 8:48pm

It's interesting how everyone that went to collage right out of highschool said to take the time off and folks like myself that never had a chance to go, went to work and provided for a family, said that you should go right away.

Different outlooks on life indeed but it is a decision you will have to make on your own.IF you have the funds to do either, then that makes the decision even harder.

The advice that was givin to on this thread was to say the least........
from our hearts.

Merry Christmas

harwilli55

Dec-25-2005, 11:01am

So there are some of us who take the Road Less Traveled. I went to college directly from high school for a year and half, joined the Navy for 3 years, returned to college( now a university) for a year and half, left and went to work for 15 years in a therapeutic wilderness program for adolescents, returned to the university and graduated with a degree at 40.

Each to his own said the little ole lady as she kissed the cow :cool:

A caveat though, it is important that you are going toward something and not running away from anything, for that which you run from is always with you wherever you are.

If you are looking for a way to finance a year, travel a little, and give of your time to those who may be less fortunate. You might consider joining the Americorps program. I ran the Habitat for Humanity Americorps program here for 3 years. The members were much like yourself. Some were just out of college, some were taking a year off from college, some were in between, and some had reached a turning point in their lives. The one thing they all had in common was a desire for service, to feel that what they did was important. All of them were exceptionally caring people. During their year of service, they matured more than almost any other experience could have given them. If you would like an introduction to a couple of the HFH Americorps program directors, email me and I would be glad to help.

Harlan

PS. even at my advanced age, I would give anything to spend a year working in a shop repairing or building instruments too.:p

cyeiser

Dec-27-2005, 8:33am

I recommend a semantic change. Don't take a year off...

Take a year ON!!!!

I got college done and worked a 9 to fiver for a couple of years before taking my year on. Loved it.

guitardave

Dec-27-2005, 9:08am

I wanted to take a year off, but was pretty much forced to go straight to college. Several of my friends did take "a year off". Several went on to college. The difference in their incomes now, 30 yrs later, is undeniable. Even 10 yrs from now, you may very well look back on "taking a year off" as the worst decision you ever made, because the "year" is still continuing, with a rather plain job you don't enjoy, but bills to pay and mouths to feed, and no way out.
It would be one thing to take a year off from your education because you have a dream to pursue, or just want to make a run at something. But you really don't; you just hate school. But anyone who has been to college can tell you that it is nothing like high school. That period is OVER. In college you reinvent yourself, and the world is open to you. The college years are some of the best of your life! Don't miss out on them!
If you decide not to go, I certainly hope you can get a taste of the real world, and have to pay your way for everything. This is a critical time for your parents, as they will have to let you sample a pauper's life without digging you out to help you decide what is important long term. I hope they don't let you down.
Go to school, study general studies, and stay on the track to be something. Not saying folks without degrees are not, but the successful ones had a plan. It doesn't sound like you do, just wishful thinking. Find a luthier near a college, and go help out in you spare time.
Just my .02, but good luck to you, although we make our own luck.

sailaway

Dec-27-2005, 9:38am

yellowmandolin, if I were in your traveling shoes i would hook up with Frank Wakefield and his band who is always looking for some one to video tape their performance , travel with them for 6 months, then go and work for Spencer Strickland learning to build fine mandolins ...... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

earthsave

Dec-27-2005, 10:24am

Take off a year and hit all the Bluegrass festivals you can. You can volunteer for admission and camping. Camp and Jam. Take pictures, video, and write about it. Major costs would be travel and food.

Jack Roberts

Dec-27-2005, 2:29pm

I was going to take a year off after college, but I only took three months--I went to Japan and I only had a 3 month visa. Then I got a job and started to work and go to school to take more classes. For 25 years I worked harder than I ever did in school, and pretty much enjoyed every minute of it until about 5 years ago when the corporate politics (and laywers--sorry J. Mark) started taking the fun out of work. 3 years ago I quit the job and started playing mandolin and spending more time with my wife and children. I started my own business, and I'm having fun again.

My only regret is that I didn't start learning mandolin earlier. But I don't know if I would have appreciated it as much as I do now.

chuck.naill

Dec-27-2005, 6:18pm

Just a thought from someone new to this site re college.

I am 50 and finishing a BS in Management and will graduate in October. If you plan to enter the normal work flow a degree has become mandatory. I retired from one company and went back because it was something that was important to me.

