Lefties

[Cary Fagan]

As I try to increase my speed lately, I've thought more about the difficulties of a left-handed player. I don't play a left-handed instrument. Anyone have similar experience? Has anyone used exercises to strengthen their right hand? Has anyone switched from a regular to a left-handed instrument? Anyone know of any well-known lefty players?

[Walter Newton]

I'm a righty, but I'd say no classical piano, violin, flute, harp etc... player plays a "left handed instrument" either. IMO there are plenty of challenges for both the right and left hand for all of us regardless of "handedness".

[Joe F]

This topic was discussed a while back. #There have been a few people who made the switch to left-handed instruments and felt that in the long run it was an improvement. #However, I think the majority of lefties play right-handed instruments without any problems.

I am very strongly left-handed -- I do everything left handed EXCEPT mandolin playing. #For years, I felt that my weak chop and tremolo was due to my handedness, but as I've become a regular at some local jams (and thus playing and practicing a lot more than I used to), they seem to be improving slowly.

I've found that the best way to improve speed is lots of practice (It always seems to come back to that, doesn't it?).

[Bradley]

[QUOTE]Anyone know of any well-known lefty players?

Oddly enough, Chris Thile plays right handed but is actually a left handed person.....

Maybe he has it right and we're all wrong
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[John Flynn]

I think it is a trade-off. If you learn right handed, you will have a bigger selection of mandolins and you should be able to learn the fretboard stuff more quickly than right handed people. You will probably develop a very unique style, all your own. If you go lefty, you will have an restricted choice of mandos and you will be more likely to sound like everyone else.

Just FYI, there are some on this site who will wave the "lefties as an oppressed minority - stand up for your rights" flag and I don't think that is helpful. After all, it is completely arbitrary that historically, "right handed" instruments have the player using the left hand on the fretboard. What if it had always been the other way around? After all, the music is in you. The instrument is just a tool you use to bring it out. We all have frustrations learning to play. I advise you don't rush to blame it on equipment choices. Just MHO.

The guy who taught me to play guitar over 30 years ago was the youngest brother in a familiy of right handed guitarists. He learned right handed, he was a great player and I still think his style was one of the most unique and interesting I have ever heard. Ironically, his strong point was his finger-picking...with his right hand!

[Bluegrass Boy]

I am left handed and play left handed instrments. That's just the way I thought it was done when I started playing guitar 30 years ago. Since I usually use both hands playing, I'm not sure what the benefits are to one way or the other. Sure is a pain not being able to play other peoples instruments. And having to saw off the scroll and glue it on the other side to make my mando left handed is always somewhat nerve wracking.

[mandocrucian]

Ryan Thompson, aka "Captain Fiddle" is a multi-instrumentalist from NH who, after years of playing, developed an unusual neurological condition which affected his ability to use the bow with his right. #So, he retrained himself to play left-hand and wrote a book about playing left handed fiddle. You might want to take at look at thisarticle (http://home.tiac.net/~cfiddle/stringsarticle2001.html) he wrote for Strings magazine, or this interview (http://home.tiac.net/~cfiddle/leftyinterview.html) about playing lefty. #He can still play mando, guitar and banjo right-handed, and does.

I will flip my A mandolin over to the right side now and then, or get out my left-strung Mid-Mo, and plunk around on left-handed. This is mainly to try various beginner level exercises and/or tunes on myself for evaluation. #But I find that when going back to RH playing, the fingerpicking, pick + fingers and 2-handed tapping seems a bit more fluid than before.

Niles Hokkanen

[Eugene]

This topic actually arises with fair frequency. I am a lefty who plays a few different instruments. Every instrument I have endeavored to play I have done so right handed. With a plectrum instrument (e.g., mandolin), this gives the bulk of dexterous work to my dexterous hand (i.e. left). Even instruments with standard techniques that require more right-hand dexterity and finger independence (e.g., classical guitar or lute), I play as a righty. Playing a musical instrument is such an anthropogenic act, that I really don't think there is anything in our evolution to dictate which direction the neck of a chordophone should point to maximize music-making efficiency. I suspect the first character to concoct such a thing (I think Galpin pins the name "Lingal" on the mythic inventor of lute kin) made a rather arbitrary choice which way the neck should point, and it just stuck. I always recommend that any lefty starting from scratch at least try to learn as a righty. I think cases where playing righty is just impossible are simply rare or dictated by injury. Finally, taking up left handed instruments will eliminate a delicious and intriguing world of historic mandolins as possible considerations if our hypothetical beginner sticks with it and develops such a taste.

[Cary Fagan]

Interesting responses. I've been working on making my right hand stronger, in part by working with a metronome (which I'm sure righties would benefit from just as much). It seems to be working and I think that I'll just have to give up the left-handed excuse.

All limitations are also strengths, right?

[Billy Mack]

I write with my left hand, but throw a ball with my right hand. I have a right hand trigger finger but shoot billiards left handed. I play a right handed mando. I am so confused.

[Eugene]

On confusion, I am fairly strongly left handed, but I am right eyed. Too bad I'm a horrible baseball player; I understand such cross-dominance is in high demand there.

Something to which righties aren't likely to relate, I struggled with scissors as a toddler until I forced myself to learn to use scissors with the right hand. When I arrived in kindergarten, my teachers, being aware of my "sinister" slant, insisted on giving me left-handed scissors! I struggled to make them work in my right hand without success. It took a good deal of convincing for them to provide me with proper scissors again.

Mandolin is easy; cutting out paper dolls is hard!

[KYGirl]

I'm right there with ya Billy Mack, with the only exception of I have a left handed trigger finger. I also play golf right handed. I'm all messed up too! But playing right handed feels right.

[august west]

Lefties should be playing righthanded instruments because it puts their dominant hand on the fretboard? #Huh? #That sounds like a pantload of bad advice to me. #By that line of thinking shouldn't all righties be playing lefthanded instruments? #~MJH

[mandocrucian]

From the description of Ryan Thompson's Playing Violin And Fiddle Left Handed (http://home.tiac.net/~cfiddle/lefthandedbook.html) book:


"Included is a critical analysis of why - It's better to bow with your dominant hand, whether you are a right or left handed person! The myth of the "left hander's advantage in playing right handed" is debunked with numerous logical, scientific, and common sense arguments! Despite the previous right handed bias towards playing bowed instruments, jazz violinists, old timey country fiddlers, Cape Breton fiddlers, symphony violinists, and leaders of several major string quartets have discovered the benefits of bowing lefty. Some fiddlers even play regular right handed violins left handed with good results!



Niles Hokkanen

[Kid Charlemagne]

I'm sure there are trade-offs for you if you're left handed and choose to use a standard (which also happens to be a right-handed) stringed instrument over a specially-made left-handed version. But consider that when you first learn an instrument, the motions for both hands are equally foreign to you. At that stage, it doesn't really matter which hand is doing what, 'cause neither one knows what it's really doing - kind of like stem cells or something.

Personally, I've always felt that people who use left-handed instruments are missing the point a little bit. Right handed players use their left hands for fingering and the right for the pick; how is that harder or easier than using the right hand for the fingerings and the left hand to pick? Isn't it six of one, half a dozen of the other?

