View Full Version : Of Scrolls and Tone
Oh the smell....
Oh the feel...
Oh the Thwak and Woof...
OH THE #T O N E !
Wow, how things can change in just 48 hours. Couple days ago I was a mostly happy Eastman owner (twice over), today they're gone and I am now the proud owner of brand new Collings MT #979 (all thanks to Dennis at The Mandolin Store... more on him later).
You all know i've been a big proponent of the Eastmans and i'll continue to be. In my opinion they are still an amazing value for the dollar and i'll continue to recommend them to anyone looking for a great deal. Their build quality and playability is fantastic and they are gorgeous
instruments. I am quite saddened to let both of my beautiful scrolls go. I get attached to my instruments and the Eastmans have been my constant companions and served me well.
The reasons for my sudden change of heart are many. The main one, the big bottom line is: TONE. Also factoring into the picture is scroll lust.
Tone. As good as both my Eastmans sounded, in the end, neither had "The Tone" that my heart was after. I loved looking at them. I loved playing them. I loved their workmanship and especially loved those scrolls. I've long had a lust affair with the F style appointments. I just really dig that look. But, i'm afraid to a certain extent i allowed my scroll lust to overshadow my true desire, which is for a particular TONE. Sometimes it's difficult to be 100% honest with yourself... and sometimes you only think you know what you want.
Again, i must say that the Eastmans come very close to completely tripping my trigger. If either of mine had a bit more depth, a bit more complexity, and more woof/thwak/focus on the low end, they would be a killer package, hands down, and would stand up against most anything. I believe they'll continue to push that envelope unti they nail it. I'll be buying one again in the future as a good 2nd.
More on the MT later... and pics, of course! Right now i can't keep my hands off it!
Wait 'til it breaks in.
Congratulations
bradeinhorn
Nov-16-2005, 6:31pm
Talk about tone with the MT.
I just bought a slightly younger brother to your MT yesterday at Mandolin Brothers - 985. It is a blonde one. So sweet. I can't stop playing it either.
Does anyone think I'm crazy when I say this model stands up against many, 2 and 3 times it cost and it surpasses many of them.
B
CowboyMando
Nov-16-2005, 7:22pm
I was playing my MT this summer, and Ronnie McCoury stopped, leaned over and said "what is that?" #They're so damn loud and powerful, I can't wait until it's old!
Cool deal Zeek! Can't wait to hear it at Wintergrass, you gonna be there?
I half hate to sit down here and gush about my new mando like you knew i'd do. But guess what? I'm gonna anyway! I know it takes some time to truly get to know a new mando, but my first impressions of this girl are so strong, i have to share them with my fellow mando-centric, MAS suffering, tone-crazed compadres.
Smell. My Rigel had a particular laquer smell that i loved greeting me every time i opened the case. The Eastmans had a different but similar smell. The MT has a spicy wood smell that is glorious. I can smell it right now on my hands....
Playing. The MT has a mildly radiused neck compared to the Rigel and i really like it already. The Eastmans were flat and i did like that feel also. The radius feels very homey. It also has the big frets (like the Rigel), which i have to get used to now again as the Eastmans had the vintage frets. The big ones feel good, tho, no doubt about it.
Response. Wow. Double Wow. Even with the stock J74s (i use J75s) i can spank this baby hard and she just keeps giving it out (sheesh... don't mean that to sound so... nasty http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif) From the lightest touch to the deepest pounding and every increment in between, it's right there with you the whole way. It also responds differently to every different pick i use on it. From my standard Wegens to a Dawg to a Mondo... they all produce some subtely different character. Bloody amazing.
Resonance. In my reading of past MT posts someone mentioned how the MT literally vibrates in your hands and against your body. It is true. Not only can you hear every note, you feel it as well. Wow.