Think about working for someone like Gruins Guitars in Nashville. I know that some lutheriers like Wayne Henderson worked there and learned much about vintage instruments. Wayne is a highly regarding builder and at least used to work for the US Postal Service. You might just start out sweeping the floors, but it is a start.

Both of my older children started out in junior college and finished at a state university. There might be some real advantages for you in a junior college program

Yellowmandolin

Dec-27-2005, 11:07pm

It would be one thing to take a year off from your education because you have a dream to pursue, or just want to make a run at something. #But you really don't; you just hate school. #
If you decide not to go, I certainly hope you can get a taste of the real world, and have to pay your way for everything. #This is a critical time for your parents, as they will have to let you sample a pauper's life without digging you out to help you decide what is important long term. #I hope they don't let you down.
Go to school, study general studies, and stay on the track to be something. #Not saying folks without degrees are not, but the successful ones had a plan. #It doesn't sound like you do, just wishful thinking. #
Listen, I would like to know how you know I don't have a dream to pursue? #How can you make such an assumption after a three paragraph introduction? #You know what they say about assuming...

At this moment, I am *looking* at the possibility of going to a luthiery school/apprenticeship. #This is not my long term goal, but certainly not out of the question. #

My long term goal is (and has been for some time) to become a surgeon. #I have attended conferences, shadowed, participated (I lifted a patient from one cart to another), read books, and just received for Christmas a video set of recorded college lectures from an introductory anatomy class. #This is not just "wishful thinking." #

I don't "just hate school", I has not been a good time for me and think I may need a little time to figure myself out. #Because of my excellent grades, I was invited to attend OSU-Newark as part of their Academy program. #This is where you take whatever college courses you want (including honors) on any subject topic. #I chose to take a music history class, 5 credits, and an Afro-pop ensemble, 1 credit. #Since the quarter has ended, I don't know exactly what I will be doing with my time. #I have consulted the high school counselor about an independent study project within which I would compose and record an extensive song. #But the high school quarter has not ended yet, so I still have some time to figure out the details. #

And as I have said before, while my parents are supporting my decision, whatever I do, they have to interest in supporting me financially.

Oh, yea, I am still a junior in high school. #I believe I have some time to change my mind hundreds of times before I graduate. #This (taking a year off) is just one of the many paths I can take. #You needn't worry about me. #This thread was started to give me some IDEAS about possible situations and I really appreciate the many responses from people who have been there and done that.

Keith Erickson

Dec-28-2005, 10:25am

Listen, I would like to know how you know I don't have a dream to pursue? How can you make such an assumption after a three paragraph introduction? You know what they say about assuming...

Jacob,

Many of us probably made the assumption by listening to so many others before you that wanted to take a year off of school. Knowledge guided by experience has told many of us that when someone mentions "taking a year off" really it means that they don't have any intentions on going to school, tuning out and dropping out.

My apologies for receiving that impression.

My long term goal is (and has been for some time) to become a surgeon. I have attended conferences, shadowed, participated (I lifted a patient from one cart to another), read books, and just received for Christmas a video set of recorded college lectures from an introductory anatomy class. This is not just "wishful thinking."

That's awesome!!!! However as one who knows a few doctors can tell you; none of them took a year off. They went right into college a dove straight into the books. The reason; it takes many years of hard studying and hard work to reach this goal. The lives, families and "hobbies" for that matter were put on hold.

I don't "just hate school", I has not been a good time for me and think I may need a little time to figure myself out. Because of my excellent grades, I was invited to attend OSU-Newark as part of their Academy program.

Well it sounds like you've got the grades to prove that you don't hate school. If you are passionate about studying, why do you want to take off a year? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

Oh, yea, I am still a junior in high school. I believe I have some time to change my mind hundreds of times before I graduate. This (taking a year off) is just one of the many paths I can take. You needn't worry about me.

That's great you still have plenty of time to plan but don't make any 11th hour decisions. Those are the worst.

This thread was started to give me some IDEAS about possible situations and I really appreciate the many responses from people who have been there and done that

When asking for advice, sometimes we hear answers that we don't want to hear.

In the end, you will have to make the ultimate decisions in your life.

Again Jacob, best of luck to you in your endeavors. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

Yellowmandolin

Dec-28-2005, 11:06am

If you are passionate about studying, why do you want to take off a year?

I want to learn about another passion of mine, so it is not really taking a year off from studying! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Because of all the things I have done, I would like to take some time to relax and study something of a non-academic interest.

gnelson651

Dec-28-2005, 12:12pm

Because of all the things I have done, I would like to take some time to relax and study something of a non-academic interest.

The study of music or luthiery is anything but non-academic. Experience is the most expensive education you will ever get.

If you are serious about studying either, it will take alot of hard work and discipline, I doubt if there will be any "relaxing" on your part. As stated before, you may have to clean floors for a luthier before you can touch any tools for awhile, besides a broom and dustpan.

The "real world" is an unforgiving place. It will teach you well but be prepared for some heartbreak and disappointment along the way. It is not the romantic notion you may think it is.

That being said, it is good that you atleast are thinking about these things, at at such an early period. And asking for counsel. It shows me you do have a good head on your shoulders and you will choose wisely. If things don't work out like you hope, you have time to change your course for something else.

daisygirl

Dec-28-2005, 1:41pm

From my experience...
there's nothing like school to make you want go to work...
and nothing like work to make you want to go back to school!
Ain't that the truth...

FWIW, my daughter took a year off after high school, got a job and took one or two classes at the local college. She'd graduated early and didn't feel ready to go to college full time yet, and I think it was a great decision on her part. She's doing great now, dean's list and all that, and I don't know as she would've done quite as well if she'd started college at 17.

jstone999

Dec-29-2005, 5:05am

A fascinating thread, to be sure--it even inspires me to quit lurking for a few minutes.

For me, college was such a world-opening experience that I would recommend everyone who possibly can go should go--as soon as possible. If I were a tycoon, that's where I would philanthropize. I would give everyone the chance to go to college.

The thing is, real-world experience can wait. You're going to get it anyway. But some things in college are precisely good for people in a certain age group. College is about exposing your soul to the world of ideas at a time in which your soul is most ready to receive them. A high schooler is just learning the basic skills, but not learning to think. One needs a few things to do that properly: one needs a certain maturity that is lacking at 16; one needs to be on ones own, if not physically at least morally (although I would really recommend not living with mom and dad); and, most of all--and this is missing in an enormous number (the majority, really) of todays college students--one needs to be open. To already have a career goal is good. A willingness to change that goal is better. Some have said that it's good to be wiser when going to college. Maybe. I think one might be wiser experiencing the "outside world" AFTER one has attended college. I'm certainly glad I did it the way I did.

If college doesn't suit you, you can always quit, and without shame. But it might be that it will change your life, and entirely for the better.

You could also study music at a higher level than ever, and that while your taking your pre-med classes.

There are only advantages and no disadvatages to going to college right away.

And I know that this might be the case with other posters on this thread, but no one has mentioned it. I was a college professor for many years before moving to Europe. I wish I were still. I have a LOT of experience with 18 and 19 year-olds discovering the world and themselves for the first time, and while it wasn't for everybody, I believe it was a life-changing, soul-improving experience for the majority. By all means, give it a shot before taking your year off.

jeffstone
goettingen

rhetoric

Dec-29-2005, 7:46am

Please, don't go to college unless you know why you're going. It's alot of money to be spending if you're just jumping through hoops and killing time.

Yellowmandolin

Dec-29-2005, 8:45am

jstone999: I agree with you that high school does not necessarily encourage thinking. That is why I have taken several oppurtunities to expand my learning environment past the high school campus. I am, however, unsure about the maturity part. Are you talking about making proper decisions concerning drugs/alcohol? I understand that many high school students go out on weekends with the sole purpose of getting trashed. That is not maturity, and I am not one of them.

I have to disagree with your statement about 16 year olds lacking maturity. A blanket statment like that is really only true for some, if many, 16 year olds. Couldn't I also point my finger at the many older-than-eighteeners who are making poor decisons? I don't think maturity has a solid connection with age. In many cases they go hand in hand, but not all.

When you say that "real world experiance can wait" I really don't have any personal experiance, but I can point to several posters to said that they found the year off valuable. And like rhetoric said, college is a lot of money. I would rather get my real world experiance in before I have a full time job and all that other stuff to worry about.

sunburst

Dec-29-2005, 9:27am

The point of education, perhaps even the definition of education, is to gain knowledge and experience. That can certainly be done without going anywhere near a school building or a campus.
It seems that the point of schooling is a piece of paper that says you're educated. In fact, one may or may not be educated when one gets that piece of paper. I knew people in college who were able to get excellent grades without actually learning much at all. OTOH, some of the most educated people I've known had no diploma to alert the corporate world that they were worthy of being hired. The arguement about having "book sence" as opposed to "common sence" doesn't hold up, in my opinion. One doesn't preclude the other, and both can be valuable. By far, most of what I know and have learned did not come from a class room, but how does a potential employer know that? there's no certificate in life experience.

I, for one, went to a comunity college right out of high school. I'm sure there are others who, like me, don't know what to do next, in the late high school years. If I'd gone straight into a "real" college, I don't think I'd have made it. I wasn't prepared to do the work and make the grades. By taking 5+ years to get through college, I learned to study, and I learned a lot in the process.
What's another year or so in the grand scheme of things? There are so many good experiences and so much to learn about oneself and the world outside the classroom. It doesn't look bad on your resume either if you make the best of the time.

Oh, and having responsibilities and work to do doesn't mean you can't relax. I can fully understand the desire to get your head out of academics, for a while, to recharge. Also, like others have stated, my experience with college was far, far better than my experience with high school. It was, in fact, the most enjoyable part of my life, but It wasn't so expensive in those days. As for preparing me for a career, well, I'm a luthier now. The best path for me would have been to go straight into lutherie rather than college. Then I'd have another 5 years of trying to establish a "name", and that is what sells instruments much more than quality. I wouldn't change it though. What I gained from the college experience is worth more to me than a higher price on my mandolins.

I'm sure you've read Waldon Pond. Lots of lessons in that book.

gnelson651

Dec-29-2005, 10:49am

I will try to make this my last post on this subject.

Yes Jacob, there are degrees of maturity and some times 16 yr olds will show better maturity than some of their oldsters. My 16 yr old daughter is mature in some areas and I've seen 40 yr old babies that still live with their parents and don't show any signs of growing up.

Maturity, to me, is being responsible for yourself. It means being self-motivated without a parent (or boss) always having to tell you to do something you should have done without the prompting.In otherwords, self disciplined. (doing what you should do, when you should do it, whether you feel like it or not).

Maturity is maintaining your focus. It is giving up some pleasures or immediate gratification to pursue your goals. While I worked full-time and went to school three-quarter time, my social life suffered. I was willing to give up something (girlfriends, hanging out with my friends) for something more important (an education).

Maturity is having good judgement. It means making the right decisions and wisdom to move your life forward in a meaningful way. Good judgement only comes from experience. It is knowing and understanding that certain things are not appropriate at the time.

These are my short definitions of maturity. I'm sure others can add to the list. The point Jacob, is that while you may be mature for your age, you're probably not there yet. You haven't had enough experiences to make that jump. But based on your writings, you have nothing to worry about, you are moving in the right direction and I commend you on your endeavors to think about your future.

angrymandolinist

Dec-29-2005, 11:30am

College or no college, I think everyone should know what it's like to be poor and on your own, at least for a little while; you learn very quickly how to survive, prioritize, and enjoy yourself without much money -- finally "making it" and getting where you want to be is just that much sweeter too. And I honestly think all that is more enjoyable and valuable than living comfortably and without hardship.

Okay, I'll stop steering this ship away from the year off vs straight to college discussion.

John M. Riley

Dec-29-2005, 11:44am

Im 20 and in my 3rd year of college. I really would have liked to take a year off, and I would STILL like to right now. But I think if I did, then I would probably not go back. Know what I mean... I just want to get it over with.

jstone999

Dec-29-2005, 11:59am

Yellowmandolin, please don't be offended when I say that college needs a certain "maturity" that one doesn't have at sixteen. I don't mean to insult sixteen year-olds. I just mean that understanding something like, say, "The death of Ivan Illych" or Plato's "Republic" is something different than learning calculus or history. To be honest, I understand these things now much better than I was 18. But at 16 I had heard of neither of them. But whether one could begin to understand them at 15 or 30 is not really my point.

If you read my post again, I made the point that the university life is almost entirely geared toward a certain age group. To quote myself directly, I said, "College is about exposing your soul to the world of ideas at a time in which your soul is most ready to receive them." By this I mean something like between 18 and 25, but the point is not really the age, but my point about the soul. It may be that at your age, and with your particular maturity, you are ready for it now. Alas! the law requires you to wait (unless you are a genius who can jump through certain hoops very early.

