Getting over the awkwardness of playing

[pickinBob]

I played with someone tonight for the first time because we are working toward playing together regularly at our church. We are coming from slightly different directions. Me from celtic/bluegrass and him from , well I'm exactly sure where. We are trying to meet in the middle on common ground but it is a struggle.

Just wondering if anyone else experiences this and how you worked it out.

[Ranger]

hi, when you two got together was it for working out tunes to play at church? might try 2 or three sessions of just goofing around, let him play some of his favs, and you back it up, then switch. play cause your both musicians, not cause you have to play together at church next week.
once you start "feeling each other out" and have a sense of each others styles, then bring in the music for church.
play as friends first, then as partners.
Ranger
<"God puts a new song in the hearts of His children" (Psalm 40:3).> reminds me (don't ask why)...
God: "welcome to Heaven, here's your mandolin..."
Devil: Welcome to Hell, here's your b**jo..."

[pickinBob]

great advice John, thanks

[PCypert]

Yeah,
I've been playing with people from church for some time now. It's kind of interesting finding out how a mandolin works into the mix. A lot of worship guitar players (not all, but a lot I've dealt with) aren't the most music knowledgable. I've met a lot of guys who are awesome on guitar, but have only really played worship music and don't really know anything about keys or dynamics or anything. When I've played with those guys I just kind of sit back, watch what they're doing and spice it up a little in the back.

My wife is a wonderful example. The first time we tried to play together we almost broke up (while we were still dating). She knew I was a better player and felt frustrated at herself for not being able to synch with my playing (not that I'm all that great). We stoped, prayed, and let it lie for a while. Then we played with another couple. With the extra people (djimbe and violin) the focus was a lot more on the group and we started listening all around and found our groove together. Now its a special bond that has really brought us together.

My advice is to stick with it. I found in worship others like to hear my playing more open drone sounding chords with some "flowery stuff" (their words) thrown in from time to time. For some reason a lot of people don't like the chop chords so much. I feel like I'm just playing a little guitar a lot of the time, but it's still awesome to be there giving glory to God.

Let me know how it turns out with your group.
Paul

[John Flynn]

I have found first jams/practices are typically awkward in any genre of music. I wouldn't worry about it. What I have found is that it is more important to find common ground than to accomplish even modest objectives at first. I suggest trying to play stuff that you both enjoy and sound good on, even if it is completely off track for your final objective. Once you have connected as musicians, you can start to move to where you want to be.

Not to get too philsophical here, but I think there is a tendency to overlook what a unique and truly intimate interaction playing music with someone else is. As with any intimate interaction, it is important to take it a step at time and at its own pace.

[pklima]

This will sound rather mean-spirited.

A lot of guitarists, pianists and rock musicians suffer from a peculiar disease - they will play a song in the exact same way whether they're playing it solo, with mandolin or with a horn section. It's not entirely their fault (rockers are used to bad onstage sound and don't expect to be able to hear everybody else, and many guitarists and pianists spend a lot of time playing by themselves) but it's a fact of life. If you're dealing with one of those, all you can do is listen to them and play in spaces where they're not, if there are any. Or you could attempt to explain listening, musicianship and all that, but even if you convince someone it's a good idea to have listening skills those skills will still take time to develop. You might also run into a guitarist who plays with a paper-thin pick and makes a treblier sound than your mandolin. Not sure what to do about those...

[Dru Lee Parsec]

Not to get too philsophical here, but I think there is a tendency to overlook what a unique and truly intimate interaction playing music with someone else is. As with any intimate interaction, it is important to take it a step at time and at its own pace

That is so true. I've been playing guitar and Chapman Stick for nearly 30 years and I was kind of loseing interest in playing. When I went to a bluegrass festival last year and sat in on some jam sessions it completly re-ignited my love for music. It was that interaction with other musicians I was missing.

You can spend an aweful lot of time in your bedroom practicing and getting really good, but once you start to play with other musicians your whole musical outlook changes. It's a good thing! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[pickinBob]

Great stuff everyone. My struggle is that I know a few worship songs by the melody. I can play the melody and sing it but chording it is tough for me. The 2 particular songs are in E and one in D that I can play the chords on sort of.

The rest of my small repetroie are fiddle tunes and celtic stuff. Trying to find that rythmn for chords in the worship songs is hard for me right now.

