Building a case(s)

[Antlurz]

Just wondering about support/insulation around the instrument. I've got a few different instruments laying around with no cases, and figuired it's time to do something about it. Tentatively, I'm thinking about bending sides...maybe laminated high quality thin masonite. Anyhow, I think there is a construction insulation that might work well inside. I believe it's made by Dow. It's a dense pink foam, usually 3/4" or 1" thick one sees in new homes being constructed. It cuts easily to shape, and I think it should work nicely for forming around the instruments. Anyone use this stuff? Any reason not to, like outgassing...which I'd doubt, etc.?

Any better suggestions?

Ron

[Greenmando]

If you find a hospital supply house they sell foam with different densities, in case you want a firm pad around the rim and a softer foam for the lid. just a idea.

[Antlurz]

There is also a packing material commonly seen around nowdays. It's usually about 1/4" thick and is a closed foam. A lot nicer than bubble wrap. It seems pretty resiliant, and I'd think it would make a good final layer over the harder foam, just before you put the covering on. It should offer nice gentle support as opposed to the harsher rigid foam.

Ron

[Greenmando]

"high quality thin masonite"

I must have skipped over that before. High quality case's are made with quality materials. Masonite is not good enough. And bubble wrap misses the mark completely. I throw extra bubble wrap in the trash if there is any left from shipping.

As I mentioned before, foam comes in many different densities. From rock hard to feathers. Why would you layer foam over foam when you can just buy the proper one?

If you want a mediocre case many are available cheaper than you could afford to build.

[Antlurz]

The quality of the material I'm refering to is comparably as strong as an equal thickness in wood. Laminating would further increase that strength.

As to bubble wrap, maybe you should reread my post.

Why layer it in different densities? to create a strong ridgid protective barrier around the instrument, and the thin softer layers next to the instrument would protect it from the harder outer foam. Should have been clear, but maybe I should have worded it differently.

Ron

[thistle3585]

My experience with masonite isn't very good. It doesn't like to make sharp bends nor is it moisture friendly. It swells when damp. I know tempered masonite, has a shiny surface, will break with little flexing. I would recommend a bending or flexible plywood. This is a specific type of plywood manufactured for radius work in the cabinet industry.

I use an open cell expandable foam for packaging my products. You could do something similiar using a closed cell foam available in hardware stores for insulation. You build a mold and just spray the material in and set the instrument on top and let it mold to its dimensions. You will need to wrap the instrument in some sort of material to protect the instrument. If you would like, I could send you some of the film I use in my packaging system to pack my products. If you would like, I could probably take some photos for you of the foaming process to help understand what I'm talking about.

There have been lots of threads on this before. MIght try a search. There is also a cafe member who might chime in here soon that makes cases and has offered up his experience.

[Ken]

I prefer old fashioned carpet pad for the padding. Single thickness or double as you need to fit the case and instrument, wrapped with whatever fancy material you want, velvet etc. To me it's got the right mix of stiffness and give. I don't know about the masonite, if it is thin enough to bend and you laminate it to get enought strength, don't know why it wouldn't work. The only other downside to masonite I could see would be the weight. I just finished a mandola case and for the sides used plain old 1/4 " ply underlayment, kerfed to bend and then laminated two thicknesses for strength. In the past I've also used the plywood specifically designed to bend, if I remember right it just had a face ply and the core, but no back ply and was a nice product when you had to make curves. That would be my first choice if it was easily available.
Ken.

[Rroyd]

I've used some of the more dense type of foarm you mentioned in your first post in some rectangular cases for the outline of the instrument, with softer padding in the back and lid; I then covered everything with a thick plush lining. They have all been very satisfactory.

[Antlurz]

There is another plywood that might work good. Luan or somesuch. Appears like mahogony door skins and bends fairly easily. It has two very thin skins and a center of some really flexible wood and is one of the cheapest plywoods I've seen. Actually a person could buy a cheap hollow core door and use the skin from it laminated two or three layers thick If the inner foam is fairly rigid, and the shell is glued to it, I'd think it should be very strong unless you are trying to block up a car with it.

And yup. I'd considered the expanding spray foam, but don't know if it would expand and exert pressure on the form or instrument while it was expanding. I know one of the earlier products when this stuff first came out would exert quite a bit of force. In fact, The first spraycan I ever saw of it being used buckled (cracked)a sheetrock wall.

Ron

[David M.]

Don't know how heavy it is, but an interesting material is Gator foam. It's like foamboard or foamcore(styrofoam center w/paper skin --used in photo mounting), but it has a plastic outer skin rather than paper and it's used in signage industry. Don't know how strong it is, but my I recall it being fairly lightweight and strong.

They're making some really neat extruded plastic corrugated sheet material these days, also used in signage. may be a good side or back material with the corrugations adding strength while being light weight.

[PaulD]

It sounds like you're shying away from the Masonite now, which is probably a good choice. I love Masonite for patterns and such, but for something like a case I would consider it only a moderate improvement over cardboard. Even laminating it will not really render any improvement other than to set a bend as someone mentioned. Masonite is basically a slop formed from wood pulp and water, cooked, pressed into a sheet, and then dried under pressure... hence it's self-destruction when wetted (not that any instrument case should be exposed to water!).

I would consider building a rectangular case for ease of construction and design it so you can have compartments for tuners, folding stands, etc. The construction would be simpler. In fact you say you have "a few" instruments laying around... maybe make a double mando case.

If you go with expanding foam and you're concerned about crushing your instrument you could make a plywood mock-up to use for the mold.

There's my contribution... probably worth about what you paid for it! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Paul Doubek

[ShaneJ]

My grandad used to make boat parts, hot rod parts, etc. and would sometimes use Masonite - especially if he needed a curved piece. He'd cut it to shape and then would make some shallow, parallel cuts perpendicular to the bend (kinda like kerfing). If needed, he'd wet it to bend it to shape. He'd usually fiberglass over it after he got the shape he was looking for. Maybe Masonite was better back then, but it held up to water and everything else very well. If you wanted a fiberglass shell and don't have a mold, you could go that route.

Just thought I'd take up for the lowly Masonite a little! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Antlurz]

Paul...

Never was entirely sold on the masonite, although I continue to think if it was backed by a good foam, it should make a reasonably good case. Maybe very good, even. Depending.
Still, I started the thread wondering about others thoughts, and continure in that vein.

StewMac sells a case that they advertise as being very protective, and it is nothing but foam with a fabric covering. Even masonite would be heads and tails above that. With a few suggestions, I'm sure myself, and maybe others can come up with a combination of the suggestions offered and build an entirely adequate, if not exceptional case(S)

Definitely has been some good food for thought bought up here!

I'd imagine there are still a lot of other ideas out there that I'd entertain.

Ron

[BlueMountain]

Antlurz, Masonite is so heavy! It would be cheaper, probably, to buy a case than to make one. However, if you DO insist on making one, try this. Make a rectangular case of 1/8" Lauan mahogany covered with FORMICA with a surface you like. Here's a chance to use that laminate trimmer you've been using only on bindings. Laminate is what it's for. Glue it all together with Gorilla glue and 1/2" square strips of, say, poplar (you can probably get it already that size at Home Depot). Glue on 1/2" backing strips where all the hinges will go, and put more 1/2" strips around the inside edges of the top and bottom sections (you might want to set them down a little so you can put fabric over them or maybe use something decorative, like oak. So now you have a box that is tough and quite hard to puncture, but it gives too much in the center. (It's a bit like a guitar without bracing.) So now you need bracing. Let's say this is for an F5-shaped mandolin. Make BRACING that is shaped like an F5. Make it out of two strips of the 1/8" lauan plywood separated by more of this 1/2" poplar strips. You don't need it to be tight against the mandolin. Leave room for padding and fabric. If you want, you can have this mandolin shape extend all the way from the bottom to the top, higher than the sides of the bottom, or you can have a similar shape at the top. Now, make and glue in RIBS over the area where the top of the mandolin will be, but staying away from the bridge and the strings, as they will be closer to the top. All this should make it so the top and botttom flex very little. If you pad things right, you should be able to toss the case down the stairs without any damage to the instrument inside.

Another possibility, even tougher? Make STRESS SKIN PANELS. These are VERY strong. Take a layer of 1/8" lauan and a layer of Formica, or a layer of galvanized steel, or aluminum, or brass, or whatever, the same size, Make a little frame the same size out of the 1/2" strips with a brace or two inside the frame, and glue and clamp all this. IF you glue and clamp everything properly, you will end up with a panel that is very light, but doesn't flex. This is essentially the way hollow core doors are made. It's a LOT stronger than you might think. (Stress skin panels are great for building houses.) What happens is that wood, etc. flex quite easily, but they don't stretch easily. So as long as the connection between everything is solid, if you put a stress skin panel between two chairs and step on it, it won't bend until two material on the back side pulls apart. You'll need to glue it--screws aren't adequate, generally, for stress skin panels.
Good luck.

[BlueMountain]

Oh, by the way, the air layer between the stress skin panels is good insulation, but if you want you can also put a high density insulating foam in there. Help keep out the cold. Or asbestos if you can get it. Or, maybe, KEVLAR, so it will be BULLETPROOF! Now, if you can also invent a sort of light strap system like a HAMMOCK to cradle your mandolin, you won't even need any padding or fabrid inside, and you will have a lot of storage room in there. Also, if you have can cut resealable F-holes and make an appropriate neck (which could fit in the case), you could turn your case into a MANDOCELLO! Not a good one, maybe, but it would work. While you're at it, why not face the top with Adirondack and the sides and back with curly maple? Even if you didn't want to PLAY it, you could at least face it with a thin veneer and put something waterproof on it.

[Mastersound]

Hi Antlurz

If the cases Stewmac sell are anything like the cases my acoustic guitar and bass are in then they're actually head and shoulders above the standard vinyl covered plywood cases everyone sells, and they don't suffer from misalignment of the aluminium extrusion like the moulded cases.

http://www.teamintlco.com/cnb/namm02/case/bc120.jpg
http://www.teamintlco.com/cnb/namm02/case/dc100.jpg

The cases are made of rigid foam covered in a nylon cloth, lined with a plush fabric. The guitar is well protected, the case itself absorbs the knocks so the bump isn't transferred to the guitar itself, and the cases are very light. My only gripe is that the zippers can catch sometimes.

[Antlurz]

Mastersound...

If I remember correctly, That's how theyare made, but I think they are secured with velcro, or so it looks.

Blue Mountain....

Should I go with ivroid or tortoise binding on the case? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Ron

[PaulD]

"Should I go with ivroid or tortoise binding on the case?"

I think you should use Abalone so it will really stand out!

pd

[Dennis Russell]

Hello: when Someone needs a fancy violin case I go to work using scrap woods. wish Icould send photo of last violin case , I used strips of hardwoods lengthwise glued together and carved it like a archtop. lined it with muslin and tightbond watered down, the when dry I put in crushed red velvet I got from a fabric store, the rest of body of case I made from pieces of scrap maple and poplar heat bending aroound nose shape and made a back block just like making a guitar body, the bottom the same way put braces in appropriate places for storage space of the violin things, lined it withg crushed velvet using cardboard fronm cereal box,s and contact cement. gled top on just like a guitar top , waited a day then cut top like making a lid for a common box , put a lip around it , latches hinges and hardware. varnished the archtop, really looks nice, the fellow who owns it says he gets all sorts of comments, calls it his case of many colors, like the dolly parton tune, coat of many colors, use your imagination, building another one now using Maple top wit oak strips and zebra wood scraps and mahogany, going to use carpet for inside liner./ Best of luck Dennis In Arizona

[Jim Garber]

All these case makers coming out of the woodwork!! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I have the ultimate(?) challenge. I have been looking for a custom hard case for my bowlback mandolin. Just trying to see what is out there and I thought I finally ran dry but it seems there are other folks willing to make custom cases.

Jim

[Antlurz]

Somewhere in the back of my "mind" is still the super fancy showoff case made of heavy vacuum/heat formed plexiglas or lexan that follows the mandolin countour very faithfully with the instrument suspended at various points by crushed velvet covered abutments, and an airtight "O" ring seal around the lid.

Probably would take the better part of a morning to build it. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

Ron