Lackluster Jam!

[doublestop]

Geez, we had a jam the other night that left a bad taste in my mouth. I thought it was just me, but once we broke up at the end of the night everyone starting talking amongst themselves and general consensus was it stunk. No one can seem to put their finger on it. We had about 10 people:
1 upright bass
3 guitars
4 mandolins
1 fiddle

Does their ever reach a point when there are too many participants. It is not like their were bad musicians involved either. Nor was it a matter of bad rhythm etc. It just wasn't pleasant to listen to and I felt like I was playing in more of a mechanical nature rather than listening. Perhaps it was the way we had the circle set up. We did have all the guitars lumped together and I was sitting next to another mandolin player. Anyone else ever have a similar experience. Any help would be appreciated.

[Ken Sager]

Does their ever reach a point when there are too many participants. #

Yes, absolutely.



It just wasn't pleasant to listen to and I felt like I was playing in more of a mechanical nature rather than listening. # Perhaps it was the way we had the circle set up. #


Could be, but sometimes 10 is just too many.



We did have all the guitars lumped together and I was sitting next to another mandolin player. #Anyone else ever have a similar experience. #Any help would be appreciated.

This happens every Wednesday night around here. Too many folks, too many lurkers who hang out just behind the circle playing along (or trying to play along, or improvising, or whatever...). It's not uncommon to have 12-15 folks at a local jam (more mandos than anything else) and if you're there to learn anything or to show off your new licks you're wasting your time.

I only go for the pizza and to chat with a few friends I've made there. Most of the time I leave with a headache and a vow on my lips never to return.

My only advice is to try one of two things:
1) Stand up and change your place in the circle every now and then.
2) Step out of the circle when the jam crossed a line. Sometimes silence is the best then you can contribute to a circle.

I always vow never to return, yet I go a couple times a month... #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Best,
Ken

[bnjrpkr]

good grief man,the problem is obvious.NO B@&!0s.I do think jams can get too big,especially if the guitars are not all booming and chucking at the same time,and you got everybody trying to play fills at the same time.::;):

[Coy Wylie]

Been there done that. When it gets too bad I do what Ken suggested. I get up and set out for a song or two and come back to sit in a different location. I've found it also helps to sit next to the better musicians because at least you can be "tight" with them. Too big a circle and too many toe-tappers can make it hard to hear each other. Too many guitars, espeically just strummers and especially when they don't know the songs well can get everyone off pace. Too many guitars usually results in less fast Bluegrass tunes and more slow Old Time songs in my experience.

[John Flynn]

It depends on your expectations, IMHO. I look at jams as an opportunity to play music and have fun with other people, kind of like a party, only the conversation is musical instead of verbal. To me, my only thing that makes a jam "bad" is when people are acting like jerks. Thankfully that hasn't happened too often. But I don't come to jams with hard expectations that we will produce great music. If we do, great, but I am not going to get bummed if we don't. I strive to make great music with the two bands I am in.

I have been in jams of all sizes from two people to 20 people and everything in between. I have had all sized groups be good and bad socially and I have all sized groups make great music and not-so-good music. I think it has more to do with the people who show up and how much they want to cooperate musically. I do believe that with a larger group, it helps to have some ground rules and to have a jam leader who factilitates the group and enforces the rules in a friendly way.


less fast Bluegrass tunes and more slow Old Time songs in my experience - Willard
You should try playing old time in the Midwest. We play many tunes at blazing speed. Some of the bluegrass guys who join our jams have a hard time keeping up, especially when we keep going for a several minutes.

[GVD]

I agree with Mando Johnny. It's not so much how many people are in the jam but how they interact with each other. Having a a good jam leader is probably the single most important factor in whether the jam succeeds or not.

GVD

[Joe F]

I regularly attend a led beginner's BG jam that often has 15-20 people at it. #The leader does a great job keeping things organized, calling out chords, etc., but with a wide range of abilities (especially in keeping proper time), it sometimes can be chaotic. #I approach it as an opportunity to work on my chop and develop breaks, as well as the overall experience of playing with other people.

I also go to an intermediate level jam, which has fewer people and generally better players. #Those are a lot of fun, and I find them challenging in that the playing speeds are usually at the upper end of my ability.

Another way to look at it is that the beginner's jam is for exercise and experience, and the intermediate jam is for making music and growing. #Both are enjoyable, but for different reasons.

(We also have a local advanced BG jam every week, but I haven't mustered the courage to try that one yet.)

[mando bandage]

The muse is fickle. Sometimes she shows up, sometimes she doesn't. Keep inviting her. It's like my annual golf game: no matter how bad it is, there's always one shot that gets me out for my one game next year.

R

[doanepoole]

My favorite jams are where there are no more than 2 of any single instrument playing at once. Any more than that and things can get cluttered with folks stepping on eachothers musical toes, especially as it pertains to guitar players in my experience. Different guitar players have different styles on rythm, and I find they often clash. Conflicting ryhtmic accents can really screw with the timing and flow of the music.

The biggest problem I've found however is a lack of tunes in common. People start calling tunes that noone else knows the chord changes or basic melody, and this slows down the energy of the jam because everybody wants to play tunes that they know well, but everybody doesn't know the same tunes, so you can get some ryhthm crashes or lack of enthusiasm. Those are the jams I go away from feeling sapped the most.

[Coy Wylie]

MandoJohnny,

Oops, sorry no offense meant toward Old Time. It just seems in a jam I frequent that just the time the music gets exciting, some old feller will start singing a "chick-boom" Jimmie Rodgers number that is totally out of pace with what others are playing. What do you do? Be polite. Grin. Strum along. Done? Good. Now, let's play Gold Rush...

[doanepoole]

You could always get a beer, soda, take a whizz, or otherwise step out of the circle in those occassions. Especially in the larger jams, I don't think anyone usually minds when a picker takes a break on a given tune.

[harwilli55]

From a novices viewpoint, attending a jam is a place to begin to really hear and experience the rythyms and tempo that the more advanced players perform effortlessly. Watching, hearing, and attempting to emulate that while sounding awful some of the time, when you finally get it...the WOW factor is awesome.

I am grateful and thankful to have the opportunity to sit in the same room as many of these hard working skilled musicians and rather than feeling as much of the novice that I am, I feel accepted.

Any of those master musicians could absolutely go off on their own and make Great music all of the time. I am humbly aware that the oppportunity they give to play with them is to be valued highly.

Harlan

[jom]

Mando Johnny and GVD, Having a good jam leader (or leaders) makes all the difference in the world, as does good all-around jam etiquette. Otherwise it can become an amorphous nightmare. If things get too mechanical and dull, its time to try a few new things eh?

[Tom C]

That can happen when nobody listens to the others. I attended the Hudson Valley Bluegrass assoc meeting a couple of weeks ago. They had at least 20 people pickin together and they really sounded like a big tight bluegrass band. They were all advanced pickers but the balance was real nice and people would play harmony to each other which is great when you have a bunch of mando players.
In another room was a slow/medium jam. About 40people all together.

[dasspunk]

Taking a jam too seriously is an excellent way to ruin it... Jams are what they are. It's a great place to experiment, learn stuff and meet folks. I find that folks who complain about them are usually looking for something more out of them than they can offer. Maybe you should try getting together with one or two pickers you've met there for a more focused jam...

[keymandoguy]

no jams are perfect 100% Last week we had a mandolinist had a $6000 Gibson show up played just fine alone but he was allways out of sync whith the rest of us speeded up the tempo or hesitated etc etc. I just quit playing when his leads came up but the rest makes it worthwhile http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[Tom C]

Why should you stop playing the chords when he's taking his break? Just hold the tempo. That's what the person needs. Obviously people need practice playing (breaks) with others and a jam session is the best place. You are not helping by trying to follow a tempo that is moving all over the place.

[Ken Berner]

Great discussion, folks. I've found myself in a bluegrass jam where I was in a little bit over my head, so I stayed in the background and either worked on the melody or just chopped my way through the songs I didn't know. I feel that as long as you don't distract the "inner circle" with your attempt to learn, you'll be all right. The best feeling in the world is when you become confident enough to stay close enough to be heard and they let you in!!!

[AmosMoses]

Smaller jams are great. Our weekly bluegrass jam has turned to 20-25 people mostly guitar with about 6 ppl that actually play bluegrass and the rest wail country tunes. It's hectic sometimes but I still go every week and try to get better.

[jbrwky]

This is great. You've hit all the reasons why people don't go to jams.


http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[John Flynn]

BTW, there are a lot of reasons to hate jams, but even more to like them. Next to performances, I have had my best times in music at jams. If you don't like the jams in your area, start your own! You don't have to be anybody special or be at any level of musical development to host a jam. If you have access to a living room, a garage or any other suitable space and you know a few other musicians from the "bad jams" who you like to play with, set it up! If you make it a regular thing, perhaps each person could host it on a rotating basis or you could start providing refreshments and have everyone chip in five bucks, or whatever. There is no excuse for not having good jams to go to if that is what you want.

[duuuude]

... If you don't like the jams in your area, start your own! You don't have to be anybody special or be at any level of musical development to host a jam...
Yep, that's exactly what I did after becoming frustrated with some of the local bluegrass assn jams, started my own beginners jam and was suprised at the number of people that felt just like I did. Now we have a small group of folks at about the same level working on tunes we all know and actually seeing some improvement from week to week. So if what's available ain't gettin' it for ya, do it yerself!
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[straight-a]

Sometimes it just isn't a good night. No fault of anyone, just one of those things.

[John Flynn]

Sometimes it just isn't a good night. #No fault of anyone, just one of those things.
I tried to tell her that, but she left me anyway...Hold on, this is the mandolin discussion! Never mind... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif