Discouraged.

[MandoRebel]

Hey, All.

Is this common? I've been playing for 1 1/2 years and can't seem to get past the average learning tunes from my beginers book. At the same time, I have a big problem with my left hand. I've had three surgeries on it and don't have full range of motion so it won't bend like it needs to. It holds me back a lot. I can't keep control of the pick in my right hand and can't get the two hands working together.

I've always loved Bluegrass music. My parents used to take us to festivals when I was a kid and the mando was one of my favorites to watch. I played drums from 7th grade through high school and I can read music. I have trouble with tabs alone but tabs and notation together is helpful.

My other problem is I've been unemployed sense May 2004 so I can't buy a lot of books and DVD\CDs to learn form but that's another story and my problem. I'm going back to school to get an Associates degree so that'll keep me busy. I also have two kids, both boys, one 15 years and one 3 years old.

I love the Mandolin and don't want to give it up. I started on a MM Bean Blossom A model Then upgraded, if you want to call it that, to a Fender "A", don't remember the model. Now I have an Eastman 605 #137. LOVE IT. But still can't play anything very well.

It probably sounds like I'm just feeling sorry for my self and that may well be the case. I just want to feel better about it in some way but don't know where to start. Any encouragement would be greatly appreciated. I want to keep playing but need some inspiration. I play with my brother and sister-in-law. They play Guitar and Flute\Hammer Dulcimer respectfully but for some reason that's not fully doing it for me.

HELP!!!

Thanks,
Russell McMichen

[jim simpson]

Russell,
I couldn't tell from your post if you play guitar already or not. If you do, you might find it useful to alternate between instruments. If you get a better result playing guitar, then you can at least get some positive reinforcement that comes with hearing what you do well. I find that the skills seem to transfer back and forth. The coordination that you are having trouble with will most likely improve on guitar rythm. Just focusing on rythm on the mando might be useful at this point as well.
Good luck,
Jim

[MandoRebel]

Thanks Jim, No I don't play guitar. I tried years ago but my young mind didn't have the patients for it. I've tried my brothers guitar but my messed up left hand wont even come close to reaching around that fret board. I can do much better with the smaller Mando fret board. Maybe I just need much, much more time than I actually have to get somewhere with it.

Thanks again Jim.

Russell McMichen

[csstanley]

Don't fret trying to get past the beginning tunes. Practice and practice and practice, and did I say PRACTICE those tunes over and over again. Perfect them if thats what you need to do.

Like Jim said, practice playing the rhythm on the instrument. I've only been pllaying for a year now and have gotten in with a group at church. Most of the songs we have been playing are songs that I have never heard before. So I'm mainly playing rhythm till I get the songs down in my head. Then I try and do a little improve and fill in with the chords.

And hey, remember, you play the instrument because you ENJOY it. Not because somebody told you to do it. Have fun and remember you got some friends here that have been through the same stuff. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Dena Haselwander]

Playing Celtic music helps me when I reach a slump. Here's a good site for music: http://www.oldmusicproject.com/oneils.1html

Try some jigs; technically good and very happy to play. Good luck, and don't give up.

[Jason Kessler]

We're all different, and so different things hold us back while other different things inspire us. I can only offer what works for me.

Me, I'm a team player. I play in bands. Even the best nights of playing at home alone do little for me except keep my chops up. If I have no one to play with, I stagnate really quickly.

I know you play with some family members, but perhaps adding another ensemble to your efforts might spur some momentum. For me, it doesn't matter if I even like the type of music involved; my last band was a highly electric reggae band, and I really have little patience for reggae. However, the level of musicianship in that band was so high (ahem, pardon ANY unfortunate puns) that the situation was made enjoyable and I learned a whole other aspect of my mando.

Something like this might generate some momentum, which you can then take back to your other band and to your own personal playing.

Hope this helps.

[MandoRebel]

Thanks csstanly, I get to practice about an hour or more a day. I would like to get with more experienced musicians and play but there's no one I know of. My Brother and Syster-in-law are both college musicians who majored in music and I learn a lot from them. It helps but I'm just not catching on very fast. Maybe I need more patients.

dmarie, Thank you for the sudjestion. I'll check out the wabsite and see if there's something there that inspires me. I do enjoy trying to play Irish tunes. My haritage is Scotch\Irish so it fits my soal somehow. I cant explain it

Thank you both.

[John Flynn]

At the first link below is a site for a guitarist with hand problems who has overcome them. He points out that Django Reinhart had a serious hand injury and Barry Abernathy, the award-winning banjo player for Mountain Heart, has only one finger on this fretting hand.
http://www.pauladams.org/Loss.html

There have been three instances I know about of award winning fiddlers with ONLY ONE ARM. There is a picture of one of them, Marshall Claiborne, at the link below, about halfway down the page.
http://www.oldtimemusic.com/FHOFBunt.html

As for being poor, many great musicians, including Bill Monroe, started out poor. There are plenty of free resources on the web and there are always people willing to teach a serious player in need. You say, "I can't keep control of the pick in my right hand and can't get the two hands working together." Well, I don't know a non-injured player who hasn't had that problem! I have it all the time!

I sympathize with your situation, but I think you may be feeling sorry for yourself and that is what is holding you back more than your physical problems. Playing should be fun. It should be your positive and constructive escape from your troubles, not part of your troubles. Enjoy what you can do and what you can learn. Be patient. Keep at it. Good luck.

[MandoRebel]

Wow, Thanks Mando Johnny, I know I'm feeling sorry for myself and I need to stop it. I do keep trying and I will not stop. I guess sometimes it just takes talking to someone you don't know to get things straight. I live in Georgia and don't know a lot of musicians near by. I know a guy at the local music store who is pretty good on Mando. I mentioned to him once about getting together with him and playing. Then I found out he teaches at the music store and I guess he feels if he just hangs out and plays with me he won't get paid for lessons. I don't realy blame him. He has to make money some way.

Thanks Mando Johnny.

[Richard Russell]

For my own playing, I have found that I have done better to work on some of the more basic tunes that are not as technical as some of the classic bluegrass favorites. #I have worked with Roland White's Approach for about a year and it has some great, basic tunes like Bile 'em Cabbage Down, and Cripple Creek. #Hearing Roland play these tunes nicely at slower speeds is inspiring. #Gradually, I have developed accuracy and speed. #I know that I have much to learn, but I am enjoying being a student.

Let the beauty of the mandolin, it's essential sound, inspire you! #When my hands don't seem to want to obey my commands for picking fiddle tunes, I play slower songs that feature tremolo. #Sometimes I play a simple tune like Amazing Grace, sometimes a more technical, Italian folk tune. #I think this technique is so beautiful and it is great for slowing things down to a comfortable level! # You happen to have a wonderful instrument, one that is well built and will yield full, beautiful tone. #It also has great punch when needed! #Let that Eastman inspire you as well! #In your practice time, find the notes and chords and tunes that just sound and feel good to you! #Play them as much as you want. #All the time you spend with the mandolin in your hands will add up and over time make you better! # Enjoy!!!

[DryBones]

hang in there. I have been playing for about 6 months and get frustrated too at the slow progress I make. Being a lefty, I started out with a"handicap" http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #
Whenever I get frustrated, I have to tell myself its all for fun. I never plan to do anything more than play for myself and my family unless I happen to meet other players and do a bit of jammin someday down the road. I also spend a lot of time searching and downloading free Tabs and try to play something different ever few days.Then when I go back to songs I have been playing they seem easier for some reason. No matter what,don't give it up...mandos are too dang much fun even if you don't play great! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

Jason

[ShaneJ]

MandoRebel, we all wish we could play better - and that's a great goal. But, I'd rather listen to someone play a simple melody at a moderate tempo very cleanly and with feeling than listen to someone trying to play Chris Thile-fast and missing a bunch of notes and sounding "almost, but not there yet". There ain't nothing wrong with just picking a nice song, singing along, and having fun. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Don't get me wrong, stretching yourself, learning new techniques, getting cleaner and faster, etc....are all good things to work on. We should all practice new stuff regularly. BUT...we should all spend more time playing something for the enjoyment of playing music. It's hard in our society to let go of the "gotta get bigger and better and more" mindset. Striving to grow and improve are what makes America great, but I often get myself into more messes by trying to turn everything in life into something that must be conquered. I need to stop and smell the roses more myself - or if there aren't any roses in the yard I could just sit on the porch and pick a little, just for fun.

