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junksuph
Dec-14-2005, 12:00pm
OK Gang, before I get started, let me preface my question by stating that by no means is it asked in any other way that respectful....here it is....We all know that traditional bluegrass music is up to it'e eyebrows in christian gospel songs, (most of them, played well, make me cry, oh yeah, that's a different thread). Every bluegrass band worth it's salt, plays at least a few gospel numbers. I will guess that there are quite a few bluegrass musicians that are jewish. Is it difficult for a practicing jewish performer to perform christian gospel music? I know that the Whites Family started with the mother who was Jewish at the time, yet had to sing a song with the word Jesus in it, and nearly couldn't even say the word because it was forbidden in her family, who were former Nazi POW survivors. She decided to convert to christianity at the cost of losing her parents contact of any type. Thank you!

kudzugypsy
Dec-14-2005, 12:18pm
that's interesting - never thought about that one.
this is an interesting topic, hope it doesnt get out of hand.
i'm from the south, so i dont have much jewish exposure - there might have been 10 in my whole high school - but your right, esp during the folk boom, there were a lot of jewish kids playing bg - was the gospel stuff uncomfortable? i know where my aunt works (a bank) they cant even put up christmas cards.

Tom C
Dec-14-2005, 12:36pm
I've heard Silk City do some nice gospel tunes. Barry Mitterhoff, Dan Weiss, Larry Cohen.

Avi Ziv
Dec-14-2005, 1:08pm
Performing Christian music as a Jewish person can be different for every musician. It's not limited to BG, by the way. A large portion of classical music is Christian. It really depends on the sensitivity of each person. However, I think that some aspects of religious music affect some people more than others. For example - for many people, words are more of a problem than music. So they may have more of a problem singing a song about Jesus than playing a melody that's associated with Christian life. Bach composed church music #and yet orchestras perform it in Israel. On the other hand, you may know that the idea of playing Wagner music by the national symphony of Israel is an extremely hot issue and is generally unacceptable by many in Israel, because of the association with Hitler. Please - I am not making any comparisons between Hitler and Christianity! This is just to illustrate the point of people having various sensitivities. Many Jews however, do not have a problem with gospel music and can perform it without making it "their own", just like an African American can perform European classical music and sing Operas simply because of it's innate beauty. I am Jewish (if you couldn't tell by my name) and one of my favorite piano recordings of recent years is a CD of hymns played by Hank Jones and Charlie Haden. I think it's called "Spirituals Hymns & Folk Songs". I do have a problem saying "Jesus is my saviour" though in words.

The question you posed is indeed interesting, but I don't think there is a global answer to it. I wonder though if one can sing church music convincingly wihout feeling the meaning behind the words. But that was not exactly part of the question.

Avi

Fred's Mobile Homes
Dec-14-2005, 1:09pm
There is a dearth of bluegrass gospel tunes appropriate for Jewish performers. While some gospel tunes, like "Daniel Prayed" are specifically Old Testament, many do have to do with the story of Jesus and the New Testament.

There have been notable Jewish musicians in bluegrass bands, but contemporary composers of Jewish music tend to be more folk-oriented.

I would love to hear a Jewish gospel group with the quality of Doyle Lawson and Quicksilver.

Katie
Dec-14-2005, 1:12pm
I just listened to a band from NY that played a mix of Klezmer and Bluegrass. Interesting stuff, especially when you could hear the mode shifting as they changed styles. It all depends on the person. My Dad's Budhist and he goes to church and wants When the Saits go Marching in played at his funeral (he's from Louisiana). It's the same with non Christians singing in large choirs. Eventually they're bound to have to sing Handel's Messiah and Bach's St Matthews Passion (which is pretty damned antisemetic if you stick to the original text). We all make our choices. I'd love to play Klezmer and I enjoy Baliwood movies. If you think there is something objectionalbe about the music, chances are you won't play it.

Tom C
Dec-14-2005, 1:15pm
Klezmer Mountain Boys?

csstanley
Dec-14-2005, 1:17pm
The question you posed is indeed interesting, but I don't think there is a global answer to it. I wonder though if one can sing church music convincingly wihout feeling the meaning behind the words.
You answered very well.