Tone. I could honestly fill a couple pages about this one alone but i'll try to stifle myself. My favorite words to describe it... Woody, Warm, Woofy, Clear, Resonant, Punchy with a thick Thwack and Thunk on every note. Deep lows, glassy highs, good presence in the mids, all the way up the neck. No dead spots, no hot spots. Nice woofy chop with some real presence. All this on J74s! Again, i could go on... i'll spare you.
Opening up. I swear if this never opened up it'd still knock me over. Can't wait to hear it as it does open up... and it WILL.
I just keep saying... "Oh My Gosh... Oh My Gosh..." over and over like this is a dream. I own a freakin Collings... Oh My Gosh.
One last Wow.
Zeek
One last shot here and then i'll try to shut up and play for a while.
This whole deal was only possible thru the unbelievable customer service of Dennis Vance at The Mandolin Store in Washington Court House, OH. I sent Dennis an email one day, more as a lark than serious, and before i knew it, a new MT is on it's way to my door!
Here's a quote from Dennis' site:
"At the Mandolin Store our mission is to create customers for life. #We are committed to providing excellence in customer service. #We simply want our customers to be our raving fans."
Let me tell you that Dennis takes this serious and i guarantee after one phone call to this man you'll be a raving fan. I was a "lifer" after my very first deal with Dennis. Incredible caring service.
Sorry to gush so much... but i'm telling you, Dennis deserves it and i want to make sure he gets every ounce of thanks and kudos he has coming. There's just nobody else like him.
(No, honestly... he doesn't pay me to do this!)
357mag
Nov-16-2005, 7:45pm
Well good on ya Zeek! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Congrats! Why dont you treat us to those last two numbers you posted playing the Eastman. That way we can all enjoy the new one too.
mandopete
Nov-16-2005, 9:42pm
Yeah, but can you please tell us how you really feel?
Congratulations!
Heh... yeah well, dang it... i'm always at a loss for words http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
357... i'm gonna do that very thing after i get a little better acquainted with this here new box.
No Wintergrass for me, Nolan... i wish!
Douglas McMullin
Nov-16-2005, 10:27pm
Hey I know how you feel. I sold my F and went to an MT (#647)because it had the tone I really wanted. Actually what I really really wanted was a Phoenix Bluegrass, but I could not justify the cost being a part time mando player. I could not be happier with my MT and to be honest I think I now have A lust. I really love the simplicity and feel.
Milan Christi
Nov-17-2005, 12:26am
Hahahahaha!! Way to go, Zeek! I've been vicariously enjoying the MAS experience through your exploits. I'm really anxious to hear your recordings - good on ya, man! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Stephen Perry
Nov-17-2005, 6:20am
I've been running a few Eastman mandolins through my torture chamber (a vibrating system). Could be that the break in thing will really put some Eastmans into a great place. They really like the vibrator very much, even for a hour.
Chip Booth
Nov-17-2005, 11:13am
A quick check with The Mandolin Store showed an Eastman 615 at $1239.00 and a used MT at $1749.00, and a new MT at Greg Boyd's for $1845.00. #At Gianna the Eastmans range from $1240.00 to $1850.00. #Granted you get scrolls, gloss, inlay, and maybe even varnish with the Eastmans but I think Zeeks posts) speaks for itself. #You don't necessarily get tone, but you do get to pay 2/3 of the price. #
Now I don't mean to bash Eastman. As long as a mandolin is made well and is playable it can be a great starter or backup instrument. #And if it looks good and controls your scroll envy that's great. But I think Zeek's experience here could be a good lesson to all those folks that seem to constantly call Eastman the next great thing, and compare them sound-wise to the big boys. #I don't own a Collings or particulary lust after one. #I have played several Collings and thought they were consistantly nice, and about what I expected in their price range. #I have played several Eastmans and without exception there was no tone in sight. #I have no doubt that they can make a fine mandolin and there are probably some really good sounding ones out there, but in my experience that is not the norm. #
I'm also not trying to be a mando snob. #I don't own a stable of $25,000.00 mandolins. #But I can say that the best 2 mandolins I have ever played were a new Varnished Fern at around $10K and a Gilchrest for about $25K (and I cannot afford either one). #It takes some real work to make a great mandolin, and that translates into time and money. #Even with less expensive labor you can't make a consistantly superior sounding product with all the bells, whistles, and scrolls for less than an A style with no frills. #It can't be done, and I would like to see more people accept this and get themselves great sounding instruments from the begining rather than spend nearly as much, or maybe more, on one or more starter mandolins.
Rant off.
Chip
250sc
Nov-17-2005, 11:31am
I have one more word to say about the MT.
Tonegard!
You won't regret it.
Even with less expensive labor you can't make a consistantly superior sounding product with all the bells, whistles, and scrolls for less than an A style with no frills. #It can't be done, and I would like to see more people accept this and get themselves great sounding instruments from the begining rather than spend nearly as much, or maybe more, on one or more starter mandolins.
True enough but unfortunately most of bite on the got to have an F lure only to realize later that tone trumps all.
They really like the vibrator very much, even for a hour.
No comment.
GVD
Eric F.
Nov-17-2005, 12:28pm
Congrats, Zeek. A blonde to boot, huh? Put that mando down and post some pictures!
jmpullen
Nov-17-2005, 12:46pm
Zeek, wait till you get a Gibson and get used to
that 'Gibson Sound".
Can't knock success, ie. "Gibson sound". I like both apples and oranges too!
I agree with 250sc, apples and oranges. #I was fortunate enough to have aquired both a MT2 and an F-9. #They are two different animals for sure. #
For one thing, the tone bars are placed almost exactly opposite in them both. #On one I can feel the bass tone bar with my pinky through the f hole and not on the other. #Same is true of the treble tone bar but vice versa. #Bill Collings is doing his own thing I'd say.
The MT (and my previous Rigel A Natural) really do show the general wisdom that for the same money an A model will buy you much more tone than an F. The Fs are labor intensive, period.
Tonegard... i had one of these on a previous mando and thot it was ok. I've thot about getting another, but i've pretty much trained myself to play with the back up off my body (which is no small feat when you have a paunch like mine http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif) It does affect the tone for sure.
Eric, my MT is not a blonde... that was... uhhh... Brad. Mine is the trad Collings colors. No stunning stripes, pretty plain Jane, and that's fine with me.
The "Gibson Sound"... ah yes... i'm familiar with the Gibson sound and love it. I kind of roughly classify mando tones into 2 categories... a Gibson type tone or a Gil type tone (realizing how broad and varied that is). I guess to my ear the Collings lean more towards the "Gil sound" (no, i'm not saying my MT sounds just like a Gil). The difference in those 2 lies mainly in the presence or peaks of certain mids. The Gibson mids are on the lower end, the Gil mids higher. Different tones for sure... both wonderful. I'm anxious now to play my MT along side my friend's F9 that i've long lusted after. That'll be interesting.
So, I'm not the only one who sticks his pinky in the F-holes to feel the tone bars...
Someone had mentioned the tailpiece being a PITA for string changes... and they are right about that. Putting the new strings ON is not the problem... it's taking the old ones OFF. I've found the quickest way is to just cut the ends off the old ones so they'll pull right thru the tailpiece. Otherwise it's a battle.
Douglas McMullin
Nov-17-2005, 7:11pm
I like the MT tailpiece. Like you said I just cut the strings rather than pull the rough ends through. I dont have any issues stringing and its a nice simple unit that matches the mando pretty well.
I agree... i sure do like it otherwise. It's no biggy cutting the strings off and putting the new one's on is a breeze.
bradeinhorn
Nov-17-2005, 11:19pm
agreed. i had a little trouble at first re-stringing. ironic, as that cool tailpiece was a major attraction. then i realized it was easyily done by loosening and cutting towards the bridge....
mine is the blonde. and a silky one at that. i'll try to get some pics when i get a sufficiently good camera.
B
I've never had any problems with the tailpiece or changing strings but I've worked as an instrument repairman and have changed thousands of strings.
Try an autoharp sometime.
Jim Hilburn
Nov-18-2005, 10:52am
Nolan, how old was the MT-2 with the reversed tonebars? Was it an early one?
Word of warning to all. Be very careful when examining with your pinky. A slight twist of the finger can split a top.
sunburst
Nov-18-2005, 10:59am
Thanks to "Arthur" (Arthur Ritis), I'm down to one pinky that will fit through most f-holes, and the other pinky gets tighter all the time. My days of examining tone bars may, one day, be over. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
earthsave
Nov-18-2005, 11:01am
Where are those pictures?
Frank Russell
Nov-18-2005, 11:10am
Congrats, Zeek. I still miss the MT that I sold while "trading up." I think the MT's may be the ultimate value in their price list. The one I had played and sounded every bit as good as the MF I had, which was the pick of the litter where I bought it. I am sure I will own one again, they are just too tempting. Enjoy it. Frank
Word of warning to all. Be very careful when examining with your pinky. A slight twist of the finger can split a top.
YOUCH!! What about those "in place", "at tension" bridge adjustments, then?? (lateral adjustments, not up/down). I have done that... NOT on the MT yet... guess i won't!
Where are those pictures?
You mean my pics, earthsave? I did post one over in the pics forum. Small and blurry and terrible. I'm always ragging on mando web sites for using terrible, low rez, dark, grainy pics to show their beatiful mandos... and then i do it myself! #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Thanks, Frank! You better start shopping around for your next MT... they're awfully affordable!
I adjusted the bridge on mine using a flathead screwdriver between the upper and lower parts of the bridge to take presure off of the thumb screws then turned them up or down with no problems. It didn't mar the brige either. No problems.
Anyone know what the radius is on an MT? It's not as deep as my Rigel was, which was 9.75"- 15.5 (compound). I'd guess maybe 10" or 11". Specs on their site doesn't say.
Another post said, "4.9" at the nut, 8.9" at the 12th" but i don't think that can possibly be right?
Ok... here's a quick tune i hacked out on the new MT. This is with a new set of J75s, only about an hour old, and a Tortis mondo pick.
MT Sound Sample (http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=157208) (First tune on the page)
flairbzzt
Nov-18-2005, 4:42pm
Stop beating around the bush and tell us how you really feel.... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Stop beating around the bush and tell us how you really feel.... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Yeah... yeah... don't you just hate gushy, slobbering guys with new toys? Sheesh... #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
flairbzzt
Nov-18-2005, 5:20pm
So Dennis is gonna have a used 815 blonde for sale .....should be easy to get if it's like most used blondes...................
My 815 was not blonde, Richard. Standard SB.
Took the MT to its first practice tonight. Needless to say, it blew me away. What a chop! What presence and responsivness... man. I could go on and on... but i'll shut up now. Thanks for sharing the ride with me.
Milan Christi
Nov-19-2005, 3:30pm
Awesome tone, Zeek!! It sounds like the real deal to me.
I just checked out the new cuts on your web page. You've got me inspired to try that "Billy in the Lowground" tune. It sounds great! And you were really smokin' on 'Rawhide.' Keep 'em comin'!http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Douglas McMullin
Nov-19-2005, 4:40pm
I agree that new sound clip really showcases the MT sound well. Great job.
Thanks, fellers. Billy in the Lowground" is a fun little tune, yep. I play it about every time i pick up the mando.
Hey Jim... Mine is #82... made in 2001.
Jim Hilburn
Nov-20-2005, 9:37am
I think that if you check out any of the later Collings, particularly about the time they introduced the F models, you'll find the tonebars to be arranged in the traditional manner. The early runs were reversed.
Cool,thanks for the info Jim. #Makes sense to me, my Collings has a fatter sounding E and A string than my Gibson and the bass end of things is a little more tame. #
Those early MT-2's might be good for left handed folks to string up backwards?