View Full Version : What's in a hole?
Santiago
Dec-14-2005, 12:02pm
I'm wondering what the tonal or loudness characteristics are for an oval vs. F-shaped mandolin sound holes. Similarly, is there a sonic difference between similar Fs and As -- other than the better quality tends to go into making Fs? I plan to do a full tasting but want to understand what I'm listening to in advance. Thanks.
glauber
Dec-14-2005, 12:23pm
The current state of the doctrine seems to be that there is no difference in sound between "A" and "F" body shape, but there is difference between F-holes and oval holes. Ted Eschliman (jazzmando) thinks of this difference as cold versus warm water (http://jazzmando.com/rigel_g95.shtml) (search for it, it's there). There's also difference between flat tops and carved tops.
Celtic Saguaro
Dec-14-2005, 12:37pm
Assuming the instrument shape is the same, f-holes will produce more volume at a distance, but the oval hole is easier for the player to hear when playing with a group. #Tone wise f-holes are more focused, oval holes have a richer tone. #Taken to extremes a bad f-hole instrument sounds thin, a bad oval hole sounds muddy or watery.
SternART
Dec-14-2005, 2:28pm
Or other kinds of hole shapes
Santiago
Dec-14-2005, 4:15pm
Since I have both a violin and a Gibson 335DOT CMT guitar, I'm partial to f-holes and F Styles, but that's gives the O-holed models a forbidden fruit quality rather than matching the set I have, mix things up. I'll have to play a few.
Say, is that Mando in the D'Aquisto tradition?
Or other kinds of hole shapes
That is really a nice looking mandolin, at first sight it reminds me of a jack-o-lantern. And I don't mean that as a bad comment.
SternART
Dec-14-2005, 4:33pm
Monteleone Radio Flyer A model prototype.
With John's Malibu Sunset finish.
SternART
Dec-14-2005, 4:34pm
BTW as you might expect, this instrument has a very complex, open, and immediate sound.
harleymando
Dec-16-2005, 5:57pm
wow!!..that mando on the car seat is too cool!!!scroll fever?....gonna get my jigsaw out, put it on my rogue!
Bruce Evans
Dec-17-2005, 11:20am
Somebody correct me if I am wrong.
I was under the impression that the difference in sound between F hole and oval hole mandolins was more due to the use of X bracing or tone bar bracing than it is to the shape of the hole.
I don't think it's the bracing that makes the big difference.
Eric F.
Dec-19-2005, 1:08pm
Too cool, Arthur. I asume that's the Citroen that the Radio Flyer is sitting in?
mandroid
Dec-19-2005, 1:22pm
from what I see comparing my one of each [gibby A4, lebeda F5]
the bridge on F is shifted when the neck is made to have more frets off the body.
parralell bracing along the grain F holes, foot of bridge end on top of each brace
the fretboard is attached to the top on shorter neck 'A'
its on an elevated block on the F.
across the grain single brace closer to the oval sound hole than the bridge site.
the rim is a trifle wider on the A than the F, so body has a wee bit more volume.
[fractions of cubic inches not nessisarily spl].
difference ?, several variables to consider, each adds something.
more than a hole.
comparing shape of F holes on otherwise identical instruments will narrow the variables for purposes of comparison, of course.
that more of a builders topic.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
Michael Lewis
Dec-20-2005, 1:24am
The position(s) of the sound holes makes more tonal difference than the style of bracing. The bracing can and does make a difference, but not nearly as much as the placement of the hole(s). The shape of the holes is not so important for tone in my opinion.
sixstrng
Jan-14-2006, 9:59am
Regarding A's vs. F's:
I was taught (on guitar) that more mass in the body or headstock equaled more sustain. Since the scroll and the "common" F5 headstock both add mass compared to an A style, I would expect increased sustain to be a difference.
Also, with the scroll you hve a different shaped body chamber which should affect tone.
Just my theory.
Thoughts?
D'
chuck.naill
Jan-14-2006, 9:59pm
For an unsophisticated two cents, the F style's sound to me is muted or muffled. Whereas the round hole mandolin seems to ring out.
Old time music like that played by Norman Blake benefits from the round hole mandolins that he plays. HIs music is more mellow and sweet sounding or harmonic with the other strings.
I played a $2500 Eastman at Gianna Violins last week that was the best F model I have ever played. IT was just awesome and it was brand new, Steve had just set it up.
Chuck
Ted Eschliman
May-15-2006, 5:41pm
Succinct but subjective thoughts on F vs Oval hole.
It's in the hole... (http://jazzmando.com/tips/archives/000141.shtml)