[c3hammer]

I've been playing lefty mandolin for about two years after a couple of months of trying righty.

Needless to say it was the best move I've ever made.

I will suggest that you have 4 fingers on the fretboard to to the work of one pick. In otherwords, your pick has to do 4 times the work of each fretting finger.

Getting fingers to and froe on the fretboard is rather simple relative to effects such as cross picking and picking tripplets http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Cheers from a tried and true lefty!

Pete

[jeffshuniak]

I am left handed, I play left , sinister as I prefer to call it. I could spare you my own personal pride in being left handed and my whole speil about it and get to the musical aspect...


**as far as abilities, well am no doctor, I dont know much about anatomy or the brain, but if a right hand person should learn right handed, and thats natural....
then it seems logical, and reasonable to only ask the same of a naturally left hand person.... eh? sounds like an platonean dialogue waiting to happen...

to learn otherwise, to me, would be like asking the right hand person to learn left....just becuase.. or with some other great handicapp imposed... I do understand the history of left handed (playing) musicians being almost non existant, so maybe if you want to be historically accurate , you may want to impose this handicapp onto yourself...or I dont know, maybe its not so hard for you, Eugene seems to be happy playing right hand... I tell you when it comes to buying instruments, I sure wish I was right, no argument there, except that I prefer custom instruments anyway..anybody will make you anything you know.

the biggest concern is only if you want to play with emsembles and orchestras, you may encounter some Nazis who want you to play right hand. a matter a fact , probably most people will...if you want to play in a smaller group, then the world is yours I suppose. but most of all, if you feel inspired to play left, then be an artist, dont let the mob bring you down.
another member here once sent me an article about a girl violinist who was injured and learn to play left hand, she worked in orchestras still, they found room for her, such a virtuosi, to have learned right, and then relearned left... thats passion.. I want children from this girl.
oops . ok, so this was a whole discussion about left hand bowing, and one member's joke, that didnt condemn nor condone, just an observation... "perhaps, the times they are a changin."


J.S. the sinistre mandolin

[joshro78]

I think it's all up to the player. Obviously, there is no correct way to learn for a lefty. If you want to play a right handed instrument, learn on a right handed instrument. Before I started to learn mandolin, I tried to learn guitar on a right handed instrument, but I just couldn't get it, then I started to play mandolin - also on a right handed instrument. Well, after I learned mandolin for a while, I was just able to learn guitar like it was nothing. My point is, you can do anything with practice and muscle memory. Once you get used to playing right handed, it will be second nature. Oddly enough, I still play air guitar left handed - go figure.

[jeffshuniak]

I think it's all up to the player. Obviously, there is no correct way to learn for a lefty.
maybe I should mail you a CD of my band.


and next I would like to say "wha?" and again, "wha?"

how do you say.... a fingerboard is a fingerboard no matter how you look at it... its a straight piece of wood with strings, you flip them around and ... whalaa!!! alla kazam! thats the correct way for a lefty to learn...
sorry if I sound super jerk this morning,

I am passionate, I dream music, and girls of course. not to stray off course, but I met this absolutely beautiful gypsy looking girl this weekend, she plays violin well. problem is, I have a girlfriend who would be super super jealous , and I dont know, I generally dont pic up signes unless they hit me in the face.
..... I wrote this song last night, inspired by this girl, I guess I am evil now? its a real pretty song, italianesque and gypsy, modulating you know..

anyway sorry for that rant...look at the pic of me and my buddy in the "post of pic of you with mandolin forum" around page 40 or something.... you'll see one advantage.... we fit a mic stand in between us, since we meet and the soundboxes... instead of our necks sticking out and making us sit further apart as two rightes do. #we can fit under a rug and do a gig... in a corner, on a napkin. kinda cool when you are starting out.

[jeffshuniak]

do you mean there is no correct way to learn on an upside down right hand f style?

I would agree there, since the scroll would get in the way, but you could still learn positions one and two... right?

[levin4now]

I learned (guitar first) lefty so that I could pick up and play the vast majority of guitars that i came across throughout my lifetime.

In golf news, last year's Master's champion is a righty who plays lefty. He beat out Mattiace, who plays righty but is a lefty.

And this year, a real lefty won the Master's.

[joshro78]

Jeff
What I meant was "There is no right way, according to all the leftys". Some learn right-handed some learn left-handed. Ultimately, the player has to decide which way to learn and figure out the advantages and disadvantages for his/herself. The main reason I didn't learn lefthanded was that I couldn't find a left handed instrument and I really knew nothing about playing the mandolin and I certainly didn't feel comfortable with switching the mando around on my own. Oh and the scroll on the bottom wouldn't look too great either.

[joshro78]

Hey you can send me a cd of your band if you want!!! I'd be glad to hear you guys!

[jeffshuniak]

I totally misunderstood what you meant then, josh...and so I agree with you, there is no "correct" way to learn. of course, the band orchestra leader would prefer to hire a right hand mandolinist as he will fit in the pit with no alterations to the traditional chair arrangments.(if thats a problem, I dont really know for sure) I would love to send you a copy, I hate to feel like I am shoving anything down someone's throat... but if are interested, send me a private email with your address and I 'll send you a copy,, I am actually doing this huge studio "cram session" where I am basically plowing thru everything I know, every genre, and I am going to cut it up into a few demos... one for wedding planners, one for the barroom gigs, restaurant greek, italian... and so on. no bluegrass, sorry if thats your bag o tea, but there are plenty of guys WAY better than me that you can listen to for that kind of music.

[Eugene]

Lefties should be playing righthanded instruments because it puts their dominant hand on the fretboard? #Huh? #That sounds like a pantload of bad advice to me. #By that line of thinking shouldn't all righties be playing lefthanded instruments? #~MJH
Nonsense. #You've read more into my opening statement than you should have. #You'll note that I was describing personal experience (with frequent use of "I" and "my") and not endeavoring to advise anybody. #The real thrust of my argument is that there is plenty of work to do for each hand, and the direction the neck is pointing is arbitrary to a complete beginner (other than being influenced by having seen others playing). #Keep in mind that everything presented here is anecdotal (nobody has presented formal, statistical test results in favor of his/her point of view), and what works for me might not for you.

[jeffshuniak]

this always gererates such fun...lets pretend for a minute that we are participating (those of you who care to be creative) in an old philosophical dialogue....
I'll be Plato's dumb brother who always loses the arguements...
whats his name "glaucon" or something like that...

(now I voiced this belief before so, prepare for redundance)

"a right hand person holds the instrument in a manner so it is confortable and fully utilizes the coordination of your hands and fingers..and if that person holds it with the neck extending to their left, with the right hand picking, this is considered natural and acceptable.

now if a person favors the other hand, and holds the instrument accordingly, why is it NOT considered appropriate and natural? is the left hand person to compromise the same natural abililty the right hand person possesses, just becuase of "common belief"

where does the actual LOGIC of this change?

WWPD?
(what would plato do?) # #not that he's a friendly philosopher, but he's got a cool writing style.

