Mandolin as a second instrument

[jessimanj]

Probably most of us here have played another instrument prior to taking up mandolin, although it may be our main one now.

Have you noticed that your style and technique on mandolin has been greatly influenced depending on whether you've progressed to mandolin from guitar as opposed to fiddle, for instance? Do you recognise this when listening to other players? Or have you thought about this at all? Would a player starting off playing the mandolin as a first instrument approach things even differently?

Personally, I started off playing guitar and I feel there's a lot of that influence there still. Although, I play melody I'll often still include chords and parts thereof in the tunes. I've also been playing fiddle now for a few years and find that this also informs my mandolin playing too i.e I'll incorporate some of the ornamentations on the mandolin and I also notice that my fingering differs from other players while I'm playing the fiddle; i.e I'll often use chord shapes and "lift" my fingers differently from other fiddlers.

Just wondering if anyone else has thought about this.


John

[John Flynn]

There is no question there is an influence. When I started the mandolin, I definitely played it like a little guitar. It took me a while to really play it like a mandolin, but there is definitely still an influence there. I found the reverse is true also, in that the mando has influence my guitar playing. For instance, I never used to cross-pick on the guitar, except for a few "signature" licks like the beginning of "Sounds of Silence," which had to be well-practiced. Now that I cross pick on the mandolin, though, I find myself working it in on the guitar all the time.

[POB]

In Irish music, a lot of mandolin players are primarily tenor banjo players and they tend to play their mandolin in a similar style. Lots of the ornaments they favour are based on the very low amount of sustain available on the banjo - picked triplets are a prime example. (I believe I've seen this approach described here as sounding akin to an old-fashioned typewriter http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif )

Speaking from my own perspective, I'd say players who come at the mandolin from the guitar are probably more inclined to use hammer-ons, pull-offs, slides and so forth.

[Avi Ziv]

I picked up mandolin with no prior experience with string instruments. I am influenced by other musicians that I hear, no matter what instrument they play. Since I play mostly Irish music, I listen a lot to fiddle/box/flute/banjo players and pick up ornamentation and phrasing from them.

However, I did play... sax for many years before the mandolin came along

Most interesting (to me at least) was the realization that some of my phrasing is related to where I would normally *breath* when playing sax. It's great how everything is connected

Avi

[steve V. johnson]

Oh, yeah! When I played guitar and tried to play mandolin, I never really made any good sense of the mandolin at all. Other guitar players would say, 'Just think of it as the guitar upside down...' That didn't really help... <GG>

Once I got comfortable with playing bouzouki (albeit in GDAD tuning) the mandolin began to make lots more sense. Yeah, I brought hammer-ons and pull-offs, as Pádraig says, from guitaring, but now that the fretboard, chords and scales are making more sense to me, I find myself picking up more of the fiddle-type rolls and ornamental stuff from the fiddlers.
Not that I'm -good- at it...

Clearly, without the time on the zouk, I wouldn't have had more than about a quarter of a clue about the mandolin.

stv

[PaulD]

I started on guitar, but always felt inept. About a year later I heard Grisman and borrowed a mandolin; it spoke to me in a way the guitar never did. Granted, I had only given the guitar a year and then had some stringed instrument experience under my belt when I picked the mando, but the mando has improved my guitar playing more than the other way around. The mando also paved the way for playing fiddle... but I'm with Steve in the "Not that I'm good at it" camp.

pd

[Peter Hackman]

Probably most of us here have played another instrument prior to taking up mandolin, although it may be our main one now.

Have you noticed that your style and technique on mandolin has been greatly influenced depending on whether you've progressed to mandolin from guitar as opposed to fiddle, for instance? Do you recognise this when listening to other players? Or have you thought about this at all? Would a player starting off playing the mandolin as a first instrument approach things even differently?

Personally, I started off playing guitar and I feel there's a lot of that influence there still. Although, I play melody I'll often still include chords and parts thereof in the tunes. I've also been playing fiddle now for a few years and find that this also informs my mandolin playing too i.e I'll incorporate some of the ornamentations on the mandolin and I also notice that my fingering differs from other players while I'm playing the fiddle; i.e I'll often use chord shapes and "lift" my fingers differently from other fiddlers.

Just wondering if anyone else has thought about this.


John
I' m not aware of any influence at all, mutual or one-way.
But whatever I play on either instrument
is motivated by the genres or songs I
play on them. And part of the stuff I do on them may
be influenced by common sources, electric guitar soloists,
violinists, saxophonists

But obviously, what plays smoothly, and sounds good
on one instrument, may not do so on the other.
I tend to use 3-note chords sparingly on the mandolin,
chords like c-f#-e (D9), c#-g-e (A7)
that I would NEVER play (in that same octave)
on the guitar.

I had very clear motives for picking up the mando.
My motives have changed over the years, though.