Have fun yourself, and merry Christmas! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[MandoRebel]

arrich, DryBones, SJennings, Thanks folks. I tfeels better for someone to cheer you on sometimes. I looked at the websites sugested by Mando Johnny. Very inspiring. I will get past this. I don't give up very easely but sometimes I wonder what I'm getting myself into. I do love my Eastman. I've even installed an abbreviated pick guard myself and had to set the intonation.

I love this web site. Thanks everyone for the kind words and inspiration. I will stick with it and maybe I'll start to move past this rut I'm in.

Thank you all.

[ShaneJ]

Read this other thread (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=3;t=30246;) if you havn't already for some good ideas on slow, melodic tunes to play. Wayfaring Stranger and different waltzes, etc.... They are awesome songs to play. Maiden's Prayer and Faded Love are two of my favorites, being a lifelong Bob Wills fan. Amazing Grace is another GREAT tune to play that is easy. Those songs, to me, sound better with simpler versions. Try to add to much improv and jazz them up, and they just aren't the same music that touches your soul.

[MandoRebel]

SJennings, I'll work on some of those. They do seem to come easier to me. I wish I could mix in the harmony while playing them. I only seem to be able to get the melody down. Not all that knoledgable on mixing in harmony.

I learned "Kathy's Waltz" from a book I was able to buy called "Mel Bay's Master Anthology of Mandolin Solos, Volume One". It's one of my favorites to play.

I play at my parents house a lot and my Dad loves to listen to the sound of the instrument. He will end up going to sleep. I don't know if thats a good thing or a bad thing.

Thanks again.

[ShaneJ]

It's a good thing.

[MandoRebel]

You folks are too good. Now it's late and the family is all asleep and I want to play. Wow, there's nothing like good therapy to get one motivated.

[Richard Russell]

Just trying to turn "discouraged" into "encouraged"!!!

Have a great night! I think this discussion has been good for you and many others(including myself). Ruts are just... commonplace in music. Playing music is the best way to overcome them!

[mandocaster]

where do live, mandorebel?

If you haven't already, you might search the jam session forum here - or post a query about your town if there isn't anything. If there is a shop that specializes in acoustic music in your area, someone there might have some ideas for folks to play with that are close to your level. Sometimes it can be intimidating to try to fit into an established jam. Persevere, though. Most pickers are very supportive of less advanced players.

I am a big advocate of making music with others. You will improve much faster and have a lot more fun!

[MandoRebel]

arrich, Thanks.

[danmills]

Here's an idea that might or might not fit in with your tastes and aspirations: concentrate more on songs (i.e. w/ lyrics) instead of tunes (instrumentals). With a few easily fretted double stops, a solid rhythm in your right hand, and some tremolo, you can bang out a perfectly delightful mando break that clearly evokes the melody without a lot of intricate or demanding left hand work.

Personally, I'm not overly fond of playing or listening to too many instrumentals anyway (a revelation which earned me a quizzical stare at a party the other night, and the comment that I'm an "unusual mandolin player"). For one thing, instrumentals can be pretty demanding technically, and in the hands of people like me (an intermediate player on my good days) they tend to lose a lot of their luster. But really, I just think the juice in bluegrass is in the singing, supported by the instruments, with a few instrumentals thrown in for spice.

So, if you can also learn (or have already learned) to sing a little, or better yet, sing a little harmony, combining that w/ your new-found solo skills could be very satisfying, and get you a warm welcome at many jams.

Whichever way you go, I hope you enjoy the journey.
Cheers,
Dan

[MandoRebel]

Dan, Thanks. I'm not much of a singer. I do like to sing but normaly only when I'm in the car alone or in some plase where there's a whole lot of other people singing. I guess I don't have a nasty voice but it's not powerful either. I try to play simple tunes I can hum to but I only know a couple.

[MandoRebel]

F4Fake, Thanks. I just saw your post this morning. You must have typed it while I was typing a response to another post. I would love to get with other musicians, especialy someone with a Mando. There just don't seem to be any around here in Georgia. I'm sure there are, I just don't know them.

I'll just have to keep pluging along like I am. I'll get there sooner or later.

Thanks again.

[csstanley]

Just trying to turn "discouraged" into "encouraged"!!!
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

This IS a GREAT site aint it!!!!

Lets not forget Scott over the holidays for his fine work of bringing a good group of guys and gals together.

[MandoRebel]

[QUOTE](csstanley@Dec. 14 2005, 08:07)
This IS a GREAT site aint it!!!!

Lets not forget Scott over the holidays for his fine work of bringing a good group of guys and gals together.

csstanly, your absolutly correct. I get more from this site than from anywhere else I've visited.

Thanks Scott.

[makoto]

Lots of great suggestions and gestures of helpful advice here that are inspiring to me, thanks for starting this thread. Some ideas that have helped me get through similiar plateaus:
(1) Have a daily practice schedule that includes warm ups for the right and left hand, some technical studies that could include scales, chord progressions, or any simple way to work out on the fretboard. Your repertory will improve gradually and this is a good way to spend time on your instrument. Play slowly and use a metronome during this time, concentrate on tone and accuracy.
(2) Always have a list of songs or tunes that you already know and review them, some that you are working on, and some that you want to play but are currently beyond your ability. Setting goals has always helped me stay focused and motivated.
(3) Don't compare yourself to anyone else. This is not a competition. Music is a way to express your own feelings. Practice is only a means to that end but can be fulfilling in itself. If you play from your heart you will always be successful.
Good luck to you!

[357mag]

I have some problems with my left hand also, due to arthritis. I just plug along with it. As long as I keep getting some fun and enjoyment out of it, I will keep playing. I know my limitations and just improvise where necessary. Works for me! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[John Rosett]

another thing to consider is making your mandolin as easy to play as possible. my little finger on my fretting hand started going bad from osteoarthritis about two years ago, and is now almost useless on mandolin. i have an old gibson mandolin, with the fingerboard right on the top, as opposed to the raised fingerboard of most modern mandolins. it also has really low action, and it's much easier for me to play. i think that the lower bridge contributes to less string tension, and that makes it easier to play. at the very least, experiment with lowering the action on your mandolin, and try some lighter gauge strings. if you can, take it to a good luthier for a set up, and let them know that you're after playing ease. if you get a chance, play some of the old gibson A50's and A40's from the 50's and 60's. there usually quite affordable, and a well set up one is very comfortable to play compared to to the modern F style mandolins. good luck, and don't give up!

[billkilpatrick]

another thing to bust a slump - they're temporary anyway - might be to study what you're playing in order to understand how music works. the medieval/renaissance dance tunes i prefer to play are very simple, single voice melodies and it's not all that hard to pick them up - play along with, at any rate - as i listen to them. it's another thing altogether to understand how they're constructed - to get the theory behind them.

mandolins are especially good at understanding music theory, i find. once i began to "see the light" on how the fingerboard is laid out, how it relates to what's written on the page, the modal patterns, etc., i swear to you, i felt my brain changing shape ... a real awakening ... wonderful ... after a lifetime of plunking along with same old chords, over and over again on a guitar.

think about the poor unfortunates out there who have no knowledge what-so-ever of any musical instrument ... couldn't play a tune if they tried. now THAT is sad ...

irrepressibly bright and cheerful greetings to you from sunny italy - bill

[testore]

MandoRebel,
Give yourself a break, a year and a half isn't that long of a time.I used to play with a great player who had a thumb a two fingers on his right hand(not his index or ring fingers).I also played with a dobro player with NO ARMS!! That's right, he'd tape a slide and pick to his prosthetic arms and go for it. He played just fine. Also, look for better mando players than yourself to play with. There's so much you can learn from sitting next to someone who can show you one or two little tricks. We all have little things we like to do and if you see them done or hear them then it will help you develop your own.But whatever you do don't give up.
Gary

[John Flynn]

Hey! I play with NO TALENT. Try that for a handicap! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[Joe F]

MandoRebel,
If you can find a jam that's geared towards beginners, with an understanding leader, that is a fantastic way to get past a plateau in your playing. #There is a great one locally that's held twice a month, and it's made a world of difference in my playing. #(Minnesota is a long way from Georgia, though, so it might be tough for you to attend with any regularity). If there is a music store in your area that is geared towards acoustic or bluegrass music, they may know of one.

Another thought would be to have your mandolin set-up checked by a local luthier, and adjusted if necessary. #A good set-up can have a dramatic effect on any mandolin's playability, whether it's a $50 plywood special or a $5000 custom-built instrument.

[MandoRebel]

To all who have posted since I was here last,

Thank you all for your suggestions on my situation. If you said I might think about a more playable Mando lik a Gibson A or something that's out of the question as I'm broke and unemployed. I have a very nice Eastman 605 and if it hadn't been for my Mom selling some property on the Tennessee River that wouldn't have ever happened. I did some research online about setups and got it more comfortable for me to play. I use J74 strings which are the best sounding string and easy enough to fret. I got the action a little too low because I get some string buzz. Especially on the G string. It's touching the fret bars.

I'm feeling better about everything today. After reading all the wonderfully helpful posts from everyone here and after working half the day on my bathroom getting the shower working I finally got sone time to practice and got a wonderful suprise. I used some of the advice I ghot here and just slowed down and worked on some stuff and it started to work a little better than it had been.

All your encouragment and kind thoughts helped a lot. I'm feeling much better today. Having a family, no job, and christmas comming up the stress and depression starts to get to you after a while. I'll get past all this too. I have before.

So to all who have posted with kind words and encouragement I say Thank You All and a very Mery Christmas to you.

Feel free to continue to post. I'll be checking back.

Russell McMichen

[mando bandage]

I'm not much of a singer. I do like to sing but normaly only when I'm in the car alone or in some plase where there's a whole lot of other people singing. I guess I don't have a nasty voice but it's not powerful either.

Russell, there are accomplished singer/songwriters that come to mind that don't have angelic voices. Neil Young comes to mind among others. Sing out! Your voice is a muscle and improves with exercise. I was the same place you are at 1 1/2 years at the mando as far as singing goes, got with some jammates who wouldn't play the songs I liked unless I sang them, so... I did. Took a little while to learn to sing and play at the same time, but they didn't stop playing to cover their ears, so I've kept it up. Makes playing for the family more fun too when you sing along.

As far as coordinating both hands goes, I had a breakthrough when I learned to focus on the picking hand and make the fretting hand keep up. Always thought it should be the other way around, but your picking hand is your rhythm machine and it should be the driver.

Keep after it. It's good clean fun and cheap entertainment, MAS notwithstanding.

R http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[MandoRebel]

Everyone, OK, I'm all better now. I changed my mind set on this. You know how sometimes you just gotta let it all out of your system and tell someone who understands because it seems like no one around you understands. Well, that's what was happing with me.

So, I stopped my whining, pulle up my boot straps, got out my Mando and worked on it. And worked on it. Then worked on it some more. OK, so I'm no pro, but I do love it and I'll never stop.

Thank you all for listening and helping. I'm Back!!!

[Pedal Steel Mike]

If your left hand doesn't work properly, perhaps you'd do better with an instrument that places less demand on finger motion. Perhaps Dobro.

[MandoRebel]

Hey, Mike. Not a Dobro. I've tried that and don't understand it that well. I really love the mando and I'm starting to understand it. I've also come to realize that the Mando also has therapeutic properties that help strengthen the muscles in the left hand. I think I'm going to be OK with this.

Thanks, Mike

[Larry Simonson]

MandoRebel, One thing that I've enjoyed and found useful is to play along with a CD or tape. Just start with the chopping (an important BG role) and add a few special licks when you get the urge. No one will care if you play the wrong note or chord. This is the lowest pressure jam session around.

Find a traditional bluegrass CD featuring a bunch of 3 chord tunes and wear it out along with your mando's strings. You will forget forget about left-right hand coordination and will learn a bunch of new tunes. Before long you will want to take one of the breaks and you can also sing along without worry. Enjoy the ride!