I just want to hear some philosophy on this... why should a right hand person play naturally, and left , un-naturally.

it sounds like a big double standard to me.... right hand fascists. (not you euge)

[Eugene]

Ah, my argument is that there is nothing "natural" at all in playing a musical instrument (necked chordophones specifically), no matter which way you point the neck. Such an act is purely anthropogenic and, in many cases, the direction one points the neck as a beginner is arbitrary and as likely dictated by the traditional expectation of your handedness as it is by any state of being natural. Again, this is my take as a lefty, and it works for me. I don't expect it to work for lefties at large.

[danman]

I've been playing left-handed #for 30 years. Yes, getting quality high end instruments is a pain. I first played a right handed mando upside down and backwards..then I re-learned on a custom made instrument. Great adventure. If I had it to do over again, I would probably try to make myself learn righthanded. But, after all these years, I still would not trade the experience.

[Christine W]

I agree with Eugene there is nothing natural about contorting your fingers into uncomfotable positions for hours on end. So that being said neither position is natural so either position would work. Of course I was one of those unfortunate children who where beat into submission (not #literaly) and had to learn to use my right hand because I was left handed and society didn't want to deal with me and my lefthandedness. However, I was a stuborn child (and much more stuborn woman now) and they did not conform me totally So as a result I am ambidextrious. I have always done things by the way they feel, and have not concentrated on the way they are supposed to be done nor have I been hung up by righthandedness or left. I just do it.

[ironlionzion]

i am a left handed player...playing left handed instruments....wouldn't have it any other way...jut got my new MK legacy delux a few weeks ago and love it!
STEVE
let their be songs to fill the air

[mandocrucian]

How many people have actually tried to play both ways? #Right handed, then flip the instrument over to the left, which gives you lefty reverse-stringing (or vice versa - lefty mandolin flipped over). #Or on both right-handed and left handed instruments (and one can also flip the lefty over and play RH reverse-strung).

The case that playing an instrument is a two-handed operation, and an unnatural physical one at that, making it irrelevant for a left-hander to play a RH instrument has a major fault - the two hands are handling different functions. #I think that case is much stronger in regards to instruments such as flute, sax, English concertina, whistle, etc. on which each hand pretty much has the same sort of physical tasks.

I mess with this ambidexterity stuff to try to push my mental processing capabilites to handle any situation that comes along. #It's like teaching yourself to read upside down print. Can one think it through fast enough and still play tunes on an reverse-strung instrument? (you could also learn several different stringed instruments with different necks, or mess with various alternate tunings, and give the the synapses a similar workout)

I don't think that the actual comparitive research has been done concerning whether a LHer playing RH is as natural as playing LH, or if there are any significant developmental differences. #Where are the neurologists and physical therapists to answer this question from a more scientific/medical viewpoint.

Niles Hokkanen

[Eugene]

I agree with a good deal of what you've said, Niles. #I have tried to play lefty on left-handed instruments of friends, but only after I had spent a number of years playing as a left-handed character playing right-handed instruments. #This, of course, wrecked any semblance of objectivity with which I could approach the topic. #Playing as a lefty on left-handed instruments is now decidedly not for me.

On the fact that the hands perform different functions on the typical necked chordophone, you are absolutely correct. #My point is that none of those tasks are particularly natural, and I'm still not convinced that assigning them based upon a player's handedness is any more than arbitrary. #The reason I'm not convinced is, as you've clearly stated, "I don't think that the actual comparative research has been done concerning whether a LHer playing RH is as natural as playing LH..." #I am a natural left-handed skeptic and tend to weigh anecdotes as anecdotes until supported by statistics.

[Charlie Derrington]

Aubrey Haynie is left-handed (and plays right-handed) and I think Chris is also. Those are two pretty darned good reasons to learn to play a right-hand instrument, even if one is left-handed.

As a student, I played trumpet and switched to French horn with no difficulty. (the valves are operated with opposite hands). I think it all comes down to what's comfortable for the player, however, I know how difficult it is to build a left-handed F-5, and given they are so rare, I would think it would be just as easy to learn (from ground zero) with a right-handed instrument as it would a left-handed one....and, a darned sight easier to obtain a righty.

Charlie

[c3hammer]

Aubrey Haynie is left-handed (and plays right-handed) and I think Chris is also. Those are two pretty darned good reasons to learn to play a right-hand instrument, even if one is left-handed.
Charlie:

I wish to respectfully disagree with your statements.

Because some of the best in all fields have learned on the prevalent handed instrument is not evidence that right handed instruments are superior or even acceptable for left handers.

Who's to say that Aubrey or Chris wouldn't have been that much better if left handed fiddles and mandolins had been prevalent when they started. The fact that left handed instruments are virtually unavailable precludes us from ever knowing if some of these prodigies would be better served with a left handed instrument.

Building a left handed F5 takes exactly the same amount of time and effort to build as a right handed instrument. I'll suggest that if you find a highly skilled, fully left brained luthier, that he or she could picture and work out all the details of making lefty models in about 5 minutes.

Unless of course all the parts where machined rather than built by hand. In such case any person could build fixtures and mirror cut paths in a matter of a few days.

As to whether it would be a profitable undertaking is another story completely http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Cheers,
Pete

[danman]

Aubrey grew up in this area. His first fiddle teacher, Ted Locke, will tell you that Aubrey's natural, God given talent showed through from the first time he touched a fiddle.Either righthanded or lefthanded.
#
Many years ago I contacted several builders to inquire about building a lefthanded f-5. Most did not want to take the time or bother to build one. On Dempsey Young's reccommendation I called John Hutto. It was one of the best phone calls I ever made. John looked on it as a challenge and built one of the finest mando's I have ever seen or heard. Bar none. I know there is not a hugh demand for high end lefties, but I do think there is a market. I will always appreciate John and his God given talents. Either right or lefthanded.

[Charlie Derrington]

Well Pete, maybe I said it wrong. It sure is a lot harder for me.:) I also don't know how Aubrey could be any better than he already is. The boy is quite amazing and he and Stacy are some of the best folks around.

Charlie

[Flowerpot]

I can think of one reason (speculating) why the traditional orientation may be the "best", and that is the right brain/left brain functionality. The melody is primarily a function of the left hand, which would put it under the control of the right brain (the creative/emotive side). The timing/precision of the right hand would be under the control of the analytical right brain. Yes, both hands work together to produce each note, but when I think about a melody or improvisation, I think about where the fingers land on the fingerboard; the picking hand just has four choices of where to pick and it does what it needs to do. I could imagine it's better to have the fingerboard under the control of the right brain (left hand), so that solos are more inventive and artistic. Again, this is pure speculation.

[Kid Charlemagne]

I'd like to add one little criticism of the left-/right-handed instrument discussion. #Why call the "standard" orientation "right handed" in the first place? #What makes it "right handed" besides the fact that right handed people are more common than left-handed people? #Shouldn't the dominant hand be doing the more complicated motions? #Shouldn't the right hand (for right handers) be doing the fingering, while the left hand handles the less-complex picking?

If someone had handed me a left-handed mandolin as a five year old, and shown me how to play it "left-handed," I would have done it that way - right hand on the strings, left using the pick. #It wouldn't have made much of a difference to me, since I'd never done it either way.

The assumption that somehow one hand is more suited to a particular task (picking v. fingering) is akin to suggesting that people of a particular "race" are only suited to speaking one language. #You learn as you're taught - if you're biologically Chinese, but grow up (from infancy, learning the language) as the adopted child of a family of Bostoners, chances are you'll speak English with a pronounced New England accent. #You won't take to Chinese any easier just 'cause your biological parents were from there. #If you have never played a stringed instrument before, and someone hands you one (left- or right-handed), you'll play it the way you're shown to play it, because it's not a natural action and both hands have to be taught.

The only use the distinction between left-handed and right-handed instruments has is to people who mistakenly believe there's a difference. #If it helps you, fine. #But the fact is that if you've never played either way, there isn't a substantive difference between the two orientations. #I don't care what Hendrix did.

[Burbs]

I always love the discourse on this one. I am profoundly left handed. Some write lefty, but throw righty, do this lefty, that righty... Is there a difference between someone who is lefty by nature, or lefty by early writing habit. My youngest son writes lefty, but does everything else right. When he was young he would start writing on the left side of the page with his left hand and then switch the pencil to his other hand and finish the sentence on the right side. It was pretty funny to watch.
As to the science of it... when I was struggling trying to do fast tremolo for some songs we were doing, I decided to turn it over and do some lefty practice. I found that I could do full eighth note tremolo at outrageous speeds. I had my 1917 A Gibson restrung lefty by a local luthier and practiced for about an hour a day for a few months. I loved the picking strokes... sounded like what I had been trying to do after 4-5 years of hard-code right hand mandolin playing. But alas, at age 41 my right hand fingers just couldn't take the abuse of new pressure points. I started getting pain in my fingers. I had to back off.
I can't tell you how much I wished I started playing lefty instruments 20+ years ago when I started playing guitar. Last time this came up, I quoted a Mike Marshall interview where he was saying that Bluegrass Mandolin (and I assume that would be relevant to other types of music styles) is "all about the picking hand", from whence comes the speed, clean sounds, subtleties, attack, emotion...
What is frustrating for me is to hear people tell a lefty to play righty because it is better for them...
I watch my boys play the mando now and see their picking strokes look so clean. Drives me crazy.

[jeffshuniak]

I think right handed people should learn leftie... then talk.

[c3hammer]

Too true Jeff http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Cheers,
Pete

[jeffshuniak]

yeh, I mean so far, a couple of folks, who I think I like, eugene and kristine, are lefties who learned right.... but the world will never know how good they may have been had they stuck with the left.... euge and kristine, when you guys were little kids, did you ever air guitar? which way did you want to hold it? thats what I am saying is natural. #

when I play a piano, one hand is as good as another, but I can feel a huge difference when I turn those wrists around to hold a stringed instrument. completely different muscles it seems.... I would think if you could hold one either way, and it is literally NO different, then you are not left handed.

[Eugene]

...but the world will never know how good they may have been had they stuck with the left.

Well, I couldn't be any crappier! (A wee stab at self-deprecating humor.) My early efforts at air guitar were a little odd. When I first began to play air guitar, I strummed the fingers of my left hand (as though they were strings) with my right hand (i.e. as a righty), but I had already become accustomed to learning by mirroring what I saw others doing. Without conducting statistical tests on a group of people to take up their choice of left- or right-handed instruments after complete isolation from what playing a musical instrument looks like, I don't think we will ever be able to answer which neck direction is more "natural" (and again, I don't think there really is such a thing). I would wager we would not be able to statistically detect any selection by either handedness for either neck direction...but I suspect we'll never know. Maybe we could get a joint NSF/NEA grant to offer young bonobos a choice between two mandolins (righty or lefty) each? It all boils down to play as you can/must, be certain to enjoy yourself, and feel no shame for anything so arbitrary as the direction your neck points.

[Christine W]

I never played air guitar sorry. I left that up to the guys. I do however every once in a while catch myslef playing air mando now. I actually went home last night and tried to play lefty and it was a strange feeling. But I also was re-trained to use the right hand and my handwriting is atrocious to prove it. So if you want to base this arrgument on what my handwriting would have been like if I was left to my natural instincts I could probably give you better insight than my mando playing. My handwriting would have most definetly been much better even legible. So I guess yes I think if you are able to play the way it feels natural to you, you would be better. I just couldn't imagine someone like Thile being any better than he already is. I think I would quit and use my mando as #wall decoration.
I'll keep working on it though, just for fun and see if it gets better. #(lefty mandolin that is the handwriting is beyond reproach).


Oh yeah and Jeff what do mean you THINK you like,what's there to think about. he he http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[jeffshuniak]

my parents did try to make me learn right hand at first, so I could share guitar with my sister (cheapskates!, no they spoil me) http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #but I was a bad kid.... or a bad pupil...
really I didnt even care about guitar or anything, it was their deal, for me and my sister to become gods or something.... didnt work for either of us...anyway, I didnt like to practise, I hated it, especially right handed , left hand, when I flipped the guitar upside down, it was easier for me to play the same pieces , upside down, so it had to be that way... of course, I learned with the strings proper after my parents bought me my own guitar and reversed the strings. (no lefties classical guitars, still, even nothing mass produced,I dont know) it was a cheap yamaha. one of the few things I #remember #about my lessons then, my teacher wore slacks and his 'anatomy' was always well emphasized and that bothered my eyes, I didnt like him, I thought that was scarey or something.

[carolynbeth]

I'm a complete leftie in everything -- except for playing guitar and mandolin. I don't know why it is, but it never felt comfortable to play leftie for some reason....and it's literally the only thing I can do right-handed.

Strange....but it's nice to know I'm in such illustrious company, if that's true about Aubrey and Chris....I wonder if I could play like them if I tried playing leftie? now there's a thought..... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Carolyn

[mandocrucian]

I think right handed people should learn leftie... then talk.

I pretty much agree with the above statement, especially when they are spouting the conformity doctrine. #At the very least, they should identify themselves as RHers. How's that song go...."Walk a mile in my shoes..."

I am RH, but as I've said, I mess with playing LH. It gives me a window into the physical tribulations of beginner players, something which I could not even begin to remember otherwise, because it was so long ago (RHed). But I'll flip the instrument over at times, just because I might bored and this provides a different (and for me, a mechanical) challenge.

I can't come to any conclusions about whether playing from the less dominant side is more difficult or not, because the data (from my persoanl experience) is completely skewed from all the neural wiring from playing 30 years. I'm not starting from square one - I already know what I need to do so avoid or self-correct mechnical problems (tension is #1) and to apply progressively gradated exercises for the most efficient absorbtion of muscular control. #

There are some interesting (to me, at least) things I've noticed. One is that the ear>(L fretting) hand wiring carries over to fretting with the RH. If I can pick out melodies from ear, and the LH fingers automatically go to the right notes, the same thing tends to happen even if playing LH, albeit a lot slower because of the mechanical limitations. #Why? #I gues it is what I would call the mirroring effect - it's fairly natural to do the same action simultaneously with both hands (e.g. tap the tabletop with this sequence of fingers: T M I M R M I M)

<span style='font-family:courier'><span style='color:red'>LH: T M I M # R M I M
RH: T M I M # R M I M</span>

Now, notice the difficulty level when the sequence is different in each hand:

<span style='color:red'>
LH: T M I M # T M I M</span>
<span style='color:blue'>RH: M I T I # M I T I</span></span>

Sort of like trying to pat your head and rub your belly at the same time!