[Keith Newell]

I agree with Padraig (how you get that lil ' in there??) I played tenor banjo also. I had the great experience of playing fiddle, viola, french horn, trumpet, baritone, concertina,hammered dulcimer and bagpipes in the past.
The instrument you learned on tends to influence how you play and it did me untill I did what everyone suggests...I listened constantly to recordings and even did it when I went to sleep hoping I might absorbe a little while sleeping.
Keith

[steve V. johnson]

Wow, Keith!! Baritone! I was made to play baritone because an unscrupulous teacher needed more brass in the marching band... I wanted to play cello...

But I've survived... <GG>

Sorry for the OT... Now back to our regularly scheduled programming...

stv

[ira]

i don't play much celtic, but i love to listen to it and do lurk around these threads. this one caught my eye.
i played (and continue to play) harmonica for over 25 years- primarily blues, rock, folk. i find that my mando playing, especially leads, and fills between lyrics definitely are influenced by harp playing. i still often think leads in harp and the range is somwhat the same. so, my mando playing is absolutely colored by the fact that it was my second instrument
anyway, just my 2 cents!

[billkilpatrick]

coming from guitar to mandolin, the biggest problem for me is 5ths. my instincts still get me the wrong note.

closed finger positions, an understanding of the modal patterns and lots and lots of playing along with the cds i listen to will eventually - it! is! to! be! hoped! - curb instincts of a lifetime. i've learned set pieces on the mandolin but jamming would prove embarrassing.

[cyeiser]

I started on guitar as a young teenager, and picked up the mandolin only a few months later. I noticed, however, that my mandolin playing was really based on guitar. It wasn't until I actually STOPPED playing guitar that I began to approach mandolin with a clear mind, taking it on its own terms.

I'm totally glad that I learned how to play guitar at least passably, since I can follow along on a jam session just by watching the left hand of one of the dozens of guitarists. But I don't think I'll be getting a guitar again any time soon.

[piknleft]

Very interesting indeed. So what WOULD BE the logical choice
for a 25 yr. guitar player? Mando? 'Dola? As a left hander, I would think the mando only because we tend to look with mirrors where our retinas should be and substitute left for right almost inherently. That inverted guitar tuning almost seems somewhat logical for chord structure. Spooky! Thanks, Mike

BTW, I only wonder 'cuz I'm still trying to decide. The ?AS
is rumbling.

[Dfyngravity]

I played guitar for about 4 months prior to picking up the mandolin. Once I started playing the mandolin I pretty much stopped playing the guitar all together. I would pick it up every once in a while and dabble a bit but nothing extensive. Last year I went pretty much the whole year with out playing guitar. But in June I had to send my mandolin away to get some work done on it. So I picked up the guitar and could play much better than I thought. I quickly made progress and learned several tunes I knew on the mandolin. So by just playing the mandolin my ability on the guitar, or the ability to pick and quickly learn tunes really increased. In return when I got my mandolin back a month later my speed on the mandolin had actually increased merely because it was much easier to fret and because the fact that the frets are much small so I can hit more notes on one string before moving to the next.

So yes I believe playing one instrument will definitely effect how you play another.

[jmcgann]

I am starting a Mandolin for Non-Mandolin Majors at Berklee, and it is obvious that people with different principal instruments bring different skill sets to the table:

1) Guitarists are comfortable with the pick bu not the tuning
2) Fiddle players vice-versa

I started on mandolin at age 20, guitar at age 8. Once you wrap your mind around the tuning/fingering, it's so logical compared to the guitar. If you are a theory minded person (as I am), the 5ths tuning makes so much sense in terms of moveable fingering patterns, as opposed to the guitar, which in standard tuning is a combination of 4ths and a 3rd, which makes for the need of tight leather pants and a lot of grimacing http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[billkilpatrick]

"... leather pants and a lot of grimacing" - you mean my furrowed brow has nothing to do with age?

with the mandolin i became born again ... as opposed to bored again, which is what i was with the guitar. i've since started to experiment with different tunings for the guitar (currently tuned as a renaissance lute) which is somewhat better ... but that 3rd in amongst all those the 4ths still acts as a wall for me instead of a step.

i just put some mandolin strings on one of my charangos and ... hey whatsit! ... i've got a functioning - if erratic - bowl-back! 5ths is where it's at.

[Gerry Cassidy]

Bass has been my primary instrument for, well, too many years. My attitude towards playing the bass had become somewhat complacent. Not necessarily a good thing! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

Anyway, about 6 months ago I started playing my mandos more and more. I was at that point (still kinda am) of playing my mando:bass somewhere around 10:1. Just recently I noticed that my bass playing had started to get a little more colorful. My turnarounds were more fitting to the song I was playing and the note selections were more musical. I realized it was time spent on the mando, learning melodic lines and thinking in new musical terms that influenced all of this. Way cool! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif