How Old Are You? (and a few observations on music)

[jpsy422]

I like to think im a pretty young guy (about 20) especially since im just starting to play.

i read an article by herbie hancock today about how jazz is dying along with the players, how no one is there to carry-on the tradition of jazz music. and I got to thinking about bluegrass, and how its kinda going right along with it. i mean, nickel creek is doing a lot for it, as well as the O' Brother soundtrack, but when you get right down to it, bluegrass and jazz, REAL bluegrass and jazz is all but on its last leg here in the states. Clear Channel owns about 60% of the radio stations and they are pushing out jazz and traditional bluegrass to make way for more and more top 40 pre packaged crap.

so this is why im asking. is there a youth movement at all in the bluegrass/jazz community? Are the old guys (and gals) doing there part to pass on the torch to the next generation? I love listening, but its getting harder and harder to find new stuff (at least here in columbus and chicago) in the record stores because its getting pushed out by brittney and the backstreet boys and hip-hop.

Just a curious kid.
Joel

[Michael H Geimer]

Hey Joel,
Listen I'll stay 'on topic' by saying ... I'm 33.

But ... in the recent thread about the Cafe's posting guidelines, Scott mentioned he thwarted someone's attempts to identify minors among our membership. With that in mind, this might not be a suitable topic.

- Benignus

[MikeB]

Seems like an astute observation and a good question to me, Joel.

I agree that there don't seem to be a lot of kids playing #bluegrass, and maybe not jazz, either. #I'm surprised by the number of young players who frequent this site, actually. #

But, these things are cyclic. #When I was your age, Lincoln was president...no, that wasn't what I was going to say...now, what was it?

When I was a KID, the Kingston Trio were THE big thing. #Folk music was alive (again.) # After the movie
"Deliverance" came out, there was a surge in bluegrass and folk. #It slowly fizzled out until O Brother arrived. #Still, I'm not sure the kids picked up on OB, so much. #

Anyway, don't be surprised if in 20 or 30 years, if you keep on playing, the kids of THEN think you are really the bomb (is that even an expression anymore? I can't keep up....)

[jpsy422]

sorry, i just got here... i hope i dont get banned.

i dont mean at all to try to find a minor... im just asking just to ask, and that article sparked my interest.

if this isnt suitable, feel free to delete it, i didnt mean for it to be controversal... sorry.... i think...

[MikeB]

I don't think 20 is considered to be a minor in many respects or #many places, and I don't see anything improper with this discussion at all, Joel.

No harm in being sensitive to this issue, though, either, Benignus. #It just seems to me this one should certainly pass inspection. #Hope everyone agrees.

[jpsy422]

Anyway, don't be surprised if in 20 or 30 years, if you keep on playing, the kids of THEN think you are really the bomb (is that even an expression anymore? I can't keep up....)
i try to distance myself from pop culture as much as possible... so to be honest, i couldnt tell you ;)

i just got so mad reading that article today. (its from the chicago trib i think, in the magazine insert.) and i thought, if anyone will appreciate this conversation, its the bluegrass folk.

[Scotti Adams]

..me neither..Im gonna be 40 in May..or I should say Im gonna be celebrating the first anniversary of my 39th birthday. Most definently there is a youth movement in Bluegrass...barring Nickle Creek...they aint Bluegrass....they are good though..just hard to pin a label on. All one has to do is take a good look around at festivals and other venues to see the kids coming up. I was amazed this past year at SPBGMA of all the young guns playin and esp. mando players...Read mags like Bluegrass Unlimited and you can see articles and record revues of young up and comers...Id say the state of BG music is in capable hands... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/coffee.gif

[jpsy422]

my summer is a little booked, so i cant get out to any festivals this year (had telluride booked, but just couldnt do it)

im still really new to everything. I got into it by downloading a Bluegrass Sessions show from 1999 (sam bush, jerry douglass, bela fleck, gabe witcher) and i was REALLY impressed. Maybe i just havent looked hard enough.

i think capeable is a great word for this. the problem isnt the players though, its the listeners and the buyers...

[WV Mike]

jpsy, you asked a good question and we will be careful about the minor issue. #

I've been pleasantly surprised by the number of youngsters and teenagers that I've met in festivals in WV and VA. #This seems more pronounced in the Old-Time genre, which I personally like. #We have some awesome fiddlers in their teens and early 20s that have mentored (through arts funding) with the best of the best old timers. #

At the Garner Winter Festival in Morgantown, WV, I met kids 7-8 yrs old that were quite proficient. #This is very promising to me. Workshops like Augusta and Alleghany Echoes in WV offer full schlorships and funding for mentorships for young students. #We also have volunteers going to elementary and other schools and playing traditional acoustic music. #Heck, I even played my mando and dulcimer a couple of weeks ago at my daughters preschool and let the kids play my dulcimer. #We all had a blast.

Will these youngsters continue to play Old-Time or Bluegrass? #Who knows. #They may be the next Nickel Creek or develop their own genre. #I like what I'm seeing around here and I hope it's going on in a lot of other places. #

Take care, Mike (Age 40 Mando Beginner)

[WV Mike]

jpsy, I forgot to add that I found a good Bluegrass Shop in Columbus when I was working there a few months ago. I think it called the Bluesrass Shop. It's on High Street on the opposite side of downtown from Ohio State. Nice folks and a ton of bluegrass CDs and instructional materials. They have a jam session on Saturdays I believe.

Mike

[MikeB]

Another good point, Joel. #I guess you need players, alright, but you certainly need more audience!

Maybe the truth is there never WERE all that many bluegrass or jazz people out there, young or old. #MTV would seem to indicate just so. #You just happened to look up and notice you were one of the few. #I've been noticing it for 35 years, or so. #I'm always (happily ) out of step with the rest of the world. #Welcome to the minority! #You are in VERY good company around here.

[OlderThanWillie]

How old is Willie? #I'm OlderThanWillie. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/blues.gif

[jpsy422]

Another good point, Joel. #I guess you need players, alright, but you certainly need more audience!

Maybe the truth is there never WERE all that many bluegrass or jazz people out there, young or old. #MTV would seem to indicate just so. #You just happened to look up and notice you were one of the few. #I've been noticing it for 35 years, or so. #I'm always (happily ) out of step with the rest of the world. #Welcome to the minority! #You are in VERY good company around here.
that is one of the best things i have read in a while along with the post about the columbus bluegrass shop.

ill have to google that and see if i cant find something.

being out of step may make you feel out of place at a Big Ten school apartment party, but it sure makes it all worth it to come home and put on a bela fleck CD and fall asleep.