I do have a LH strung mandolin (a Mid Mo I bought for this purpose). For some reason, I find that playing the RH mando flipped over (reverse stringing for LH) seems more natural than playing the lefty strung mando. I'm not sure why, but it could be any of the following: 1) I've spent more time on the RHmando flipped over than on the LH, 2) somehow the brain more easily images the the reverse strung setup than the mirror image, 3) it's less of a stretch playing on the strings closest to the fingers, and since I'm playing more on the bass end of the instrument, it therefore feels "easier". #Of course, when it comes to chords - the flipped over RH tuning seems to present a real hurdle - you'd need to play your bass note with an U and the chord strum with a D for the most efficient plectrum hand motion.

There probably a lot of people who think the whole thing is silly and a waste of time. However, I've found that after playing LHed, when I switch back over to RHed, I have increased fluidity/control in the RH when it comes to pick+fingers, fingerpicking and/or 2-handed tapping. And, imo, incorporation of pick+fingers technique is the portal to whole 'nother level of playing.

After playing from the other side, it's not uncommon to feel a little "scrambled" (mentally) afterwards. #It's because you are utilizing circuits in your head that aren't used to being exercised, and are installing additional wiring. What's also happening is that you are increasing the cross-hemispherical connections of the brain, letting the two sides exchange data more easily. For more on this, check out Keep Your Brain Alive: 83 Nuerobic Exercises (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0761110526/qid=1081962869/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-2619970-6025720?v=glance&s=books) by Lawrence Katz & Manning Rubin; your local library may have a copy on the shelves.#

I've been reading #Smart Moves: Why Learning Is Not All In Your Head (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0915556278/qid=1081962096/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-2619970-6025720?v=glance&s=books) by Carla Hannaford, Ph.D., and there are some examples of physical ambidexterity exercises used to improve the progress of kids with some learning disabilities, improving the cross-hemispherical connections. <span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>(A lot of this same info, though from a different perspective, I'd gotten previously via martial arts with it's emphasis on ambidexterity, nerve pressure points, relaxation/imaging etc.)</span>


when I play a piano, one hand is as good as another

While the differences are nowhere as obvious or prounounced as on a stringed instrument, I would suggest that this is not exactly true. The physical interface of player/instrument affects the ease of what is physically played and thus the vocabulary. #The LH has the finger the same scale in a different way than the RH. This difference can come into effect, though with training of both hands to do anything and/or everything it becomes less and less of an issue.

The chromatic 5-row accordion used throughout norther europe far more than the piano accordion has a RH keyboad of 5 rows of white and black buttons in a 2 dimensional layout (piano has a linear 1-dimensional keyboard). The chromatic scale runs on a diagonal. The Russian bayan is the Russian 5-row accordion, but having an inverted keyboard layout. #Where as one accordion keyboard gives the chromatics on a R&gt;L downward diagonal, the other is on a R&gt;L upward diagonal (I can't remember which has which). #But the result is that chromatic passages are much more comfortable to play on the bayan, so that you'll find a lot of chromatic runs in the Russian accordion stuff. This illustration has a parallel in the way the two hands must finger the scales on a piano.

But back to the original question of whether it is "better" for a lefty to play RH or LH......I don't know!!! #But I think it naive and simplistic to assume than natural dominance (and the degree varies from person to person complicating any definitive conclusions) of one side over the other doesn't have some sort of impact. The automatic response of"Play right-handed so that you can buy a readily available scroll-model mandolin later on." seems to be the worst reason.

(Why don't you tell your daughter..."I think you should get a job as an exotic dancer...you can make some real good $$$ fast and I then won't have to shell out to send you to college, and you won't have to ever bother with homework and all that other boring garbage again."?

Niles Hokkanen

[joshro78]

I am also a complete leftie in everything but playing mando and guitar, but that is because I really had no choice. When I bought my mando, I had a very limited budget so it was either buy the right handed mando or don't buy a mando. I couldn't find a lefty anywhere. Sometimes I wonder if I would be better playing left-handed but then I remember I'm not any good anyway and it's really about enjoying the music and playing isn't it?

[Eugene]

The automatic response of"Play right-handed so that you can buy a readily available scroll-model mandolin later on." seems to be the worst reason.
Actually, I agree here again. #My early suggestion that playing lefty shuts out the world of vintage was made completely without scrolled mandolins by in mind. #Any number of modern builders can knock off marvelous f-styled instruments, left- or right-handed, on request. #I own exactly zero f-styled mandolins and frankly find them a little garish.

A good deal of my love for music lies in the recreation of earlier music in a way it might have been done by its contemporaries. #The reason for my initial pursuit of music as a pseudo-righty was simple and practical in that my grandfather (my first teacher) had ready access to right-handed instruments. #However, had I pursued left-handed instruments as a complete beginner, all the vintage things I love would not be available to me. #Until recent times, necked chordophones were generally built to have the neck in the left hand with the bass strings gravitationally upward (obvious exceptions are instruments like bass violins or viols designed for the neck to be roughly vertical); these include guitars for as long as there have been instruments recognizable as guitars (often outwardly symmetric, but asymmetrically braced), early 20th-c. flat/arched/bowlback mandolins with asymmetric pickguards (e.g., those by Martin, Vega, Gibson, etc.), professional-grade Roman and Neapolitan mandolins of the early 20th c. with fingerboard extensions to span the soundhole under e" only, (of course) the aforementioned f-style mandolins, et al. #One certainly could have anything custom built for a lefty, but I can't afford such behavior (it's cheaper to buy a ca. 1850 guitar or mandolin than to have one reproduced)...and there is something undeniably fulfilling about playing Paganini, etc., on a guitar or mandolin that was made in Paganini's life time. #I still recommend complete beginners at least [i]try right-handed instruments before resigning to left-handed ones. #The thrust of my argument remains "play as you can/must, be certain to enjoy yourself, and feel no shame for anything so arbitrary as the direction your neck points."

Your finger tapping demonstration of mirroring is mesmorizing, Niles. #Indeed, contrasting sequences are difficult. #Oddly, finger action in contrasting patterns between hands doesn't seem nearly so confusing with a guitar in hand. #I'm not certain why, but I'm keen to get out of the office and experiment. #Have you seen Pumping Nylon, Scott Tenant's little technique-building book for classical guitar? #It has some rather simple finger independence exercises. #They could provide something intriguing for anybody who cares to fingerpick mandolin.

[Billy Mack]

When the first stringed instrument was built, was it played by right or left handed musician?

[jeffshuniak]

we have been so discriminated .. why couldnt a Vinnaccia or an Embergher make a lefty , just for a special somebody. I guess they were too elite to pander to any special request?


sorry, I didnt mean that I question whether I like anyone... I was just being cautious ...maybe someday I'll go to a synopsium and meet some members... so far the only one I know of that I would go to NY for is the carlo aonzo workshop, which sounds pretty intimidating, much less expensive.... someone say tzoura? and my friends in NY are now friends in Arizona. ( friends I can sleep at their place and hang out and visit)

[bratsche]

In the world of bowed strings, this concept of "righty and lefty instruments" is a relatively new one, influenced, I suspect, by the plucked string world. Up till recently, the only reason to alter the viokin would be the desire of someone with a physical deformity (caused by birth defect or accident) to play such. Handedness was never an issue. Traditionally, the viokin are what they are, period. An altered specimen is considered not "left-handed" but simply "backwards". In this context, most of the very few people who play backwards instruments are actually right-handed.

Will things change in the orchestral world? Not likely, I predict. Many, if not most, playing venues have tight space restrictions as it is, and due to bowing issues, a person playing a "lefty instrument" would have to play on a desk with no partner, in most cases, restricting available space even further. I doubt there will ever be "affirmative action" for players of backwards instruments! As it gets harder and harder to find a symphonic job (orchestras are folding in frightening numbers, as conservatories continue to turn out awesomely talented students in droves), hundreds of applicants now flock to audition for a single opening. IMO, it is a foolish parent who caves to this popular trend and lets his or her left-handed offspring learn on a backwards instrument. Such a person is virtually guaranteeing that the student, unless s/he is in the one-tenth of a percent cream of the crop category talent-wise, either remain a dillettante forever, or become a fiddler in a band.

I had a good friend in the high school orchestra with whom I could never quite keep up. She, a lefty, early on developed quite a remarkable and fluid bowing technique - with her non-dominant hand - which I envied. Conversely, my fingering technique as a young student - with my non-dominant hand - was somehow always light years ahead of my clumsy bow arm. Go figure.

Given my background, I am having somewhat of a hard time sympathizing with lefty mandophiles who feel discriminated against. When the classical world can boast such left-handed greats as cellist Pablo Casals and violinists Itzhak Perlman, Jascha Heifetz, and Nicolo Paganini, the very innovator of dazzling modern technique (in both hands), who all play/ed on traditionally strung instruments, it makes it difficult to shed a tear for our allegedly "oppressed" brethren/sistern.

Just another point of view.

bratsche

[jeffshuniak]

lots of great inventions were made from "the back of the bus" too. #I accept the symphony /ensemble arguemtent, I believe I mentioned that... if thats your future and dream for your child, than maybe go that way... I am certainly glad my parents let me do it my way... of course, I dont get work in the florida orchestra, my teacher joe braccio does , so its not inconcievable that I could get in there...
and I love vivaldi and paganini... but for "the rest of my life" career kind of things, I much more enjoy simple humble folk and jazz, more feeling in it for me... being in big bands is very respectable and wish I could add that trophy to my mantle, but I have so much fun with the gypsy, greek, russian, the folk and jazz, all this stuff really really talks to me...classical is too classy for me really...as a performer


ps, HI susan!

[jeffshuniak]

also, I need some clarification here....calling all historians :

wouldnt there have been social/religious implications to learning left hand back in those days? #(vivaldi- to- paganini ) maybe paganini would have been considered some devil?

when I look up siniser, third definition says, "medevial, christian- from the left

[bratsche]

Hi Jeff,

I'm no historian, but I am aware of the background of the word "sinister" as well as the trend of assigning negative social/religious implications to certain things musical (i.e. the discussion of tritones elsewhere). Violins have even been called the instruments of the devil (with good reason?)

However, I really don't imagine that there was any particular bias against lefties altering their instruments, since "regular" instruments were not even considered to be "right handed". They simply were what they were, like a French horn is what it is. As other people have said, both hands have to do some very unnatural things when one is learning a stringed instrument, and neither fingering nor plucking/bowing is particularly "geared" to one hand or the other, in an innate physical sense. Just because some people are trying to make a case that they are doesn't make it so. For my part, I have yet to be convinced that the techniques suited to bow arm (or picking hand) is more innately suited to the dominant hand/arm than the non-dominant, for the reasons as stated in my earlier post.

bratsche

[jeffshuniak]

yeh, I have to restate my earlier post as well.

right handed people should try learning to play left hand, and see whats its like.. then talk about orientation and nature... not just a few virtuosi, but the average rightie, learn left hand,,its not that easy , you know...

you are right about violins, and its a shame that you are right... but I could sit and the end of the row..

[jeffshuniak]

I also would like to say I really dont understand how people seriously say that one hand has no dominance over the other..

are you guys for real?

you really believe that?

[bratsche]

I've tried switching hands. It feels sort of the same way that learning to play in the first place did.

We're not (at least I'm not) saying that "one hand has no dominance over the other"; obviously one does, and that's why we call it the dominant hand in the first place...

I'm just saying that based on my observations, it doesn't seem to make a heck of a lot of difference which role (picking or fretting) is played by which hand, dominant or non-dominant. The chosen roles are more a matter of learned behavior.

bratsche

[Burbs]

Small experiment. Take a pen/pencil in you dominant hand. Turn it over, touch it to a piece of paper and pretend that you are frantically erasing something you wrote. Most can make this almost electric-saw looking smooth fast motion. Loose wrist just wiggling away. Imagine that on your mandolin strings. Now try it with you non-dominant hand. That is the action you get on your strings if you pick with you non-dominant hand. The fret fingers press the note (non-trivial), the pick does the volume, angle, intensity, tremolo, rapid-fire strumming, cross picking…
As to the reference to left handed virtuosos who play right handed… Take a 4 years old with an extraordinary musical gift, and have them play 8 hours a day for 12 years. It probably won’t matter which way they play. Take an old average person like me, and I will take any advantage I get.
All I know is that after playing stringed instruments semi-professionally for 20+ years, I can turn my instrument over and get a cleaner/faster pick stroke off the bat. And that drives me crazy. The problem is 20 years of developing left hand technique on the fingerboard, the alternatives now are to painful. I want to offer people an option to think about valid alternatives. Your choice depends on your goals, finances, degree of “handedness”…
I am very surprised that there has not been a scientific study on this from at least the guitar point of view.

[Eugene]

I also would like to say I really dont understand how people seriously say that one hand has no dominance over the other..

are you guys for real?

you really believe that?
I don't think anybody writing here has tried to make that claim; I certainly haven't as a stereotypical lefty (well...other than the fact that I place the mandolin neck in my left hand).

[Eugene]

Small experiment. Take a pen/pencil in you dominant hand. Turn it over, touch it to a piece of paper and pretend that you are frantically erasing something you wrote. Most can make this almost electric-saw looking smooth fast motion. Loose wrist just wiggling away. Imagine that on your mandolin strings. Now try it with you non-dominant hand. That is the action you get on your strings if you pick with you non-dominant hand. The fret fingers press the note (non-trivial), the pick does the volume, angle, intensity, tremolo, rapid-fire strumming, cross picking…
Keep in mind that, for some of us, picking with the non-dominant hand is our modus operandi. #I tried this. #Both hands pulled off an "electric-saw looking smooth fast motion" pretty easily. #Oddly, my left hand (both my dominant and my fretting hand) executed the motion from the fingers, and my right (both my non-dominant and my picking hand) executed the motion from the wrist. #Read into this whatever you will.

[jeffshuniak]

based on my observations, it doesn't seem to make a heck of a lot of difference which role (picking or fretting) is played by which hand, dominant or non-dominant. The chosen roles are more a matter of learned behavior.
I disagree #


I suppose we could go on forever. would a Neurologist agree with you ?-- that which hand does what makes no difference,,, I mean.. we wouldnt be having this conversation if that were true.