Its what is in the heart that counts.

I've often wondered why other "religions" never write as many songs of joy and happiness as do Christians?

But this also may be that of being sheltered in BG music all my life.

Out of the abundance of the heart does a man speak. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

SternART
Dec-14-2005, 1:18pm
Oy.....it is all just music, or art.
I'm Jewish & my art is stained glass.
I have no problem working for any religion, & enjoy researching & making the
correct design decisions.....but a spiritual space is the same, no matter what
religion..no problems here with Jesus, Stations of the Cross, Holy Spirit, etc.

I'm as moved by a good gospel harmony.... as much as anyone...and if I could sing would have
no problem trying to get the right feeling in the song, or lyrics.

Same if it was Irish music, or French Impressionist music.....you don't need to be
Irish or French....to feel it & play it.

Don Byron, an African American is an amazing Klezmer clarinet player.....
or Japanese sing BG without even knowing what the lyrics mean.

sunburst
Dec-14-2005, 1:25pm
As it happens, The last BG band I was in was once hired for a wedding reception, and was told "no gospel". The families were Jewish, and apparently didn't want people singing about Jesus at thier wedding. A reasonable request, it seems to me. Sort of "sepation of church and music".

Anyway, it brought up a conversation among us, that pointed out that a lot of the BG "gospel" songs are based on the old testament, and the oxymoronic phrase "old testiment gospel" was coined.

BTW, I hope this thread doesn't take a turn that might call for a lock down. It's an interesting idea.

otterly2k
Dec-14-2005, 1:55pm
Avi- I think your response was right on... there's no single answer to this question, it varies by person. I'd even add that it can vary with one person at different times of life and as sensitivities and sensibilities change. And my interest in and personal tolerance for participating in expressions of Christian belief has also shifted and changed.

I have sung in choirs since I was a kid, and SO much choral repertoire was composed for church purposes or by church sponsors. Yes, I have sung many masses, in many languages. Not to mention Christmas carols and all sorts of other stuff. I did get to a point in my life when I no longer felt right doing that, and haven't for many years.

I tend towards international folk in the mando music I like to play. But I do play Old Time sometimes. Instrumental music doesn't affect me the same way that singing lyrics does. In a jam, I might simply play and not sing. And I'd probably decline to participate in a performance of Christian music. That's where my lines are, but each person has to decide for her or himself what seems proper.

and csstanley-- I'm not sure it's true that other religious groups don't write/sing songs of joy as much as Christians.

appreciating the respectful tone of this interesting thread...

Avi Ziv
Dec-14-2005, 2:09pm
Arthur - this is what I meant. You are an example of a Jew who has no problems performing your art in any religious context. I know several people with the same feelings. One our close family friends (Jewish) in Israel worked for many years as a mosaic restoration artist inside the church of Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem. She had no problems with it either. A very close person to me is a weaver who hand wove fabrics for church ceremonies. She was conflicted about it though. Others are strongly against it. While for you it's all about the art itself, for others it's not. I am not saying what should be the case - simply the fact that the diversity of feelings exists. I do believe personally that at a high level, spirituality unites people more than we allow ourselves to believe. However unfortunately in many cases religion obscures this idea and it's mark on our general consciousness (and general historic baggage) is hard to overcome.

Avi

woodwiz
Dec-14-2005, 2:24pm
My wife was faithfully Jewish, and she loved Gospel songs. "I'll Fly Away" was perhaps her favorite. I just ran across an old Shaped Note songbook where she had about 20 or 30 gospel songs tagged with Post-it notes.

Me, I was raised Christian, and I can do without gospel songs, but I think that if a person is so insecure in their faith that they object to another's music, that person needs to take a look at their own belief.

billkilpatrick
Dec-14-2005, 2:37pm
many, many years ago, prior to finding the mandolin (alleluia!) and discovering this site (praise the ... er ... intel-designer) my only musical experience was playing guitar and singing folk songs in greenwich village in new york. #most of what we played was gospel/mountain/woody guthrie/bluegrass music and i'd guess that 99.9% of the people playing it were jewish. #i always thought of the music was american.

i live in italy and what i play now - with a local group - is medieval/renaissance music, much of which comes from very early collections of pilgrim songs - "cantigas de santa maria", "llibre vermeil" etc.. #i'd like to say that the words don't mean anything to me but i'm afraid they do. #as a non-believer, they bother me a lot. #sometimes i feel like i'm shilling for the church.

enter the mandolin! ... and the oud! ... and the charango!!!

as the james taylor song goes: "you can believe it if you want to, but singing (or playing, in my case) works just fine for me."

doubting - bill

glauber
Dec-14-2005, 2:41pm
I wonder though if one can sing church music convincingly wihout feeling the meaning behind the words.
Of course one can.

J. Mark Lane
Dec-14-2005, 2:41pm
.....but a spiritual space is the same, no matter what
religion.
Nicely put, Art.

Religion is, of course, one of those things we don't usually bring up at a dinner party. Seems like a fairly intrusive question, to ask someone whether their faith is consistent with any particular kind of artistic expression. I tend to assume that my friends will make whatever decisions they make, from their own inner spaces, about such things; and I tend to confer automatic respect on those decisions, and discuss them only if invited to do so.

The great abstract artist Wassily Kandinsky, in his book "Concerning the Spiritual In Art," expressed the idea that all real or worthwhile art comes from our inner spiritual life (and he used music as a way to explain that, fwiw). I don't think he believed that it particularly mattered what religion a person was. I tend to agree that, at any level worth discussing, the relationship between art and inner faith has to transcend our various religious "boundaries." I think that's what Avi was kind of getting at, reminding us that Jews in Israel enjoy Baroque works with a clear Christian origin --without regard to the religion of the composers, they recognize the beauty of the human spirit in the works.

Whether someone chooses to play or not play (or sing) anything in particular is their own personal choice. I think it should be simply left at that, and let's focus on the beauty of what each person *does* chose to play.

Mark

tommyoliverio
Dec-14-2005, 2:49pm
nothing like a little jewgrass....:)

Joe F
Dec-14-2005, 2:56pm
I am Jewish and participate in many bluegrass jams, a few of which are held in churches. #I can chop and pick breaks to "Washed in the Blood of the Lamb" just as readily as "The Old Home Place." #One of the jam groups has been asked to put together a few tunes for a church service in the near future, and if I'm asked to be part of it, I'll be honored to do so.

The words aren't really an issue for me, since I can't -- and don't -- sing. #But I do have a deep respect for the spirituality of those whose Christian beliefs come out through their music, even if I don't share those beliefs.

Avi Ziv
Dec-14-2005, 3:13pm
Mark - it's interesting that you brought up Kandinsky. From what I read, he and the composer Arnold Schoenberg (both Jewish by the way) had an important, and mutually beneficial, artistic and social relationship up until the 1920's. They broke up, supposedly, over issues of Jewish identity. All of this played out of course with Antisemitism escalating in Germany. There was a special exhibit just about thier relationship and the effect on their art (and art in general) about a year ago at the Jewish Museum in NYC. I can't recall opinions each of of them held, but maybe this is somehow an illustration that idealistic sentiments cannot always be carried successfully into practical life, when you have to interact with other people. Some great art came out of that period - that's for sure.

Avi

mythicfish
Dec-14-2005, 3:23pm
"Can a blue man sing the whites" ... Bonzo Dog Band
Personally, I go back and forth on this subject. As a kid in elementary school we would all gather in the auditorium
to sing Christmas carols and I'd take a lot of heat from my Jewish friends. But hey, I'd sing the back of a cereal box!
Many years ago I learned the Ry Cooder version of "Jesus on the Mainline" and was not allowed to leave the jam without singing it. And I absolutely "killed" at my Bar Mitzvah!
Last time I checked, my foreskin (can I say that?) hasn't grown back.

Like Kinky Friedman said, "The don't make Jews like Jesus anymore."

Ted Eschliman
Dec-14-2005, 3:31pm
BTW, I hope this thread doesn't take a turn that might call for a lock down. It's an interesting idea.
John there's no reason it can't continue as long as we treat each other's thoughts with respect and polite, gentle discretion. Let's all remember there is a plethora of personal and communal faiths as well as cultures that span the globe represented here.
I'll have to agree; this IS interesting discussion.

Avi Ziv
Dec-14-2005, 3:33pm
"Can a blue man sing the whites" ... Bonzo Dog Band
Personally, I go back and forth on this subject. As a kid in elementary school we would all gather in the auditorium
to sing Christmas carols and I'd take a lot of heat from my Jewish friends. But hey, I'd sing the back of a cereal box!
Many years ago I learned the Ry Cooder version of "Jesus on the Mainline" and was not allowed to leave the jam without singing it. And I absolutely "killed" at my Bar Mitzvah!
Last time I checked, my foreskin (can I say that?) hasn't grown back.

Like Kinky Friedman said, "The don't make Jews like Jesus anymore."
I'm rolling on the floor here http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif:):)

Avi

mythicfish
Dec-14-2005, 3:55pm
Avi

About the cereal box ... I'd need an audience.

Curt

Jason Kessler
Dec-14-2005, 4:12pm
A few random thoughts:

Many "gospel" songs are pretty generic in terms of what they "preach." "Down To The River to Pray. "I'll Fly Away," these songs are about devotion and heavenly reward more so than about Jesus or church. These are concepts that are largely non-denominational.

Can one sing "Long Black Veil" without advocating adultery and suspicions of retributional murder? Can a recovering alcoholic play in a band that performs "Mountain Dew?"

I guess, as has been stated, everyone has to decide these issues for themselves. I used to sing in a Christian choir, and I'm Jewish. It was all about the music. However, it's a different story, to me, if I'm the only guy on the mike singing, "Jesus Is My Saviour," as someone stated above.

Very interesting thread. Happy, uh, HOLIDAYS all.:)

hlebowi2
Dec-14-2005, 4:21pm
I'd Like to add an amusing story. Last year at Mando Camp North, a few of us were in Alan Kaufman's (one of the workshop instructors) room at midnight where he was kind enough to be showing us some Klezmer scales and music. Sam Bush was staying in a room across the hall and he came over and told us a very funny tale of when he was playing with NGR at a Jewish friend's wedding reception and the hosts strongly requested Jewish music. Sam said luckily Bela Fleck grew up in NYC and they played Andy Statman's Flatbush Waltz for hours!!
Howard (Jewish mando player too!) #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Avi Ziv
Dec-14-2005, 4:38pm
Good story, Howard - and did you know that Andy Statman's Flatbush Waltz ended up also on a De Danann album? In fact, that's where I first heard it and thought to myself how much I had in common with Irish music http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Now I play in Irish traditional sessions - and totally immersed in this music...

Avi

J. Mark Lane
Dec-14-2005, 4:56pm
Avi -- funny you should mention Schoenberg. The biography of him by Allen Shawn just happens to be sitting on my desk at work. <G>

I know they had a relationship. (I believe Kandinsky was Christian, though.) According to Shawn, most of the relationship was very positive and supportive, and they both seemed to be working toward some "higher" goal for art (heady times, no doubt <g>). I know that in the wake of the rise of the Nazi's, Kandinsky left Germany and lived the rest of his life in France.

There is an interesting quote from a letter Schoenberg wrote to Kandinsky in the Shawn book. Schoenberg was warning of the risks of anti-semitism, and apparently this was around the time of their falling out. It's not clear and I don't know exactly the circumstances. Shawn reports that Kandinsky wrote back: "We --few of us -- who can be inwardly free to some extent should not permit evil wedges to be driven between us. Even if you dissociate yourself from me, I send you kindest regards and the expression of my highest esteem."

Nonetheless, I know what you mean, and yes, sometimes our lives don't quite live up to the high ideals we may claim to adopt. I guess we can still try.

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Avi Ziv
Dec-14-2005, 5:09pm
Mark, I stand corrected about Kandinsky.

I think that Shoenberg was born Jewish, converted and became a Protestant and then converted back to Judaism during the Nazi period, when emotions were running high and survival of anything really was in doubt.

Thanks
Avi

Avi Ziv
Dec-14-2005, 5:14pm
By the way, Mark - you have time to read at work?!

I need a new job http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

Avi

Pedal Steel Mike
Dec-14-2005, 5:32pm
I am also Jewish, for whatever that's worth.

I have 2 questions.

1- How many of us have played or sung "Roll In My Sweet Baby's Arms"? and
2- How many of us have actually laid around a shack waiting for a returning mail train?

There are 2 kinds of people who sing traditional songs. Those for whom the music is actually part their cultural heritage, like the Carter family and Muddy Waters, and those who do not come from that background who are interested in recreating the music and preserving the traditions. For these people, the music is not about their personal experiences.

A really good example of this is the sone "Born Under A bad Sigh" by Albert King. The song contains the line. "I can't read, I can't write. My while life has been one big fight." Well, Albert King really was illiterate, and the line is autobiographical.

But Cream recorded the song, and it's safe to assume Jack Bruce CAN read and write. Does this make the song a lie when he sang it? or a piece of acting? or a case of somebody preserving a piece of work that could conceivably be lost otherwise?

Personally, I prefer Albert King's version to Cream's. I feel there is an emotional depth to King's singing about his life that Jack Bruce does not capture.

I think the same holds true with all re-creationists and preservationists (regardless of religion). I think the people for whom traditional music has part of their life since infancy, be it old timey or bluegrass or C&W or blues or gospel or whatever, have a depth to their performances that cannot be duplicated by somebody who learned the music from books and records.

ShaneJ
Dec-14-2005, 6:24pm
The New Testament (Ephesians) commands Christians to sing and make music in (I always read "from") their hearts. This means that true "worship" comes from the heart. But, it also implies that one can sing and make music without the heart being in it. Of course, it is possible for a person of any faith to sing and play a song from another faith without being committed to the song's ideals, etc.... Whether or not an individual is comfortable doing so will vary from person to person. Some people enjoy singing and making music from their hearts, and I suspect these folks would have a hard time doing so with songs that didn't match up with their faith. Nothing wrong with either group, in my opinion. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Ken Berner
Dec-14-2005, 10:31pm
I am surprised that no one has mentioned The Isaacs here. Their story is quite interesting. You may have seen them recently on a Bill Gaither program.

mythicfish
Dec-14-2005, 10:32pm
.... but wadda do if you're young and white and Jewish
and your mom won't let you go down in the mines.. Shel Silverstein

woodwiz
Dec-15-2005, 12:21am
.... but wadda do if you're young and white and Jewish
and your mom won't let you go down in the mines.. # Shel Silverstein
I stick with Shirley 'cause she's the girlie meant for me.......

Gary S
Dec-15-2005, 6:34am
Jewish music has an extremely rich tradition of spiritual music. Nigunim or Nigns, mostly from the Hasidik movement are deeply moving,spiritually elevating melodies that are generally sung unaccompanied. They often raise ones spirits to an exstatic plane toward G-d. Much of Klezmer music is an instumental interpretation of this inspirational vocal musical tradition.
I believe all music has that wonderful ability to lift our spirits, and this world can only be a better place for it.
L'chayim...Gary Silverstein

luckylarue
Dec-15-2005, 11:50am
There's an interesting article on Andy Statman posted in the Cafe news where he talks about the connection and elasticity between different forms of traditional/roots music. Mr. Statman seems to embody the bridge between Klezmer, bluegrass, jazz, blues and probably a few other styles of music. For a sublime example, listen to his "On Air" live cd.

Nathan Sanders
Dec-15-2005, 1:10pm
Here is something which I posted last year around this time. I thought it might be fun for everyone to look at again, and I have no financial interest in it at all.

Oy To The World (http://oytotheworld.com/index.html)

Garrett
Dec-15-2005, 1:40pm
Andy Statman played at my sister's wedding. My sister is Jewish, my brother-in-law Irish, and the band moved seamlessly back and forth.

Personally, as a Jew with no religious beliefs to speak of, I love gospel. The deeper the better.

glauber
Dec-15-2005, 2:03pm
Andy Statman played at my sister's wedding. My sister is Jewish, my brother-in-law Irish, and the band moved seamlessly back and forth.
I played flute in a Catholic/Jewish wedding once. They requested Irish hornpipes and "Sunshine, Sunset" from Fiddler on the Roof. It was an interesting gig.

Ed Lutz
Dec-15-2005, 3:55pm
[QUOTE]I know that the Whites Family started with the mother who was Jewish at the time, yet had to sing a song with the word Jesus in it, and nearly couldn't even say the word because it was forbidden in her family, who were former Nazi POW survivors. She decided to convert to christianity at the cost of losing her parents contact of any type. Thank you!"


junksuph: Are you thinking of the Isaac's vs. the Whites? That scenario happened to the mother of this group and she is still alive and singing as a member. I believe that Randy Skagg's wife's mom is dead now. If not, that is interesting to know that this happened to the White's family too.

Pete Braccio
Dec-15-2005, 4:27pm
Hi all,

This is a really good and interesting discussion. I'm Catholic and my wife and kids are Jewish, so this discussion is pretty close to home for me.

Strange as it may seem, I have a much harder time with playing Gospel music than I do with playing Klezmer music. Must be something to do with growing up in New England where religion is more of a personal rather than shared experience. (I'm not sure if that came out right or not.)

Pete

John Flynn
Dec-15-2005, 10:06pm
The founder of the Folk School of St. Louis, Jeff Miller, is a Jewish person who is very involved in his faith. He played bluegrass banjo for many years in working bands. Now he teaches old-time and bluegrass music, guitar, mandolin, banjo and mandolin. He also gigs with various bands, including playing clawhammer banjo in an old-time group and mandolin in a klezmer group. He told me that he really loves gospel music even though it is not of his faith. He is just really attracted to it. When I was taking mandolin lessons from him, he would help me arrange tunes for Catholic Mass and he seemed to really get into it. I don't think there is a conflict here. I think Jewish religious music sounds great and if I had the chance to play some, I would love to do it. I'm sure it works the other way around just as well.

junksuph
Dec-16-2005, 4:46am
Ed, You are correct sir. I realized that after reading an earlier post.

Gary S
Dec-16-2005, 9:04am
I am a listener and a player of Olde Time and Bluegrass music.
I realize that the music is a reflection of the people who have created it.

Having said that, I am Jewish and while I love the heartfelt sounds of the music, I find that many gospel lyrics do not address my beliefs. I would have a hard time singing these songs with "Ruach"(heartfelt sincerity). I respect and enjoy those who play Gospel music and relish in all our diversity.

Gary

dan@kins
Dec-16-2005, 9:53am
One love, one heart, one song.

Cary Fagan
Dec-16-2005, 10:19am
It might be interesting to note that many of the first American musicians who revived klezmer music were playing old-time, bluegrass and blues at the time. I remember reading how one of these Jewish players was visiting a musician in the south who said to him, "Don't you people have your own music?" That got him thinking and he became one of the revivers of Klezmer.

but though I am Jewish myself, I like klezmer in small doses but absolutely love old-time and bluegrass. Perhaps we are sometimes drawn to "the other"--to something precisely because it is not from our own culture and we must find our own deep connection to it. And not only as a Jew but a northerner (a Canadian yet), I'm fascinated and drawn to the South whic I've only visited once so far. We sometimes have to put up with ignorance (I once heard a great Jewish mando player introduced as part of a band by someone who referred jokingly to him as a Hebrew. He was trying to be funny but it wasn't. And the other day when I was describing my practise techniques, a fiddle player told me that I was being "too Jewish" about it, whatever that means. But I didn't take it too seriously.)

One of my favourite CDs happens to be the Nashville Bluegrass Band's gospel one, To Be His Child. I just like the playing on it. Sometimes I wonder what Bill Monroe, that big sinner, felt when he was singing gospel. Maybe it's harder if you're actually a believer.

(As a side note, in my real life I write novels. And the one I'm working on is indeed about a Jewish bluegrass mandolin player. So some of these issues come up.)

Random thoughts. Thanks.

shawverscrossing
Dec-18-2005, 9:22pm
Check out Roger Sprung, an old New York Jew if there ever was one. He'll play anything. And do it well. Chubby Anthony once told him, "Roger, that's ragged, but it's right."

csstanley
Dec-18-2005, 9:25pm
I am surprised that no one has mentioned The Isaacs here. Their story is quite interesting. You may have seen them recently on a Bill Gaither program.
ANd I doubt that you do. They may be a little TOO conservative for most here.

Seeing as how the mother is considered DEAD by her family because she converted to Christianity.

sunburst
Dec-18-2005, 11:37pm
I remember reading how one of these Jewish players was visiting a musician in the south who said to him, "Don't you people have your own music?" That got him thinking and he became one of the revivers of Klezmer.
I've been trying to remember who that was.
I heard the story in a radio interview with whoever it was, some years ago. Seems the guy was taking "old time" fiddle lessons from an old man in the south. The teacher started to realize that a lot of his students were northern Jews, and asked that question.
I thought it was a good example of how our eyes can be opened to something by someone we wouldn't expect.

swampstomper
Dec-19-2005, 6:29am
According to the recent Harvard honours thesis "The Jewgrass Boys" by T J M Pertz p. 120-121:


New York City Jews would endure far crueler attacks, and far more pointed #questions as to the cultural legitimacy and authenticity of the music they performed. #Hank Sapoznik, who began learning banjo in New York City in the mid-1960s, #remembers the fateful trip he took down to Mt. Airy, North Carolina in 1977 to visit #legendary old-time fiddler Tommy Jarrell: # #At one point he had been making breakfast, and I was a vegetarian at the time and he was making #you know, bacon, eggs fried in bacon fat and probably the coffee had a bacon base. I wasn't eating #any of this stuff and Tommy is pushing it on me, ‘Come on Hank! Eat up,' more like a Jewish #mother than a southern fiddler. And I wasn't eating this stuff and at one point he goes, ‘Come on #Hank, what are you? A damned Jew?!!’"

Sapoznik replied that, yes, he was a damned Jew. Jarrell seemed taken aback, and #after a few minutes of trying to clear the air, asked, “Hank, don’t your people got none of #your own music?” #302 The young man realized that yes, they did, and maybe he was missing out on #something important. On returning home he interviewed his parents about the music they #knew as children in Eastern Europe, and recorded them singing several of these songs. #Thrilled with what he heard, Sapoznik began a lengthy career performing and recording #what has come to be categorized as klezmer music, often called “Jewish jazz.”


The footnote for this is Hank Sapoznik, quoted in Mark Rubin, “Henry ‘Hank’ Sapoznik Interview” (online) #http://www.tepel.org/articles/sapoznik.html Accessed 10 February 2005.

I just checked, the link is still active.

Cary Fagan
Dec-19-2005, 9:56am
Yes, it was Hank Sapoznik. From a book, I believe, that he wrote about Klezmer (at least that was my source.) It's around here somewhere...

Links
Dec-19-2005, 11:46am
Has anyone mentioned Kenny Gee's Christmas album?

Not exactly bluegrass, but you get the idea.

generankin
Dec-19-2005, 12:20pm
OK Gang, before I get started, let me preface my question by stating that by no means is it asked in any other way that respectful....here it is....We all know that traditional bluegrass music is up to it'e eyebrows in christian gospel songs, (most of them, played well, make me cry, oh yeah, that's a different thread). Every bluegrass band worth it's salt, plays at least a few gospel numbers. I will guess that there are quite a few bluegrass musicians that are jewish. Is it difficult for a practicing jewish performer to perform christian gospel music?
[snip]
When I lived in NYC in the early '60s, most of the BG musicians were Jews. #One of the guys who played a rather excelelnt banjo went on to play with Bill Monroe for a bit. #One Sunday in Washington Square, a large African-American dude listened for a while, then announced with a big grin #"Hey, you Jews got natural rhythm!"

I an not one (only honorary), but I am a Yankee. #Does that disqualify me from playing BG?