[phynie]

Welcome, phynie here, 26 years of age. I would love to push out some of that top 40 stuff with some jazz! You can still find good jazz coming out. for sure! It's just easier to play that top 40 junk(not easier to listen to, just to play) And as for the older generation, I think they are doing their part to pass the torch. I personally know of a few great jazz players in the chicago area that have showed me a thing or three. I take lessons with don stiernberg(if you have not heard of him, please look him up!) and he all but lights me on fire with the damn torch!
I also wish there were more of us, but what can you do? All I can do is keep playing in hopes of showing other people the GOOD side of music. And wait for movies like Oh brother and Grateful dawg to help people find out what that "little guitar thing that guy is playing" is.
Oh, by the way, what's bluegrass?http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[jpsy422]

jpsy, I forgot to add that I found a good Bluegrass Shop in Columbus when I was working there a few months ago. #I think it called the Bluesrass Shop. #It's on High Street on the opposite side of downtown from Ohio State. #Nice folks and a ton of bluegrass CDs and instructional materials. #They have a jam session on Saturdays I believe.

Mike
Does this look right?

Bluegrass Musicians Supply
(614) 443-3558 1370 S High St
Columbus, OH

[jpsy422]

Oh, by the way, what's bluegrass?http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Grab that thare jug and that stick, string ang tub bass and ill show ya!

::rolls eyes:: http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[Oren]

Joel,

I don't know what Herbie Hancock meant, and I don't follow bluegrass, so I won't try to comment specifically about those issues. I will say that "mandolin" music and playing seem to have been steadily growing over the 31 years that I've been fooling around with the instrument. Just looking at the number of really good jazz and swing mandolinists that are out there these days reassures me that the mandolin is becoming increasingly well-accepted.

Like you, I have distanced myself from pop, i.e. "commercial", music. What that means is that I've learned to negotiate musical subcultures, and there is an incredible variety and depth of music to explore now. The internet makes that so easy that I rarely go to record stores anymore.

As far as people your age learning music that is not "pop," I suggest you check out a fellow who is just about your age, and who is also from the Chicago area, named Aaron Weinstein. He has a website at www.aaronweinstein.net . He reportedly is now studying at the Berklee School of Music in Boston. I've only heard him play on a live recording with a Connecticut trio called Swing 39. Aaron plays excellent jazz violin and mandolin, and is also a former Illinois fiddle champion. His approach to comping on the mandolin is an inspiration. He has played with Frank Vignola and Bucky Pizzarelli. Young players like him cause me to think more about what we old guys can learn from the young ones, rather than vice versa.

I'm not worried about the state of the various alternative types of music. There will always be pockets of musicians and music-lovers who have juicy subcultures developing. The internet makes it easier for people with similar tastes to find each other. Like here.

Keep pickin',

Oren

[jpsy422]

oren, im checking him out right now.

man, this place is so great. i love how excited everyone is about everything and how genuine ya'll are. i can only hope that us youngins can learn from the old guys the roots so we can take it to new places. i mean, i still dont have a mando (still looking, probably get one in april) and i dont expect to be any good at it for a while. but its a community like this that makes guys like me want to learn as much as we can.

[WV Mike]

jpsy, that's the place. #I thought is was on South High but wasn't sure. #It's about 5-7 blocks out of downtown on the left in a old 2-3 story house with a blue sign. #You will pass a White Castle on the right before you get there. #Check it out sometime. #In fact, let me know if they still have a 1963 Gibson A model. #That's the year I was born and I think that mando might just be for me.

Jacob, hope to see you at Galax this summer. #I plan to be there Thur-Sunday. #Let's start a thread a month or so before Galax and see who's coming. #Maybe we can have Mandolin Cafe get together jam.

Mike

[Michael H Geimer]

Wow. A lot happened while I took that nap!

Joel, I wasn't pointing any sort of finger at you. I was just trying to shine a flashlight on something I thought surprised us all in the guideline thread. I just figured a simple mention would suffice to keep your discussion going, without it being a simple 'age roll call'.

Skimming through it seems like a cool thread so far, but I overslept that nap, and am now late for band practice.

See ya',
- Benig

[Dfyngravity]

Well I am not quite into my 20's yet. In fact I am just 18. I don't know if the music is dieing or not. Although I would think not. It seems to me that Chris Thile has made a BIG impact in bluegrass and acoustic music. Before nickel creek hit it big I use to be the only "young" person in the crowd at bluegrass events. But now there seems to be more and more. Although it isn't a lot, but it does seem that it is growing. I think personally think we are going through a Renaissance of bluegrass and acoustic music. And as for jazz, I love jazz and play a lot of jazz as well. If you ask some one that is about 40 or older what they think jazz is they will most likely mention someone like Miles Davis ect. But if you would ask me I might throw out a name like David Grisman, Django Reinhardt, Norah Jones. I don't think jazz is dieing as muich as it is kind of evolving into something just a little different from what it use to be. Just as how bluegrass has evolved from this traditional gospelgrass into what people call newgrass thanks to people like Sam Bush, Nickel Creek and so many more. So I really don't think that these genres of music are dieing but they are evolving into something different, something good.

[jpsy422]

i guess what i was getting at is moreso the commercial side of it. about how radio stations just arent playing the stuff anymore is a slot that lends itself to a lot of listeners.

as far as jazz goes, i dont think norah is really jazz, i mean, she has jazz players as her combo... but... its not really jazz... at least not in my eyes, its so exactly what you expect that it kinda just becomes pop.

Im really diggin on Scofield and metheny's album they did together and also Bill Frissel. these guys got some chops man. also, metheny album he did with wertico called "the sign of 4" crazy stuff. and of course miles, and even a little String Cheese Incident and Robert Randolph and the Family band (if you havent heard RRFB play, you havent heard a pedal steel wail!)

i like the way this thread is going. Im a big poster over at another msgboard... nice to be the small fish in the big pond again.

[Brookside]

Your mention of Herbie Hancock took me back to a night in 1984 or so. I was 14 and Herbie had just released "Rocket" which was performed perhaps at the Grammy awards? (someone help me out if I'm screwing this up) That was the first time most white suburban kids had ever seen break dancing or watched a DJ intentionally scratch a record. Within a very short time everyone was spinning on their backs and heads, scratching all their LP's and on it went from there.

Trends come and go. Music and styles fall in and out of favor. Every once in a while an original seed is planted. The roots grow deep; the trunk thick and sturdy. The twigs break and fall off. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[BigJoe]

I'm a very young 54 and have the opportunity to get a good cross section of what our young people are playing and learing. I can say this with absolute certainty, Bluegrass and Jazz is NOT dead or dying. There are some very incredible young people playing this music. It is far more expressionate than rap or top 40. It also gives the young people an opportunity to participate in a safe and friendly environment. Can't say that about everything. Anyway, the future of our favorite musics are in good hands!!! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif .

[psann]

It is enjoyable to see young people appreciate bluegrass and jazz. When I took up the mandolin three years ago my grown childred were positively embarrased. I bought my grandaughter, now seven, a violin two years ago and she is doing very well with it. When I accidently <g> call it a fiddle her Mom gets real defensive and corrects me. It is such fun to embarrass your children. Paybacks and all that. I am 58.

Pat
www.perceptionsinwatercolor.com

[mandoJeremy]

Hey jpsy422, I am 28 and I will just tell you real quick because of your comment....Look at where a lot of the them thar prefessinal pickers is from! #Try that state full of us dem dumb pickers in Narth Carlina. Nuttin like a yankee tryin to sang Blue Ridge Cabin Hone or any of dem like songs. We jus luv it the same as ole BiLl did cause our stupidness!!!!

[Michael H Geimer]

Very cool thread. (Apologies for any hi-jack-like comments on my part)

I think the OBWAT stuff hit my generation (30-something) more than it did the youth crowd. It certainly exposed me to alot of stuff I was very ready to hear.

IMO ... there's just something about raw acoustic folk music that is more genuine than modern Pop. Even Rap really had something when it was a still street driven art form, just a circle with some beats, some cardboard to dance on, and the enthusiasm people bring to the game.

Nowadays, it just seems like there is more focus on the product - the CD, the 10", the Video #- than there is on playing music. Add to that the ease of using pre-fab tools like drum machines, and samplers, and the whole pop side of music start to resemble most other media arts ... just computer retouched junk food, and "that ain't no part a nothin' ".

In the end it might all just come down to putting forth the right role models. I just try to always have fun with music when I'm playing for kids. I also have two teenage neices. They both think I'm 'cool' 'cause I'm a musicain. *W* One, plays angst-driven rock, and has given up guitar several times in favor of softball and ... cheerleading!?! The other sister, sings, plays piano, has just taken up guitar, and actively participates in community theatre. Go figure. So, as far as the teenage crowd ... yeah, I just let parents deal with teenagers. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

- Benignus

[Ranger]

i am old as dirt and twice as crusty...
now that i've admitted it, let's get to business. bluegrass and affiliated genre is definately not mainstream. i'm lucky that there are a few radio stations around here that often play bluegrass. by a wide variety of bands on certain shows during the week. definately not mainstream, but enough to keep me sane.
as for the younger generation carrying the torch, they are at the festivals, for sure. maybe it's a good thing that BG is not mainstream, it keeps the phony commercialism out of it. imagine a Suburu commercial with Earl Scruggs background music...<shudder> http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
Ranger

[John Flynn]

I am 51. My observation about this discussion is that we should not depend on Clear Channel or Nickel Creek, even though they are a fine group, or a any commercial enterprise to keep traditional music alive. Roots music is about ordinary people with day jobs getting together in the evenings and the weekends to play music for the pure joy of it. As long as that continues to happen, the traditions will carry on. The mass media and the commercial interests can sometimes serve to bring roots music to larger audiences, but in the end they choke the life out of it.

[Joe F]

50 here. #At the BG jams I attend, most of the players there are around my age, give or take 5 or 10 years. #However, there are several people who look to be in their 20s, and seem just as enthusiastic about the music at the rest of us. #There is even a little girl, maybe 9 or 10, who shows up with her mother and is quickly becoming a very respectable fiddle player.

There probably always will be a small but dedicated following of bluegrass and old-timey music. #And even though young musicians like Chris Thiele may not play traditional bluegrass, some of his fans will be motivated to explore the roots of what he's playing and learn to appreciate those roots. [DISCLAIMER: This is not intended to start a "Chris Thiele does/doesn't play bluegrass" argument!]

[AmosMoses]

I don't believe that Bluegrass or old-timey, or jazz or blues for that matter is dying out. I think there will always be a following for roots music. The number of proffessional bluegrass bands and festivals are a testament to that. It just takes some of us (i.e. me)longer to come to our senses

[GVD]

jpsy422

my summer is a little booked, so i cant get out to any festivals this year (had telluride booked, but just couldnt do it)

If you can make it to Winfield this Sept. you'll find bluegrass and newgrass is alive and well with the younger crowd.


Robert Randolph and the Family band (if you havent heard RRFB play, you havent heard a pedal steel wail!)

Ain't that the truth brother!


psann
When I accidently <g> call it a fiddle her Mom gets real defensive and corrects me. #It is such fun to embarrass your children. #Paybacks and all that.

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif #I love to do the same thing with my niece and sister.

Me to my niece - "Hey how's your fiddle playing coming ?"

Sister - "It's a violin!"

GVD

[Bob DeVellis]

There's always a tension for "niche music" between a fear of disappearing or being overlooked on one hand and of being overly commercialized on the other. To be extremely popular, music pretty much has to appeal to popular tastes, which almost always makes it less "pure" and sometimes makes it pretty unmusical. If bluegrass or jazz were reformulated so that they appeal to every kid with an ipod, would they still be bluegrass and jazz? Probably not. They'd be "bluegrass/jazz-influenced pop." The result may be good music or bad but it wouldn't be true to the genre of its origin. Sure, occasionally a relatively "pure" tune will break through to mass popularity because it's used as a theme for a popular movie or TV show. But short of that, most people don't get sufficient exposure to niche music to cultivate a taste for it. Actually, I'd say that bluegrass is doing extremely well for a genre that's more or less out of the mainstream -- especially instrumental bluegrass. It's heard (not necessarily at is best) in commercials and on soundtracks with some regularity. Here in North Carolin it certainly shows no signs of dying out. It's still pretty vibrant in other parts of the country I get to, as well. I'm actually pretty happy with where it stands now. I suspect that if it got a whole lot more popular, it might also get a whole lot more commercial and slick. As things stand, there is room for both progressive and traditional bluegrass and you can find some of both in most good-sized record stores. The same with jazz. Neither is a sure-fire road to fame and riches, but they never have been.

[Coy Wylie]

Great thread. I agree with the direction of the conversation. I hope BG stays out of the mainstream and the commercialism that would wash it out to sea. I'm 40 and not old enough to remember, but was BG ever considered mainstream? I know it was strong in the south during Bill Monroe's heyday in the 40's and early 50's. It got pushed out by Elvis but brought back by the folkies. Yet it was never really top 40 stuff. The closest I can remember would be Skagg's electrified BG numbers on the country charts in the early 80's.

I think as the "computer retouched junkfood" music dominates, it will drive more kids to the purity of accoustic music. From my experience, the old timers love it seeing this. I recently met a young college-age kid at a jam. He'd bought a b$$j0 and was teaching himself to play. Someone told him about the jam and he showed up. He was very shy and reserved but those older guys made him feel right at home. Guess what? He keeps coming back.

Just look at the resurging popularity of mandos. Note how this forum is growing. Pac-rims sales are high. Private builders are backed up on orders. You see the same thing on FlatpickingL list and Unofficial Martin Guitar Forum. Accousitc music, BG and other varieties is alive and well and growing.

[Darren]

There are a ton of youngins out there. From the traditionalists like King Wilkie and the Reeltime Travelers, to the more "experimental" like the Yonder Mountain String Band and Hot Buttered Rum String Band. Not to mention High on the Hog, Heartwood Hollow, Strungover, etc, etc, etc.

They are out there, you just have to dig a little to find them. Oh and by the way I'm 28.

[mandocaster]

I am 47 (choke, cough)

I didn't quite make it through this whole thread, so I hope no one else has covered this.

FWIW, Herbie Hancock was widely criticized back in the 70's beacause he strayed so far from "traditional" jazz with his funk-influenced "Chameleon" and the like. I guess my point is that calling Jazz (or Bluegrass) roots music means that we freeze a fluid genre at some artificial spot in time and call it "pure drop", or something like that. Young players might not be intrested in playing that game, necessarily. I think it is great when they do.

[mandopete]

I'd agree with Darren, there are quite a few good young bands that play in the "traditional" style, you might just have to dig a little to find them. #I would add Jackstraw from Portland, Oregon to that list.

Seems like traditional bluegrass music is actually in pretty good hands, I'm more concerned about the future of newgrass. #I can't speak for jazz as I don't follow it too much anymore. #Rock n' Roll, that's another subject altogether. #But I found one thing odd - my 16 year-old son got into music and playing guitar a few years ago, but his interest lies in what was referred to as "dinosaur" rock such as Led Zeppelin, The Doors, ect. #I find that kind of interesting and a bit of a comment on the current state of affairs within rock.

[GMatt]

Well I'm 20 myself, and I was never really a fan of jazz. I do love bluegrass and I practice nonstop at it. But as far as bands go Tool will most likely be my favorite followed closely by Nickel Creek. Please don't spit on me 'cause I like some popular music, as an instrument player I can pick out the subtleties that make these two bands different from the majority of their genres.

[Christine W]

Jpsy422, Have you ever been to IBMA you need to go this year in Louisville, last year here and you will see tons of younger like minded individuals. I think you will change your mind about bluegrass dying out. You have everything from King Wilkie who is more traditional to Addrienne Young who is more progressive and yes they even have a drummer. I loved it all. THan not to mention all the old timers I was in heaven. Listening to Roland White warm up before his set for an hour was just an honor.The guy I took one night had a blast he said he didn't realize how many young people were interested in bluegrass. By the way I'm a young 34 and just started playing two years ago.

[Rich]

I'm 33 today. Happy Birthday to me! I want a Gilcrest or Givens mandolin for my Birthday! E-mail me for my address! Anyway, from festivals to jams, bluegrass continues to thrive and grow like wildfire in Colorado! Jazz is very popular as well. I don't think there is any risk of loosing either and I know several great young people interested in such wonderful types of music.

[pklima]

I play in a jazz combo where I'm the "old guy" at 29. I think "Night In Tunisia" is the most recent composition in our reportoire. Styles do die or at least become withered relics, but I wouldn't worry about jazz or bluegrass meeting that fate anytime soon.

[jpsy422]

man, id love to get in a room with yall and just shoot the bull. you guys are so well spoken about all of this (maybe becuase you have this conversation more than youd like to admit...) My brother just moved down to Virginia and we took him down there to move him in and i tell you, that radio was like a godsend. there was ALWAYS something worth listening to on it.

And as far as the Ipod comment is concerned... i LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE my Ipod and its chocked full of jazz and blue/new/rock(???)grass(its out there!).

ALSO

Is there any want for live bluegrass? Im beginning to amount quite a collection of live (and legal!!!) bluegrass/jazz/phish/dave matthews band/etc. and i would be more than willing to make a direct connect hub and teach ya'll how to use it so we can start to (as we say over at sharingthegroove.org) Share the groove.

Id be willing to write an FAQ on how to use it and play the music, set it up for everyone, and get it going. it would also be a great place for everyone to share their own music through a MUCH eassier medium that having to host it on HTTP and eat up monthly webspace.

Im going to make another thread about this just incase people dont read through all 40 some posts of this one.

[Bob A]

Life and change cut both ways. Around the turn of the (last) century some excellent musicians refused to record for Edison because they saw it as the thin end of the wedge that would eventually result in the marginalisation of live music and, not incidentally, their livelihood. You can decide whether they were correct.

Meanwhile, the same recording techniques preserved and fertilised the spread of the Blues; then white America was infected by the Rolling Stones, themselves a self-marginalised group whose lifestyles kept them vigorously out of the mainstream, while at the same time giving them that cachet of whacked-out sex-and-drug-crazed sleaze that appealed so strongly to marginalised youth.

Now mainstream is a whitebread as ever; recording tech has brought self-publication of CDs into reach of many folks, and near as many folks as ever are making their own music, stimulated and challenged by those who are, and have, recorded their own musical vision.

Still, the best answer to folks who worry about the survivability of their music is this: if you want it to survive, pass it on. Make sure you play the music for folks who'll listen, and always have a mandolin around the house. Neil Gladd, a classical player of note, got into mandolin because he found a bowlback in the attic when he was a kid. Keep the chain intact - seed the world with mandolins!

[duuuude]

Bluegrass, newgrass, jazz & all them fun genres are doin just fine, just strolling around at the Strawberry Music Festival yer likely to hear young'ns playin everything from Frank Sinatra to John Prine to Bill Monroe to Billie Holiday, sounds like the future of music is in plenty good hands to me. I'm 51 goin' on 20 and pass what I can on to my son & nephew when they're into it.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

Has there ever been a musical genere to completely die out?

With the more permanent recording technologies can any genre that is viable today truely disappear?

[Mandodoc]

46, somedays 90 somedays 19. My wife and I took my mandolin and her washtub bass to our daughters 3rd grade music class on Monday and played for them for a while, then let them play the tub and the mando. They all seemed to have a great time. Plant those seeds and watch them grow. Music will never die then.
jon

[Bob A]

Dying out? How many minuettes and gavottes have been written lately? Insofar as madern recording technology is concerned, NASA is no longer able to access most of the taped data from the early Apollo project; vinyl is a doomed technology, and no one knows how long CDs will remain playable. Most of the computers that were able to read the true floppy disks are now in landfills, and when did you last hear a 78 rpm recording?

We're at a point in history when we're in serious danger of losing the ability to access the recent past; and with libraries going over to digital storage of their collections to save space, we may be in position to lose the past completely in a generation. You can read a book from the 15th century with eyeballs and education; but you can't read a CD-ROM without a machine, a very specialised machine. Wouldn't take much to misplace mankind's heritage completely.

Like someone said, after the nuclear attacks on Britain, "Pity about the Bodlean". Yup, I'd have to agree.

[Mark in Nevada City]

Hi Y'all!
I'm 37 and have three younger brothers (all musicians) and we all started going to BG festivals when kids. My dad's a BG banjo player so we grew up with the music in the house and now my 5 year old son is learning the fiddle. Heck, I can hum a tune to my 3 year old and he'll call it out--old joe clark...cripple creek...red haired boy. I have no fear that BG is alive and well with the younger generations.

I'm sure the "o brother" fad will wane, but its exposed a lot of people to the music (like Ricky Scaggs did, and Old and in the Way did, and Deliverance/Bonnie and Clyde did). I think the good stuff never truely goes away, but at times morphs into something "fresh" and that is what seems to attract the youngins. For me it was what New Grass Revival did in the 70's/80's. Oddly enough I enjoy listing to Nickle Creek as much as the Stanley Bros!

Cheers, mmm

[Blind_Cowboy]

Just turned 32. Ugh.

I can say this. There is nothing sweeter than watching a kid, who thinks T40 music consists of the best players the music industry has to offer. When they witness their first live bluegrass/etc.. performance, it's like watching a baby open it's eyes for the first time.

Blind Cowboy...

[straight-a]

I'll hit the 40 landmark in June.

I don't feel that bluegrass is in any danger of dying out. It's too much of a social genre. It's a music that can be shared by all walks of life and it crosses those boundries without effort. I've been in jam sessions where there were Cardiologists, computer programmers, law enforcement, upholsters, cooks, mailmen, auto mechanics and so on. There was no rank and file among the group. We were all on one level; bluegrass. I think it will be around for many more years to come.

[Michael H Geimer]

Bob A ... keep talking buddy ... I like where you're going with all this.

I am squarely in the camp that believes the whole shift towards recorded media is/was a bad idea. Your comment about the resistance at the time RCA began was very interesting to me.

Here's why I think Bluegrass and Old-Time, Blues, Jazz ect. can't really thrive in a media driven evironment ... acoustic music is inherently ephemeral ... it is meant to be passed on through oral traditions ... it is meant to breathe free in the air, and not be confinded to 'one idealised version' that got caught on tape. It is a living art form.

I think recorded and broadcast media have severed the important link between player and audience. i.e. Live music is 'real music'. To equate a recording with a performance is like confusing photos with real people.

I was struggling with these opinions alone for a quite while ... until I went up to Strawberry and saw for myself that there is a whole movement of people taking music back to its proper position in our lives ... real people playing music with each other, and for each other as a common event of life.

I have worried myself about the inevitable data loss that we will face over the next few years. To that end, I play in public as often as I can ... I encourage my younger relatives to participate with me in making music. Their parents often worry that one of them will damage an axe of mine, but I would rather that happen that have these kids acquire a 'fear' of touching musical instruments.

- Benig

[Christine W]

Benigus,
Well said! This music will always be alive because of the way it is passed on, not because of mainstream popularity and that's just fine with me. I never heard music till I heard live accoustic music. It's a feeling an emotion not something you can capture and reproduce.

With only slight exaggeration, I say who cares if a style of music dies? #I'm sure some are thinking "I care". #As long as someone cares, it won't die. #If no one cares it doesn't matter. #There is no evil force trying to kill off musical styles (although there are entities that have that unintended consequence). #It is you and I doing the killing with each choice we make as to where to spread our limited resources.

What am I doing about it? #I try to make good choices. #I took my teenage son to see the Seldom Senior in January. #I took him to see Buddy Guy last week. #I make a choice to buy CDs instead of downloading music. #I stop at the little bookstore and buy something periodically. #If enough people make similar choices, what I like will live. #Passively bemoaning how Clear Channel, et. al. are ruining music won't do anything.

[ethanopia]

25 Here. Good points Tim. I'm a little late to this thread, but its one that facinates me.

I think there are a lot of good youngins out there pickin. All of the big festivals are always crammed with kids just burning up the fretboards. I don't think the music is in any danger of dieing off. At contests especially.

Why just last year I and many other cafe folks got their collective arses handed to them in the Merlfest mando competition by a 17 year old and 13 year old.

[KYGirl]

33 here..This is in regards to the coment that was made about "REAL bluegrass and jazz is all but on its last leg here in the states". I guess we are lucky to live in Bluegrass country. #(Kentucky) #In our neck of the woods, bluegrass is alive and kicking. #We have 4 local jams a week, all about 20 minutes of my house, where there are a few children and teenagers who attend, and play. #I am on the board of a local Bluegrass Music Association and we are currently planning to implement a program for bluegrass education in our schools. #We are also working on coordinating a children's jam with a couple of the parents since the jams here go pretty late for the kids. #We support and donate strings and accessories to children's workshops. That is what we are trying to do to pass the torch on to our youth in our area. # #
Happy Pickin',
Michelle

[jpsy422]

33 here..This is in regards to the coment that was made about "REAL bluegrass and jazz is all but on its last leg here in the states". I guess we are lucky to live in Bluegrass country. #(Kentucky) #In our neck of the woods, bluegrass is alive and kicking. #We have 4 local jams a week, all about 20 minutes of my house, where there are a few children and teenagers who attend, and play. #I am on the board of a local Bluegrass Music Association and we are currently planning to implement a program for bluegrass education in our schools. #We are also working on coordinating a children's jam with a couple of the parents since the jams here go pretty late for the kids. #We support and donate strings and accessories to children's workshops. That is what we are trying to do to pass the torch on to our youth in our area. # #
Happy Pickin',
Michelle
my jaw is on the floor. I wish we had someone like you when i went to elementary school. In ohio, illinois, and michigan (we move a lot) i never once encountered someone that helped us feel comfortable playing music beyond the school band. Its just looked down upon in suburban communities. saddest thing ever. I guess when there has to be a "Save the Music" foundation, something just aint right.

at Ohio State (yup. the big one with 60,00 proud) we are VERY VERY VERY hardpressed to find some live music to listening to on a weekly basis. Im currently trying to head up a weekly jazz night through the school of music to let the jazz students play weekly in a public forum... but this place is getting me thinking, maybe ill try to get a few bluegrass bands to play as well. maybe do a jazz and bluegrass club. i mean, its Ohio, there has to be some good grass around...right?


there seem to be a lot of serious players in here... any quick input (one or two lines) on where to start? ive never played mando before and im looking to buy one in the very near future (acoustic/electric, 5-700, F style)

[mandofiddle]

I'm 28...

I did a quick search on Google for Ohio Bluegrass, and came up with a few links.

http://newgrass.freeservers.com/countdown/oh.htm
http://woub.org/bluegrass/

Midwest Bluegrass Association
http://www.bluegrassusa.net/

Try contacting a bunch of these folks that may be near you. There my be more of you than you think. I'm lucky enough to live on the Front Range in Colorado, and there's a bluegrass jam every night of the week within 45 minutes from me. There's also the Colorado Bluegrass Music Society (http://www.coloradobluegrass.org) that does a lot for the music around here. They have a bluegrass in the schools program too, where they'll pull members from different bands (throw together bands) and have them perform in the schools as well as give a little history on the music and instruments. They also have a great monthly publication that goes out to all the members which includes reviews of bands, upcoming events, band contacts, etc...

My band and a friend's band have been trying (and succeeding in some cases) to get into some Denver clubs that don't normally have bluegrass or acoustic music. Sometimes the demand is there, but since BG bands aren't trying to get booked there it appears that there isn't demand for it... If that makes sense.

[Mando4Life]

30 years old here....wish I would have started years ago but I've learned it's never too late...life long listener and 2.5 year(sporadic) picker.

Wayne

[mandopete]

Benig - very well said my friend, that's really at the heart of this isn't it? #The notion of people making music rather than just consuming it.

Sort of reminds me of the song Found A Job by The Talking Heads . . . . .

We've heard this little scene, we've heard it many times.
People fighting over little things and wasting precious time.
They might be better off ... I think ... the way it seems to me.
Making up their own shows, which might be better than T.V

[Michael H Geimer]

Christine & Pete,
Thanks for the validation. One of the reasons I'm here all the time is because I see so many people on this board who express similiar views. At Strawberry, some folk decided I wasn't a Virgin at all, I was just really late in arriving. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

As far as how this applies to youth ...

I grew up holding a false value that 'making it' in music meant putting together a band, being 'original', getting signed ... everything that a media driven market expects us to covet. Wow! Lucky me! I actually got pretty far down that road ... then this realization hit me like piano on the head.

Even though I was playing in front of lots of people I didn't know I didn't have one good song I could play for my folks come the holidays. I was too busy working on my 'art'. Pbbbbbt!

It was like somejust pointed out I was the emperor, and I was totally neekid. I basically had to quit band life.

My point here is that by the time someone is a teenager, it is basically impossible to convice them that working towards a gold record is a value-less pursuit ... akin to the Midas Touch. We have to teach the right values to them at a younger age.

On that point ... KYGirl & Mandofiddle, You rock!

- Benignus

[odeman]

I'm 55 - a retired rock & roll guitar player. With a job the past couple of decades that required travel, I tended to down-size out of convenience. First to travel guitars, then to mandolins and eventually all the way down to ukuleles. Right now I most enjoy playing my mandolins, although I have about 20 assorted instruments - depending on my mood.Playing music is a great way to pass the time when you're alone on the road, and a better way to hang out with your friends.

[Bob A]

Benignus, you and I are a match on some odd level. Live music is real music. Canned music is a poor second, in terms of actual sound and feeling, and in terms of emotional contact with an audience.

I've become a bowlback fan of late, and I've heard the opinion expressed that it is actually impossible to successfully record the things, because of the unusual overtone series. You lose much of the impact of the real instrument, playing to living ears.

That said, there's still a place for the unreal thing. Look at it as seeds scattered about. Play it live. Keep it alive. Do it for the ones who'll follow.

[mmukav]

Right here on this site is a great example of new, young talent in bluegrass, Josh Pinkham. Listen to his version of 'Fisher's Hornpipe'and you'll see what I mean. Nickle Creek is another fine example. As long as these wonderful instruments are being played, no matter what 'sub-genre' they're played in, is great! My bandpartner's nephew is a young upright bass player on the gig circuit in Chicago. He plays jazz, bluegrass, does it all!
The young people are out there,just keep pickin' and you'll find them. Today's my 52nd birthday.

[mandomiss]

Let's see.... I'm fifteen now...I think....Memorie's not what it used to be http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif . Anyway, I play both jazz and bluegrass. I absolutely LOVE playing bluegrass mando, but I also LOVE playing jazz bass. As a matter of fact, I'm listening to Duke Ellington right this moment. Caravan. How cool.

In my opinion, the people of my generation, and hopefully the next, will keep both of these wonderful musical traditions alive for years to come. My high school jazz band just returned from a festival and we all had an awesome time. There was a phenomenal dixieland band that came up from New Orleans and I don't think I've heard teenagers yell louder for a rock band. There is yet hope. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[NickelCreeker]

Still.. 14 here! Might I add Im a proud Mando picker.. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif
~Candy~

[jbrwky]

Anyone heard of the Puny Pickers in Virginia?

[Michael H Geimer]

"That said, there's still a place for the unreal thing."
- Bob A

I do agree. I just think we have the cart in front of the horse.

[Dru Lee Parsec]

45 and feeling it.

The upside of easily produced CDs and the internet is that it is possible for a musician to make some money now WITHOUT selling his soul to a record company. Bob Culbertson (http://www.stickmusic.com/), a friend of mine, has sold roughly 300,000 CDs in the past 15 years. Now that wouldn't be much if he was getting $1 a CD and had to pay back all the promotion cost to his record company like most artist do. But he self publishes and sells his CDs at his gigs. He gets paid for the gig, sells a few CDs, gives lessons and makes a decent living doing what he loves.

He's not famous, he's not on the radio and doesn't have a gold album. But he gets to do what he loves and he can afford to live on what he makes (He also works his butt off). So if you ignore the need for fame and focus on being a musician then it's certainly possible to survive as a musician these days. I think that's a pretty cool side effect of easy CD production.

Isn't it ironic how the Record Company's draconian contracts and manipulation of their artist is pushing more and more people towards independently produced music?

[A9cp]

51 years young here. I just can't see Bluegrass becoming "mainstream" like the Eagles, Stones, Brooks & Dunn just to name a few. Nothing wrong with that music, I happen to like it, but look at what happened in general when mainstreaming occurs. The fans sees, High ticket prices, the musicians are not really accessible to "talk shop", records prices rise and commercialism takes over. Of course we have some commercialism in Bluegrass not saying we don't, but not to the extreme as mainstream music. My take is Bluegrass is music that the everyday man women and child can enjoy. Its apart of a culture that rose from the Celtic country side, old blues and jazz and moved into the hills and backyards of everyday America. We jam in parking lots on weekends, our friends are seated in lawn cheers not stadium seating, kids clap and run around and we play our instruments to learn and to just have fun with old friends and maybe make a few new ones.

The top billing Bluegrass musicians have always been true to their roots, they play with their hearts and they are not out to scalp you on tickets prices for the all mighty dollar. That's mainstream. To me and my opinion only, The big name Bluegrass musicians work to keep their ticket prices down so the everyday fan can come and enjoy music. And these folks are accessible to us at festivals, fairs, concerts, cruises and on this very web site. They just take the time to just say hi. Mainstream talent becomes so commercial its almost impossible to remember where "they really came from or where they have been"
Just my opinion
A9cp

[elenbrandt]

I will be 51 on April 25th -- cards, letters, money, dark chocolate, etc. would be appreciated...

That formality aside....I must confess that I don't listen to too much bluegrass -- I dearly love Pat Metheny and Dawg-type music (including all of Darol Anger's, Mike Marshall, et al.) Thile's new solo efforts are magnificent and complex. (Odd how what I play has little to do with what I like to hear...)

Now what was the question? Oh yes.... I think every genre has it's time and place and will survive and wax and wane with the generations. If it is good -- it will last on some level. Insipid music (which I won't define for you) will simply fall by the wayside. I wouldn't worry so much about making sure that other people love what you love (i.e. your fickle kids who will hate it just to spite you.) It is important that it feeds YOUR soul -- to hell with all others.

33 here.. sigh http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

I love traditional bluegrass , Dawg music, ole time appalacian string music.

45 (St Patty's day baby)....love all types of acoustic music. Started with the New Acoustic "movement" and early Telluride festivals....sleeping & camping down by the stream and old Winfield days of great Bluegrass festivals. i won't talk about the time i was tackled running on the backside of the football field behind the grandstand as a 20 year old. Not good....love all Dawg music, Old Sea tunes, Irish & Scottish melodies...in general i dig acoustic music...old pre-war Martin's on the back porch in the spring & summer with that chop in the background...it is great to hear from the younger musicians out there. My goal as a kid growing up was simple "just keep pick'in" thru-out my days.....so far so good.

[ShaneJ]

I'm 37, and I like just about any kind of acoustic music. #I enjoy some of the commercial country too, if it's rooted in bluegrass, western swing or blues. #If it's rooted in disco or who knows what, you can have it. #Unfortunately for me, I only started listening to bluegrass a year or two ago. #Chris Thile got me interested in the mandolin, and then I began searching for any kind of mando music I could find. #I listened past some of the nasal-toned singers of the older bluegrass and discovered some great music. #I always listened to the singer first. #Growing up, I played guitar but mostly focused on singing and writing songs. #Once I actually became seriously interested in playing an instrument for a reason other than vocal accompaniment, I suddenly developed a whole new appreciation for bluegrass, Celtic, jazz, etc..... #Tonight on the way home from baseball practice, my 6 yr old son and I were listening to a new Celtic CD (Leahy). #Zach said, "Those Irish people play good, don't they?" #

This morning, I spent an hour at the local Public Radio Station which is having its annual fund drive. We were doing the "telethon" thing during the breaks, and were discussing one of the radio programs that focuses on children playing classical music. The DJ said that her daughter (middle school aged) has developed a big love for acoustic and Celtic music also. I don't think good music will ever die out. Disco is definitely dead though! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[wannabethile]

hey, im only 17 here. ive been playing mando for a year and a half now. i love it, and i actually wanna go pro on it. i am a little scared that it might be dying a little bit and I cant find hardly anyone here in southern california thats into it like i am. but i will keep playing and supporting the music as long as im alive!!

[Michael Lewis]

As stated previously, attend the festivals and jam with the folks you find. You will make new friends and learn new tunes. If you want the music to continue you should contribute your efforts, so get in there and pick! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[August Watters]

Hey Mando Kid --

Welcome to the realities of the acoustic music world -- it's full of enthusiasts who feel strongly about it, and look to each other for support because we're all surrounded by people who don't care and might think we're a little bit wacky. But I think most people don't listen deeply, and are not sensitive to the deep level of communication music can convey -- most folks experience music on the level of consumers only, and their musical taste is no more profound than which brand of toothpaste they use. But for those who are prepared to get more involved, music has immense power to capture all the shades of human emotion much more accurately than words can.

Mandolin music dying? Hogwash, I say -- there's never been more of it, certainly not in the last 70 years or so. Surround yourself with people who care about music, learn to carry on the traditions, spend your youthful energies listening, learning and developing your craft -- and the "pro" part of it will happen. The important thing is to surround yourself with like-minded people.

August Watters (43)
http://www.galleryofstrings.com

[Billy Mack]

Amen brother - I am 46, so have heard a few years worth of pop music. I think Bluegrass and traditional music has never been stronger. Growing up around friends that liked rock, pop, country, etc., I stumbled across BG in my early teens by accident. My buddy invited me over to hear some Doc, Tony Rice, Skaggs, etc. Soon after we spent our weekends learning how to pick. Sure I had the old standby 8 tracks of rock music, but my BG collection started to grow. And it has never left me.

I have found there to always be plenty of BG lovin folks around if you just keep your eyes and ears open. It may not be on the big billboard downtown, but in the backrooms, backyards, and backwoods of America. That is what makes it special. I have turned on many friends who only knew about "That Beverly Hillbillies Song", and now they go to festivals with me. It is what you make it.

Keep Pickin

[mando bandage]

47 here, gray beard and all. #But I feel like I'm 18 again whenever I pick up the mandolin. #Guess it's my mid-life crisis: #cheaper than a Ferrari (at least everything but the Loars), and less complicated than a mistress (though every bit as jealous as my wife will attest).

I'm trying to do my part to indoctrinate, strike that, educate America's youth. #We started by taking our 9 year old son to Telluride last year. #Fun to watch his reaction. #Day one absolutely freaked him out. #As many people in one place as live in our entire town, and when you think about what a moving crowd looks like at his eye level, who can blame him? #By the middle of day two he was completely comfortable and ready to navigate the crowd on his own if we had let him. #The Chris Thile/Mike Marshall workshop was as deep a baptism in the mandolin as one could ask for. #

Went the other extreme (sizewise) with him at a small venue Hot Tuna w/Barry Mitterhof concert last month and found out he wants to play bass like Jack (he's been playing air bass ever since, eyebrows and all). #The payoff is that he can hear a mandolin in a deep mix better than I can, and sometimes, when he can't fall asleep, he asks me to play the mandolin in the next room. (Awwww....)

I've also taken my mando to a couple of scout campouts with him, more motivated by my separation anxiety from the instrument than anything else. #I'll find an out of the way place to amuse myself during unplanned time, and invariably find myself surrounded by a crowd of small faces, giving an introductory lesson to the more intrepid in the bunch. #

I hope that my son and some of his buddies learn, as I have (rather belatedly, been playing mando for 2 1/2 years after a 20 year plus hiatus from the piano/trombone/bass guitar days of my misspent youth) that playing music is daily nourishment for the soul, and that, as Mandojohnny said, is a flame kept alive with those of us with day jobs, who play daily because we feel a void in our lives if we don't. #

R

[mando bandage]

. #i mean, its Ohio, there has to be some good grass around...right?


Check out the following:

http://newgrass.freeservers.com/countdown/oh.htm

R

[Peter Hackman]

I will be 60 in August. I've played the guitar since 1958
and the mandolin since 66. I was heavily into BG in the
late 60s, and spent two months in the US in the summer
of '69 to watch the festivals. My main inspiration
was John Duffey (who did some work on my instrument)
and I dug the Country Gentlemen for their versatility,
eclecticism,
and lack of dogmatism; but I also dug the electric mandolin
of Tiny Moore in the Bob Wills band.

So even then I didn't care much about labels.
Spontaneity, intimacy, informal interaction was
what counted and we get a lot of that in today's
acoustic music, new or old.

There was much talk in the '60s about bluegrass dying and
lots and lots of discussion on the supposed boundaries
of the form; were the Osbornes really a BG
band, etc. What a silly discussion.

Anyway BG wasn't dying, it was just going into a healthy
state of confusion. The cabin home on the hill is gone,
something else, and more important, remains.

Today I still play the guitar and mandolin; whatever fits my
instruments, technique, and ears,
comes together on these instruments. I would play the guitar differently
if it weren't for BG; and the mandolin not at
all. But I don't play bluegrass.

Recently I sold some stock and
decided to buy something I've never had, a truly high-end mandolin, comparable in quality
to my guitars (I own, i.a., several Grevens and a Collings SJ).
I picked a Collings MF5 (?). It arrived two days ago.
If there are people making mandolins like that today
there is a future for our instrument!

[Darren]

jpsy422,

You mentioned that you were from Columbus, Ohio. I was just there last month for the Yonder Mountain String Band concert at the Newport. And I'll tell you what, the place was packed to the brim and I have never seen a crowd so excited. The band too noticed it and commented several times throughout the show how amazed they were with the response. That just shows you that there are some rabid bluegrass fans in your area. You just need to go out there aand find them.

[Nik-chick]

I'm just about 22 and 3/4. I just had to give my age like a little kid who does the "This many" and holds up a bent finger for and a half. (Ofcourse, if I could hold up 22 and 3/4s fingers I'd be really deformed...but that would be a major advantage as a picker.)

Seriously, tho. Three things I know for sure about bluegrass:

We are not hillbilies.
We are not mainstream.
We are not going down w/out a fight.

In a nutshell, bluegrass is not mainstream music. It was never theirs to start with. It's ours (refurring to those of us who like it). It's like ethnic musics (and technically it sorta is, since it has such a basis in Appalachian and Ozark Mountain music amoung other things). It's for the people it's for. If the mainstream catches on because some mainstream group has their roots in it, like Nickel Creek (notice I said roots in bluegrass not that they do bluegrass), or Ricky Skaggs for my age group (who really does do bluegrass, tho he also did "Honey Won't You Open that Door" and other stuff) and brings in some mainstream listeners, cool. But that's not who or what it's about.

[Keith Newell]

Mando Bandage I have to agree, when I pick up the mando I feel 18 again also but then on the drive home from the jam I feel my real age...46...I used to be able to stay up till 1 or 2 AM then go home for three hours sleep and work a 10 hr day the next morning. What the heck happened?!? Its 11 pm and I'm whipped.
As far as bluegrass and Celtic music around my part of the country (Portland Oregon) Im surprised at all the venues that feature the music. We have a great radio station out here that features Bluegrass from 9 to noon on saturdays, its KBOO radio. You can catch it live on the web.
This last Saturday the guest that played a bunch of stuff live was Greg Clarke. If you havent heard Greg before you are missing something!
Keith Newell

http://www.newellmandolins.com

[bluegrassjack2]

I'm chiming in at 68. Been listening to BG all my life and attended many BG festivals in Indiana, especially the Beanblossem one. Even was there before the ole barn burned down. A problem I see now with BG is that it is changing a lot. It seems to be going like the country music did. Country isnt country anymore or at least like it used to be. I see BG changing like that too. Moving away from the traditional to something else, not sure how to name it. I now live in SC and see that around 6 festivals places have closed since last season in and around SC. I was thinking I saw an increas in the BG support but am now worried that it may be loosing steam. Seems like most people I talk to really like the music but they never attend the festivals and support it in anyway. I guess a lot of it is just talk. I started playing an instrument (guitar) in late life like around 58 yrs old. I now am learning the mandolin. Not good at either but sure have fun trying. We surely need to encourage our younger folks to carry on the tradition. I guess thats about all.
Thanks for listening.

[Brain]

Keith

I never miss the KBOO Saturday show and I have to agree with you about Greg Clarke ... he's incredible. I was lucky enough to take a few lessons with him and I had to drag my jaw home after each session. He plays the juiciest stuff and is easily one of my favorite mandolin players of all time. His music just kills me. He's also a really nice guy and a good person. He plays around Portland quite a bit. Check him out!

[Nolan]

I'm 30.... been liking bluegrass since I was about 25.

By the way, check out http://www.openroadbluegrass.com/,
those guys are pretty young.... and they play staight bluegrass.

[Moose]

Well I wasn't gonna' post on this one, but thanks to "bluegrass jack" - who's brave enough to admit he's got 4(!) years on me, I'll "fess up" - Started playing guitar & mando in my teens' - played professionally(local/regional/road warrior) for 30+ years - got out(?#) of it few years ago - went back to school for a BA degree & have been a librarian since 1985. I miss the "good times" - and the good music/comraderie among good pickers - AND, the the "roar of the crowd" - However I only "regress" to these things in periods of alcoholic euphoria....(!?#) - I don't remember any "bad" times" - I think there were a few...? - hee... hee. - Enjoy the CAFE. You folks enjoy your music. "You don' get OLD and quit MUSIC..., you QUIT MUSIC and get OLD"(source: forgotten - nevertheless, a TRUE observation) - EL MOOSO. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[doanepoole]

I live near what many term part of "Bluegrass country", and young kids in remote and not-so-remote parts of WV still recieve instruction from their "elders" about traditional bluegrass and old time music, and some of them grow up to carry on the torch...I actually have noticed youth seem to be more and more interested in going back even further to their old-time roots than bluegrass, but I don't have a million kids I'm in contact with, you know.

But I also live near metropolitan MD/VA/DC, where it seems youth interest in playing trasitional music is rare at best...though there is certainly interest in my generation and above. But in this area, the fusion of bluegrass and pop music as represented by bands like Nickel Creek is certainly alive in the youth...that is at least encouraging that acoustic music will live on, even if its not in the traditional package so many of us love so well.

I suppose its impossible to freeze traiditonal bluegrass in time forever. Outside influences have pushed bluegrass in many different directions since the 60s and probably before, and its popularity among youth has been an ebb-and-flow, I think.

Truth is, I think as bluegrass has branched out, the term "bluegrass" has become antiquated (the countless arguments on this board as to "What is bluegrass?" attest to this) and meaningful much more to my generation and above than to the youth, who have had less time to put their musical preferences in a labeled box.

Movements in music are often by and for the youth...I'm just happy to see that their remains an interest in acoustic melodic music.