I did try to learn right, and I went left after just a few lessons. so go figure, I certainly could tell the difference "as a beginner" back THEN- or else I would be right handed today, right?


maybe thats just me...maybe I should print this thread and fax it to some neurologists and see if I can get one of them to respond...I think God loves only his right handed children.

[bratsche]

Imagine if you had been studying violin instead of mando, and playing a "lefty" instrument wasn't even an option. Not only wasn't it an option, but imagine it was a thought that hadn't even occurred to you, because the only person you knew about who had ever switched his instrument and bow around was the guy who had 2 of his left fingertips sawed off in an accident. Would you have persevered? Or just quit? Or would you have become the first person you ever even knew about to say, "hey, I'm left handed, so why don't I try holding the violin in my right hand?"

Seriously, on the freelance gigs I do, I usually don't even know what another viokin player's "handedness" is, until or unless I get to see him or her in the act of writing. I can't tell you how many times it has happened, though, that I see someone writing with their left hand, and my reaction is "my gosh, I never knew so-and-so was left-handed - and such a great bow arm s/he has!" (just like the friend from high school that I mentioned). In fact, I think lefty viokin players are somewhat over-represented in the profession, compared to their actual presence in the population at large (I have no scientific evidence to back this up, but it sure seems that way), and you sure don't seem to find them struggling to keep up - if anything, they typically excel! On more than one occasion, this has caused me to wish that, like my brother, I had inherited our dad's southpaw!

Also, I meet quite a few people who tell me "I used to play violin in school, but I gave it up." I ask them why, and get all sorts of typical reasons, but one I've not yet heard, (and don't expect to hear any time soon) was "It was just too difficult, because I'm left-handed."

But a neurologist would probably tell us all of this is just in our heads. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

bratsche

[bratsche]

As far as the pencil eraser experiment goes, I also find that both of my hands do it about the same. But then, I've had to play vibrato most of my life too (which came quite naturally to my non-dominant left hand, and was something I learned in my first year of playing at age 9, from observation, without being taught to do it).

bratsche

[pgdoyle]

Try this: #Drum with your middle and index fingers on the tabletop as fast as you can, first with one hand and then the other. #Can you tap equally fast with either hand?

When I try this, I find I can drum roughly twice as fast with my left hand as with my right hand. #When I drum with my right hand, it feels kind of like when I'm trying to explain to someone else how to do something with the computer: #I know what I want them to do, and I keep trying to explain, but they keep clicking in the wrong places. #Very frustrating!

I tried for years to play various stringed instruments right-handed. #At some point I realized that I was simply never going to be able to get that right hand picking fast enough. #I switched to left-handed, and yes, it was like starting over, but it wasn't long before I thought, `So this is what it is supposed to feel like!' #Very soon I found could play equally well on either side (or rather, equally badly). #Then I could play better left-handed. #Still not very well, I grant you. #And yes, I'm still yelling at my right hand to put those fingers in the right place. #But it feels much more natural this way around.

I know plenty of lefties who are happy playing right-handed. #Some of them assume and assert that I should be happy playing right-handed, too. #Well, they are wrong. #There are different kinds of lefties. #Some can happily play right-handed; some can't.

HYPOTHESIS: #Those lefties who can happily play right-handed are those who can drum their fingers pretty much equally fast with either hand.

So far, I have exactly one data point (me). #If you want to send me more data, I'd be delighted to hear from you. #If it looks like there is anything to this, I'll look into doing a more serious statistical study. #It shouldn't be hard to do a definitive test. #Harder will be to test whether those lefties who can happily play right-handed are those who could drum pretty much equally fast with either hand *before they started practicing*.

Leaving aside the statistics, here's a suggestion: #If you are a lefty who is trying to decide which side to play on, and you don't have ready access to a lefty instrument, try playing a righty mandolin backwards. #Never mind chords, just try playing single-note tunes. #If you were destined to play lefty, it won't be long before you realize it; and whatever skills you develop playing a righty mandolin backwards will quickly transfer when you get a lefty instrument.

More important suggestion: #Pay no attention to all this theorizing from righties, and from lefties who can happily play righty. #Some lefties were meant to play lefty. #NON ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM!

[OdnamNool]

I also would like to say I really dont understand how people seriously say that one hand has no dominance over the other..

are you guys for real?

you really believe that?
I agree with you, jeffshuniak. I also don't understand why folks are in an uproar, here... Who cares? Play whichever way is most comfortable for you!

I have a lot of experience with "lefties". I also have had a lot of experience with "neurologists." (No, not for me, but others that have had problems with brain damage, and other types of ordeals...) The comment, "But a neurologist would probably tell us all of this is just in our heads" kinda bothers me... Don't speak till you've been there...

[OdnamNool]

I also have a lot of experience with children and... believe me... #they would play an instrument in the way that is most natural for them... and they would whale on it with no holds barrrr #So much more feeling than the dry, harumph, attitude of "grown ups..." #Get back.

[jeffshuniak]

you know, unfortunately I am obsessive enough to think about this last night....:D #and I came to a realization that a leftie learning right takes great determination and excellent, effective study habits.... the same things that make a good musician?



I would suspect that the mere "study habits" needed for a lefty to merely hold and manipulate the chosen instrument, would be the very thing that makes he or she an excellent musician... possibly right handed people #wouldnt reach virtuosi level at the same ratio because , since its easier,,, its easier for a "slacker" to learn and be average....so sure, there's a lot of right handed slackers clogging up the stats...(it has been mentioned how many excellent leftie gone righties there are and have been..) #

anyway I am just rambling now... there's no doubt susan is right about the orchestra situation, unless "times" change, which they most likely wont outside a high school band..we could shoot all the messengers but this is so.. it has been the standard for so long.. #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif #I dont like the word mandophile though.... kinda ugly.. is there anything "phile" is connected with "good" intention ? #I dont think you mean to be #condensending (coming from a violinist?), but if that came from a stranger, I definetly would.. I do play some other instruments, you know... as I am sure few people come to the mandolin first...


to answer carey's question, or one of them.... now this guy obviously isnt well known in the states,, I dont even know his name and I am talking about him http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif maybe vic knows... there's a left handed guy plays the bazouki in greece,, new school rebetiko I believe.. but he's considered one of the really good ones..of the new school .. which almost everybody agrees is just like the modern state of everything else.. entropic or decadent? anyway I am rambling again...I have to gig solo tonight.. kinda not too at ease today.

[Eugene]

Try this: #Drum with your middle and index fingers on the tabletop as fast as you can, first with one hand and then the other. #Can you tap equally fast with either hand?

Yes.


HYPOTHESIS: #Those lefties who can happily play right-handed are those who can drum their fingers pretty much equally fast with either hand.

Voila! #...But I have been playing classical guitar for several years (longer than I've played mandolin), and I have deliberately labored to develop finger independence in both hands. #Again, this is simply another something I've learned.


More important suggestion: #Pay no attention to all this theorizing from righties, and from lefties who can happily play righty. #Some lefties were meant to play lefty.

How about my theory as a lefty happily playing righty: "play as you can/must, be certain to enjoy yourself, and feel no shame for anything so arbitrary as the direction your neck points?"

[Eugene]

you know, unfortunately I am obsessive enough to think about this last night....:D #and I came to a realization that a leftie learning right takes great determination and excellent, effective study habits.... the same things that make a good musician?
Really, I doubt it took any more determination for me to learn as a righty than it did for you to learn as a lefty. Anybody who can craft abstract sound into art on any scale (i.e. all of us) should be encouraged and celebrated.

[jeffshuniak]

its hard to say.

[jeffshuniak]

you would have to clone one of us,, teach one left , the other clone , teach to play right handed...even so, gee, our clones could have environmental, emotional #factors, too.. this is a most difficult case to prove either way.

is there another way to measure the learning differences? who learnes what at what speed? thats all pretty murky territory. #I am surprised I must admit to hear you dont think it takes extra effort though.. you must be "both-handed."http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif I really thought I had come thru with some kind of compromise there.. everybody's right kinda deal.. you gotta admit , this thread is getting old...

[Eugene]

Well, if you saw me toss a baseball with my right hand...or write a simple word...or handle cutlery...or execute any other one-handed task, you would be inspired to the comment "That dude is definitely a lefty!" My point still is that the roles of both hands in playing a musical instrument are anthropogenic and unnatural, and that the assignment of those tasks to one hand or the other is likely often arbitrary.

[jeffshuniak]

I was trying to strike a compromise... and the reason I came up with seems pretty practical..to me..

let me just say, ok , uncle I am wrong. I dont care anymore.

but I am a sinister mandolinist. can you say that?http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[Eugene]

I can...And I am sinister in all things except chordophones....where I'm simply kinda crappy! #(More for the self-deprecating roster.) #I still say "play as you can/must, be certain to enjoy yourself, and feel no shame for anything so arbitrary as the direction your neck points." #Really, isn't the point to enrich and amuse yourself and like-minded hearers? #Enjoy it however you can!

...And fear not, I don't think this thread has gotten old at all. #With several thoughtful comments and suggested physical demonstrations that hadn't occured to me before, I think this thread breathed new life into material that I had believed became stale long ago.

[pgdoyle]

If you think folks who want to play mandolin left-handed have a tough time, you should check out the discussion of lefty violins on the violin forum:

http://www.8notes.com/f/31_16673.asp

The high point of that jolly discussion for me is the suggestion that, since obviously no ordinary orchestra would want lefty violinists mucking up its visuals, special orchestras should be organized solely for lefties.

[c3hammer]

Please don't include the violin traditionalists in this discussion http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I got the help of Gary Vessel and Ryan Soltis in converting an old german conservatory violin to lefty. #It's a pretty dang good sounding fiddle now.

The looks on peoples faces as I was trying out bows with it was one of pure amusement as they realized that someone actually was crazy enough to convert one over. #It's pretty funny to see really. I got the idea from Woody M. on here. He has done it a few times.

Needless to say Gary could make you a lefty. #He can even play mine. #Some peoples brains just know inately how to bring the right notes out regardless of how an instrument is laid out.

Cheers,
Pete

[mandocrucian]

Lefty experiment update/report

<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>preamble:</span>

I taught a Beginner Mando Boot Camp a few weeks ago (Apr 4-7), so I was playing a lot in class and afterwards (jams). Whether it was playing so much, or playing so much plus playing on a few octave mandos and citterns with the bigger stretches, (on Tues eve, 8th) I felt the telltale pinch at the base of LH ring finger, which indicates a pulled muscle. Stopped playing that evening, took some aspirin and iced it as precautionary measure. And tried to give it a rest, as we had a gig coming up and I need to be able to play.

I played a fair amount of tneor banjo at that gig, and a lot of it was stuff like vintage Americana - Stephen Foster and Civil War tunes and such. On this tyoe of stuff, a simpler less notey way of playing, to me, sounded more appropriate/better. I was still concerned about my LH finger stamina to make it through the 4-hour gig without re-pulling the muscle again. #And one of the thoughts was, "If my left-handed playing was better, I should be able to pull off this Stephen Foster stuff lefty and give the L (as the fretting hand) a periodic rest while I flip over to the other side."

This thread also refreshed the whole left&lt;&gt;right topic as well, so between the two, I figured I'd start putting in some time regularly (45 min minimum daily) playing lefty. Actually, over the past 3 or 4 days, I probably put in over 12 hours on it. Just trying to play tunes I know, being able to grade these tunes on technical difficulty which is coming in handy on the beginner instruction stuff I'm putting together. #Tension and tightening up is the #1 impediment.

<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>conclusions/observations:</span>

Mechanically (which is what it is primarily about for me doing lefty) it's getting smoother all the time. The ear&gt;RH hand connection is already there, a carryover from ear&gt;LH(fretting) wiring.

The misconception that a lot of folks probably have is that improvements/benefits of this sort of exercise is restriced to the specific nature #of the drill. #That is, it only improves the ability to play left-handed. But you actually feel different afterwards; it's hard to explain. #You are after all, messing with the circuitry of the brain by making it do things it isn't usually doing.

OK, I had one of my regular mandos out last night, and playing RH, from the fingerpicking and pick+finger side of the equations, I may as well have been practicing that sort of stuff for all those hours. Increased control and independence of the right hand fingers.

OK, but, you are installing, as stated before, new neural wiring, and you can't really predict what other sort of messages or processing will be routed through these new connections. One of the things spies learn to do is read upside down. So the spy goes into someone's office and can read memos and anything else that is on the person's desk as they carry on a conversation. I will occasionally entertain myself with this mental game. At first it's really difficult to do - like trying to decipher some sort of ancient script or heiroglyphs, but the brain begins to sort stuff out on its own and gets easier with practice.

On a whim, I tried this again last evening. I'd been messing with LH playing for the past few days. Surprisingly, I found that I could now read upside down quite fluently. Perhaps not as fast as reading silently (normal orientation) but, if reading aloud, there really wasn't much of a difference. (Some dyslexics I know have told me that they can read regardless of the orientation to the page, even though they deal with the randomized jumbling of letters in their brain. #In this case, I'm just recoginzing the words as if some interfacing switch had been turned on.)

Out of curiousity, I just tried the Da Vinci mirror reading thing to see how I'd fare. That was much much slower going, though the up/down orientation wasn't nearly as much of an issue as the mirror-imaging of the text in terms of the decoding of it. #So the new wiring isn't really doing much in processing the reversed lettering. (Once again, you can feel your brain rewiring itself after one of these experiments. Sort of like there's a burr inside your head and you have to shake it out to "get normal". Do it for a longer period of time, you get beyond that and you just "feel different."

What does this anecdotal evidence say about right vs. left playing? # #Ya got me!!!! But, they aren't the same.

nenakkoH seliN
- - - - - - - - - - - -
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>"!erehpsimeh thgir ruoy etarebiL"</span>

[OdnamNool]

Woh???!!! Interesting study, seliN... Thanks.

[OdnamNool]

I mean... Whoa!!!

[Eugene]

Intriguing. This brings up an interesting point in my own history. I have always been able to fluently read text in mirror image (e.g., the backside of a printed page on particularly thin paper), often without realizing that that which I'm seeing is backwards.

[august west]

shameless plug, I've got a lefty Weber Absaroka up for sale over in the classifieds. Sorry for the spam. ~MJH