And again I do not wish to offend anyone, and I am only speaking from my own experience, not as some kind of all-knowing god, but I had many, many students who were above the average age. Some were late-starters, some were ex-servicemen. But as a whole, they fit a certain stereotype: they were better students when it came to concentration and discipline; they were poorer students when it came to being open to new ideas.

I mean, to learn to read Tolstoy or Plato one needs a certain openness. When one approaches these works with a kind of "I've had a few hard knocks and I know a few things about life on the streets", one may be sensitive to some points that the 20 year-old might miss, but the same person has pre-conceptions coming from that sensitivity. Again, my experience only, but I would rather teach Plato to a 20 year-old than a 30 year-old. And sometimes I really wish I could wipe 25 years off of my life and read Plato again for the first time as a young man. Do I really understand Plato better today?

But I digress. My main point is that your question, truly and logically understood, is not whether you should take a year off, which is the question many here have tried to answer. No, your question is whether you should take a very particular and specific year off--that between your 18th and 19th, roughly. And what I am trying to argue, and I know I am arguing badly, is that is the precise year, for a great majority of America's youth--to which college is geared to have its greatest effect. I fully understand the money problem which rhetoric brings up, but he qualifies it by saying "unless you know why your going." And that's pretty broad. If your smart, and would like to expand your soul, give it a try. College shouldn't be about job-training. It has become that, but that is a bastardization. It's about growing as a human being. Who can put a price tag on that? If you can afford it, do it.

As for those who say real world experience was valuable to them, I cannot disagree with their experience. It was to them. Would it be for you?

Let's bring music into this. Was Charlie Parker any better after he had fought heroine addiction for a few years? Does Chris Thile need a bit of "street experience" to become more expressive? You focussed on my saying that the average 16 year-old is not "mature" enough to study some things. But look at it in reverse: do you need a year on the road, so to speak, before you can begin to understand Plato? Could you start now?

The life of the mind, like music, bears incredible fruit and gives immense joy. Why put it off? And taking time off might bear greater gifts with a bit more substance in your soul. I am totally convinced--and I mean 100%--that someone with a college education (and let me qualify that by saying someone who has taken their education seriously)is better equipped to enjoy tramping across Europe than someone fresh out of high school. I would argue that I was better equipped than the average college graduate when I came--and I was thirty-two.

In summary: Taking time off is something I've done and very strongly believe in. But it can wait. College can wait, too, but the longer you wait the less powerful an experience it will be.

(Now while the hell didn't I just write the summary and forget the other stuff?
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif )

mandroid

Dec-29-2005, 12:25pm

Travel overseas, dont wait till youre President , to learn about other countrys.

rhetoric

Dec-30-2005, 10:05pm

OK, jstone999, since I gather you teach at a liberal arts college and that you believe in all that "nourishing your soul" stuff, I thought you might enjoy this bit of humor.

This girl from the Hamptons has finished 4 years of private college but she just feel like she's missing something and so she calls home and says, "Daddy, I know I'm finished with college and everything, but I just feel like I need some culture or something. I'm like, just needing a bit of time off and I think if I take a year and travel all over Europe I could really get some culture before I start my career." And her Daddy says, "Why sure, baby. If you feel you need some culture or whatever you just use my credit card and go." So she goes to Europe and sees everything. All the museums, art galleries, historical sites, concert halls, and etc. And near the end of her trip she was in Florence and went to see the David, by Michelangelo. As she stood there in the great atrium she was truely astonished. She was actually experiencing beauty and she felt like she was really beginning to understand what was happening to her in college. And she felt herself walking forward toward the statue and she reached out and gently touched the knee of the great sculpture... and the David tipped, fell, and smashed on the marble floor into a million pieces. Curators, achivists, security guards, and patrons rushed into the room horrified... and she held up her hands, stopped the people and shouted, "I'm alright! I'm alright!"

jstone999

Dec-31-2005, 3:18am

Thanks, rhetoric: http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

And aren't YOU the cultivated one--if I had told the joke, I probably wouldn't have had her touch David's knee... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

And by the way, I don't teach at a liberal arts college anymore. But I did. So your guess was spot on. I moved to Europe in 1995 to see a few things, ended up getting married and having a child (well, my wife had the child, but you know what I mean)and getting stuck. Funny thing: after a few years here, I started missing some American things, and started listening to Bluegrass and took up banjo and mandolin.

Sometimes I think that whatever road we travel is the one we were supposed to. I have given yellowmandolin my advice, and I have intended it well, but in the end I think that whatever decision he makes will probably be the right one for him.

