View Full Version : Bluegrass Jam
good_ol_al_61
Oct-09-2005, 11:58am
I have been regularly attending several "bluegrass jams" in my area. These jams are not sponsored by the governing bluegrass association in the area, but most of the players are members (as I am).
The past few months there have been many Hank Snow songs played and I have probably took the lead in this as I was raised on bluegrass and Snow.
Is Hank Snow now considered "bluegrass"? or am I on my way to getting a ticket from the bluegrass police?
glauber
Oct-09-2005, 11:59am
"Don't ask, don't tell." http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
John Flynn
Oct-09-2005, 12:13pm
To heck with the bluegrass police. Who cares? IMHO, the kind of people who act as "bluegrass police" are not the kind of people whose opinions I care one iota about. Every bluegrass jam I have been at, someome has called a non-bluegrass country tune, often Hank Williams. My observation is that the reaction depends on who calls it. If it is a good ol boy who has been in the group for years, people will go ahead and play it and "grass it up." What is wrong with that, anyway? Some bluegrass "stars" have "covered" non-bluegrass tunes in the bluegrass style, then all of a sudden, those tunes are OK with the BG police. You think if Bush, Compton or others at thier level want to do a tune in the bluegrass setting they worry about the BG police?
ourgang
Oct-09-2005, 1:18pm
IT'S ALL GOOD.
Charlie Waller used to do a Hank Snow medley in the CG sets, pretty funny, good and grassy.
mrbook
Oct-09-2005, 3:59pm
They are good songs, easy to follow and learn, great to play in a group setting, and you don't need the "high lonesome" voice many of us don't have - what's not to like? Monroe covered songs by Bob Wills (Time Changes Everything), Johnny Cash (Big River), and others among his own classics, and my record collection has quite a few country songs done bluegrass style. I think many people wish today's country music sounded like today's bluegrass.
mpeknox
Oct-09-2005, 5:12pm
mando johnny, i'm gonna have to issue you a ticket.
glauber
Oct-09-2005, 6:59pm
"Assume the position!" http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
jim simpson
Oct-09-2005, 7:52pm
I saw someone onstage at a festival(mostly old-timey)this summer wearing a BLUEGRASS POLICE t-shirt. I loved it!
OlderThanWillie
Oct-09-2005, 8:12pm
Larry Sparks and his Lonesome Ramblers did a Hank Williams medley on the Prairie Home Companion radio show this weekend. He mentioned that these songs were from one of his CD's. As far as I know, Larry Sparks is a Bluegrass musician so those Hank Williams songs must have been Bluegrass.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
mandolinrick
Oct-09-2005, 8:26pm
Good Ol' Al,
The Hank Snow songs you do are good ones! We can keep doing them at our jams! Did someone at one of the other jams register a complaint???
And it is ALL GOOD!
Rick
good_ol_al_61
Oct-09-2005, 8:44pm
Thanks Rick.
I love to do those Hank songs, just getting everyone into the C# key is a challenge.
I did get some looks (you know the kind) at some jams away from our local ones. I just wanted to get everyones opinion BEFORE I got a local comment. I just want to fit in and not cause any contoversy. I am enjoying myself just too much to mess it up now.
The Moose jam last night was historic. The General was there on Dobro and Moose had a good singing night. We busted up a little after midnight only because most there had an 8 am engagement at a church out of town. I know they were dragging this morning. Wow, what a night!
swampstomper
Oct-10-2005, 6:00am
Go back and read the famous Red Allen quote from Pete Wernick's book. I don't have it at hand, but essentially he says that if he likes a song and can't get it out of his head and just has to play it -- it's 'grass! A good example is how he jumped up We Live in Two Different Worlds (Acuff) and Whose Shoulder will You Cry On? (Kitty Wells).
BTW that Larry Sparks Sings Hank Williams is such an emotional album.. not sure if it's out on CD.
bnjrpkr
Oct-10-2005, 7:25am
I love to do those Hank songs, just getting everyone into the C# key is a challenge.
I think I'm starting to understand why you might be gettin some dirty looks. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
I'm thinkin that C or D would work just as well as C# about 95% of the time.
Here's my unofficial list of keys to avoid in a jam:
Ab, C#or Db, Eb.It's not that big a deal for me to play in those keys,I have a capo,but it's kinda unhandy for the folks that are not used to playin in those keys.(almost everybody).
Just my opinion,of course.
I like Hank Snow songs too...... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif
Ken Berner
Oct-10-2005, 7:50am
No, Hank Snow is NOT bluegrass music BUT, who cares? My first live encounter with Mr. Snow was at the Opry in '53 at The Ryman and he was a superstar to me. The jams I participate in are not snobbish affairs; we play bluegrass, folk, country, blues, Gospel, plus . . . .! "I'm Movin' On" will rattle through my brain for as long as I live. If y'all are ever in the Mobile area, holler.
kudzugypsy
Oct-10-2005, 8:36am
any classic country is fair game for BG work (pre-1975 urban cowboy).....now, i know a BG band (with *hits* on the BG Unlimited charts) that do new country (ie Shania Twain's "I want a man crazy bout me" song - and some others i dont even know who they are) this is a blugrass police prime violation IMO.
.....and they aint even funny versions http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
mpeknox
Oct-10-2005, 8:46am
I did get some looks (you know the kind) at some jams away from our local ones. I just wanted to get everyones opinion BEFORE I got a local comment. I just want to fit in and not cause any contoversy.
That's definitely good thinking. I have seen perfectly nice, well-meaning people bust up a BLUEGRASS jam by insisting on doing country song after country song with hardly a pause to give someone else a chance. They were perplexed as to why they wound up playing by themselves while everyone else had either migrated elsewhere or just quit playing altogether. I think it's more important to be considerate and not hog a jam than it is to worry so much about what songs you are playing when it's your turn.
mandopete
Oct-10-2005, 8:58am
I saw someone onstage at a festival(mostly old-timey)this summer wearing a BLUEGRASS POLICE t-shirt. I loved it!
..and are apparently available here . (http://www.beanblossomstore.shoppingcartsplus.com/catalog/item/1533289/1014108.htm)
Clyde Clevenger
Oct-10-2005, 12:25pm
You know, it really does matter. I've seen several local Bluegrass jams ruined when the door was opened to wide. 12 folk and country songs is more than I can take. I do a number of country songs but most are done in a bluegrass format and I love old country. We regularly have guitar pulls, passing one guitar around a circle, usually keeping to at theme, Haggard for a while, we have a category for just the Hanks, Snow, Williams, Laughlin, Thompson. If it's a bluegrass jam, it should be mostly Bluegrass.
I think of bluegrass of a genre that is defined by a style and instrumentation. #The core is pretty clear although there is room for debate around the fringe and some stuff that is clearly not in the genre. #Even staying within the genre and away from the controversy on the fringe, there are still songs that not everyone will like.
From that perspective, I think of a particular arrangement of a song as being what defines it as bluegrass. #The original artist, writer or genre aren't really factors so it doesn't matter if the song was done originally by Hank Snow. #If it were played in a bluegrass style it was a bluegrass song.
Most of the time the distinction isn't worth making but a performer isn't the genre, they perform songs of the genre. #Neither Ricky Skaggs or Nickel Creek are bluegrass. #One plays a lot more bluegrass songs than the other in their current shows. #But primarily playing bluegrass songs doesn't mean that every song you play is or should be in the bluegrass style.
The flip side of this is that there is a set of songs that are commonly done in the bluegrass style and songs that aren't normally done in that style. #A jam is not really the place to be arranging the bluegrass version of the latest Toby Keith song.
mandopete
Oct-10-2005, 2:36pm
I think of bluegrass of a genre that is defined by a style and instrumentation. #The core is pretty clear although there is room for debate around the fringe and some stuff that is clearly not in the genre. #Even staying within the genre and away from the controversy on the fringe, there are still songs that not everyone will like.
From that perspective, I think of a particular arrangement of a song as being what defines it as bluegrass. #The original artist, writer or genre aren't really factors so it doesn't matter if the song was done originally by Hank Snow. #If it were played in a bluegrass style it was a bluegrass song.
Most of the time the distinction isn't worth making but a performer isn't the genre, they perform songs of the genre. #Neither Ricky Skaggs or Nickel Creek are bluegrass. #One plays a lot more bluegrass songs than the other in their current shows. #But primarily playing bluegrass songs doesn't mean that every song you play is or should be in the bluegrass style.
The flip side of this is that there is a set of songs that are commonly done in the bluegrass style and songs that aren't normally done in that style. #A jam is not really the place to be arranging the bluegrass version of the latest Toby Keith song.
Ricky Skaggs is really more of a jazz artist due to his close relationship with Django.
Toby Keith is really more of an advertisting executive due to his close relationship with the Ford Motor Company.
Everyone knows that real bluegrass requires a clarinet!
mikeyes
Oct-10-2005, 3:48pm
Hank Snow may not be bluegrass, but in the 50's he had a music store in Nashville that carried a lot of BG instruments and was populated by pickers. It was there that I got the very good advice (as a 16 y/o kid) to buy a 30's tenor banjo and have a 5 string neck put on. I have a lot of good memories for that store.
toddjoles
Oct-10-2005, 3:50pm
Everyone knows that it ain't Bluegrass music without an accordian!! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Peter Hackman
Oct-11-2005, 12:51am
I love to do those Hank songs, just getting everyone into the C# key is a challenge.
I think I'm starting to understand why you might be gettin some dirty looks. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
I'm thinkin that C or D would work just as well as C# about 95% of the time.
Here's my unofficial list of keys to avoid in a jam:
Ab, C#or Db, Eb.It's not that big a deal for me to play in those keys,I have a capo,but it's kinda unhandy for the folks that are not used to playin in those keys.(almost everybody).
Just my opinion,of course.
I like Hank Snow songs too...... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif
It's odd that BG people should avoid the key of E flat
which is really comfortable on the mandolin.
I believe I'd rather play A flat than F sharp.
However, on a song, it's ALWAYS up to the singer to decide the
key !!!!!
Garrett
Oct-11-2005, 6:30am
It's a pain for the banjo to play in E flat, you have to capo and play in C or D. But if it's bluegrass doesn't it have to be in B Natural!
Forget Eb! The guys I pick with scowl at the B minor in Lost Indian!
Scotti Adams
Oct-11-2005, 8:06am
..gives new meaning to "Bluegrass Rules " huh?
mandopete
Oct-11-2005, 8:34am
Everyone knows if ain't bluegrass music without a trombone!
Hey, it's Newman from Seinfeld.
blammo
Oct-11-2005, 9:49am
Hey, it's Newman from Seinfeld.
Man…you weren't kidding!
http://img427.imageshack.us/img427/3456/seinfeldgrass7ew.jpg
mpeknox
Oct-11-2005, 10:19am
oh man...that is funny http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
AlanN
Oct-11-2005, 11:16am
Too wise!
good_ol_al_61
Oct-11-2005, 1:26pm
This is great!
The photoshopped guitar player reminds me of the "man hands" episode of Seinfeld.
I guess the Bluegrass Police should have thrown the book at these fellas. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
kudzugypsy
Oct-11-2005, 2:27pm
which seinfeld character would be the mandolinist......no, NOT GEORGE!!!...with a bowlback, no less
blammo
Oct-11-2005, 2:31pm
which seinfeld character would be the mandolinist......no, NOT GEORGE!!!...with a bowlback, no less
somehow I think the "bluegrass nazi" might be appropriate, but George it is.
blammo
Oct-11-2005, 3:08pm
http://img450.imageshack.us/img450/3039/seinfeldgrass20os.jpg
sorry…i forgot the bowlback
DryBones
Oct-11-2005, 10:20pm
too funny! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
Darren Kern
Oct-12-2005, 5:45am
any classic country is fair game for BG work (pre-1975 urban cowboy).....now, i know a BG band (with *hits* on the BG Unlimited charts) that do new country (ie Shania Twain's "I want a man crazy bout me" song - and some others i dont even know who they are) this is a blugrass police prime violation IMO.
.....and they aint even funny versions http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
Umm.... actually I think it's Trisha Yearwood, not Shania #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Signed,
The Female Country Singer Police
mandopete
Oct-12-2005, 8:23am
Who is that dude on the banjo?
blammo
Oct-12-2005, 9:00am
uh…stringbean?
Flowerpot
Oct-12-2005, 10:06am
That's way too funny! Somehow, I just knew Kramer played the ban)o... now that's a lost episode of Seinfeld if I ever imagined one.
blammo
Oct-12-2005, 10:16am
That's way too funny! #Somehow, I just knew Kramer played the ban)o... now that's a lost episode of Seinfeld if I ever imagined one.
…and Newman showing up to the bluegrass jam with a trombone is perfect as well.
Now we just need the Soup Nazi with some spoons!
Peter Hackman
Oct-12-2005, 2:28pm
It's a pain for the banjo to play in E flat, you have to capo and play in C or D. But if it's bluegrass doesn't it have to be in B Natural!
Bela Fleck's Acoustic Planet II (the BG Sessions)
has two numbers in Eb: Polka on a Banjo, and
Clarinet Polka. The latter is a duet with John Hartford,
and I believe the sleeve notes have some
remarks on the tunings
used.
mandopete
Oct-12-2005, 6:23pm
Who is Kramer? Was he a Bluegrass Boy?
mandopete
Oct-13-2005, 8:41am
Now these boys know Bluegrass...
Peter Hackman
Oct-15-2005, 1:54am
Forget Eb! The guys I pick with scowl at the B minor in Lost Indian!
Of course; they want the piece in
Eb because the c minor chord
is easier to fret.
uh...ok.
I was speaking in general, and using LI as an example. Arounnd my parts, the jams are mostly older gents, and rarely do I find a guy who will grasp/embrace out-of-the-box things. Not to say it never happens, but it's rare. Mind you, hitting the relative minor in a tune like LI is hardly going 'out there' http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Peter Hackman
Oct-15-2005, 1:28pm
uh...ok.
I was speaking in general, and using LI as an example. Arounnd my parts, the jams are mostly older gents, and rarely do I find a guy who will grasp/embrace out-of-the-box things. Not to say it never happens, but it's rare. Mind you, hitting the relative minor in a tune like LI is hardly going 'out there' http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
My friend Thomas Haglund told me of a studio session
with Jimmy Martin. I've recounted this before, but it bears
repeating.
TH: "Jimmy, I think there should be b minor chord
there in Lost Indian"
JM: "I don't use them fancy chords".