[PCypert]

Let me know what you figure out for E. D's not quite as big a problem for me, but E doesn't sound right for what I try to do. And if you have a male leading worship, chances are about half the songs will be in E. I'm playing around with playing it D with a capo 2. But with my big hands that capo really gets in the way. My new problem is we have a new worship leader who sings really high and capos just about every song. Anywhere from 3 to 6. Then plays a bunch of modified chords and it's a pain to find the right mando chords. Oh well. Let me know how things work out.
Paul

[MWM]

I let the guitar guys drive the music because I never know any of their songs. Then I often play single note or double stop tremolo fills and modulate my volume. It's what used to be called "color" or "sparkle" by country music artists. The folks I know and play with love that sound in praise music. They don't like to play without it.

Regarding good tremolo. For many years I emulated Grisman's version of "Shenandoah Lullabye" as found on the "Not for Kids Only" CD. Peter Ostrushko is another good tremolo artist. If you need a good starting point, listen to those guys. Good luck.

[pklima]

You don't need to play chords, at least not in their entirety... the guitars are doing that already. You can play arpeggios or double-stops on the higher courses or do tremolo to add color. Don't worry too much about playing the fifth of the chord; emphasize the third and any color tones (sevenths, ninths, suspensions etc.) but don't forget to play the root on the last chord of each verse.

When playing four-course chords with a strong rhythm, I find it can easily be overkill when playing with people who don't exactly do strong rhythmic accents. I will sometimes drop the pick and play with my fingernails to tone it down somewhat - you could use the rounded side of your pick to the same effect.

[pickinBob]

Peter

You're torqueing my musical brain! I play alot by ear and havent totally learned the fretboard yet, but I sort of see what you mean. I usually ask what the key is and play a scale to fill in . The tremolo is a great idea too.

[Jozeca]

My wife is a wonderful example. #The first time we tried to play together we almost broke up (while we were still dating). #She knew I was a better player and felt frustrated at herself for not being able to synch with my playing (not that I'm all that great). #We stoped, prayed, and let it lie for a while. #Then we played with another couple. #With the extra people (djimbe and violin) the focus was a lot more on the group and we started listening all around and found our groove together. #Now its a special bond that has really brought us together. #

My advice is to stick with it. #I found in worship others like to hear my playing more open drone sounding chords with some "flowery stuff" (their words) thrown in from time to time. #For some reason a lot of people don't like the chop chords so much. #I feel like I'm just playing a little guitar a lot of the time, but it's still awesome to be there giving glory to God. #

Let me know how it turns out with your group. #
Paul
Wow! So it was a guitar, mando, violin and djembe? Were you playing worship stuff?

That sounds like fun...

I'll probably try my frist time with "the band" on Wednesday. Right now, I've got in my head to do more chords on the fast songs and picking on the slow ones - does that sound right?

[pklima]

Bob, I still think that learning the fretboard, basic theory etc. are good ideas, but my most important point is don't worry about playing all chords in complete form. If all that stuff about color tones and whatnot sounds way too confusing, you can get there playing by ear - just listen to good sax players and imitate their note choice when playing scales. Try listening to some older jazz standards (which aren't too complicated harmonically and thus easier to apply to worship music) - some Kansas City blues, St. Louis blues, Dixieland...

Jozeca, as long as you get to rehearse before playing in public you can try to play something different on each verse of each song. That will very quickly give you an idea of what works and what doesn't.

[PCypert]

Yeah,
We were playing worship stuff. Have some people at our church who have played on the Worship Circle Cd's. Good acoustic vibe worshipe stuff. I really love a more organic worship sound. If you haven't checked out worship circle go to www.entertheworshipcircle.com. The get better with each cd.
Paul

[Jozeca]

Yeah,
We were playing worship stuff. #Have some people at our church who have played on the Worship Circle Cd's. #Good acoustic vibe worshipe stuff. #I really love a more organic worship sound. #If you haven't checked out worship circle go to www.entertheworshipcircle.com. #The get better with each cd. #
Paul
REALLY?
Wow, that's awesome... Their percussion amazes me. I just have the first circle, I'll consider the other ones...

I would love to try guitar/djembe/mando/violin, but I'm both the mandolin and the violin player around here, so I'll see. Hmm.