But if he does go to Europe, he should stay away from the sculpture.

jeffstone
goettingen

Bob DeVellis

Dec-31-2005, 8:04am

I can't resist chiming in. First, the obvious: ultimately the choice of what to do is yours. None of us has a direct interest in your decision other than the hope of passing on some accumulated wisdom that may help someone else avoid our own mistakes or benefit from our more fortunate decisions.

Maturity is, by definition, about age. It means fully grown or fully developed. To assert that you have fully matured now is to assert that you will develop no further. I'm confident that isn't true. I understand your resentment at the suggestion that you're not mature and agree with you that some people in their fully developed state aren't as wise as other people in their half-ripe state. Lack of maturity isn't necessarily a lack of insight or intelligence. Wisdom is the combined effect of intelligence and experience. I'm pretty sure that you have the intelligence part of the equation well under control, but the experience you've accumulated is that of an intelligent 16-year-old, not that of, say, an intelligent 20, or 40, or 60 year old. I mean absolutely no criticism or insult by this simple observation of fact and I salute you for your accomplishments and insights.

I can't help but note (as a faculty member at a university and medical school) that a desire to be a surgeon doesn't often coincide with an inclination toward power tools. I've known surgeons who literally wouldn't carve the Thanksgiving turkey (ironic, isn't it?) because a slip could cost them thousands of dollars while they recovered from a small cut and a big slip could end their careers. I'm sure there are some surgeons who juggle chainsaws while blidfolded because they, as a group, seem singularly possessed of confidence in their own infallibility (tongue in cheek here, guys, no offense intended; if you're a surgeon, you know what I'm sayin'). But, for the most part, "Sharp Objects For Fun in Your Spare Time" isn't a title you'll see on any surgeons' best-sellers lists.

A little personal history: I graduated from high school and went straight to college. In high school, I really didn't study much because I didn't have to. I got good grades without much effort. In college, I assumed the same would be true, did the readings in the courses I liked and never cracked a book in the ones I didn't. After the first year, I was invited to leave the university. That summer, a buddy and I were in a car crash (he drove), and I busted a leg quite badly, required surgery, and spent a month in a hospital. That winter, finally recovered, my buddies threw me a celeberation for getting my cast off, we went tobogganing, and I broke my other leg. I took evening classes at a local university and, the following fall,returned to the university I'd originally flunked out of. I finished in the middle of an academic year because of the time and credits I'd lost during my regrettable freshman year and worked as a bank teller for several months before getting married and enrolling in a master's program. After completing my masters a couple of years later, I worked for two years at a state hospital and then my wife and I went back to school for our PhD's.

So, I've had a series of voluntary and involuntary interruptions in my education. I'd like to think that I made the most of my time in and out of school but that would be a self-serving fantasy. I didn't make the best of either, viewed with the wisdom of hindsight.

Something I've come to learn is that there's a tendency to consider the consequences of the preferred option when someone faces a decision point but a failure to consider fully the consequences of rejecting the various alternatives. I'm not saying you're doing that; I'm merely observinging that it can be useful to ask yourself whether or not you've considered all outcomes sufficiently.

I have lots of friends who are physicians and, as a grad student and a faculty member, I have known many medical students. Many people find it surprising to learn that medical students can, and do, pursue other interests during their training. I know people who were actively involved in music, for example, while in medical school (residency is another story). In college, it's more the rule than the exception that people pursue interests outside of their studies. Often, these are formalized activities requiring a substantial time commitment. The most obvious example is intercollegiate athletics. For minor sports, students aren't necessarily given a lot of exemptions from academic responsibilities or expectations. Yet, they can maintain good grades while spending virtually as much time pursuing their sport as thier studies. (In major sports, the balance typically heavily favors the sport.) Also, most college students have jobs to which they may devote 20 hours a week or more. So, luthiery and college aren't fundamentally incompatible even at the same time.

These are observations, not recommendations. Now, a recommendation: if you decide to take time off, try to structure it in a way that will be explainable to the admissions committee at a college you'd want to attend. This may be as much about how you frame the experience as it is about the experience itself. For example, if you travel and arrange to attend a seminar on art in Florence, that half-hour may put a bacchanalian revel in Tuscany in a whole new light to a college admissions committee.

I've said enough. I wish you all the best and I'm confident that a bright young guy (or gal, I'm not sure we've established gender) like yourself will make the best of things and go on to a happy and successful life.