mandolinplayers that play fiddle too

[jim_n_virginia]

I know there are quite a few mandolin players who also play the fiddle as they are so closely related.

I finally did it, I signed up with a teacher and have a cool old vintage fiddle in the shop right now being set up.

I am thinking that learning the fiddle will only help me MORE on the mandolin.

Any of you mandolin players that also play fiddle is there a discussion forum as good as the Cafe but for fiddlers?

Also are ther any beginner books that are recommended?
I have the Fiddler's Fakebook and once I have the basics down we are going to work through that since I know many of the songs in that book on the mandolin.

WOO HOO! I am excited and I can't wait! Been thinking about this for a long time!

And whats the difference in a fiddle and a violin?

My friends says one has strings on it and the other strangs! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[GVD]

I don't know if I would go so far as to say it's as good as the Cafe but this site Fiddle Fork (http://www.fiddlefork.com) is about as good as it gets for fiddles. I recently took up the the fiddle and have been having a lot of fun playing it. Probably the best thing about the fiddle is the bowing. Unfortunately the worst thing about the fiddle is the bowing too. That may not make sense to you now but I'm sure it will soon. #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

GVD

[jim_n_virginia]

Thanks G for the link thats what I am looking for a place to ask questions.

Are playing any tunes yet? Are you working out of a book?

[Jim Garber]

I am a long time subscriber to Fiddle-L. Also, for fiddling there is Fiddle Forum (http://www.fiddleforum.com/fiddleforum/). Maestronet (http://www.maestronet.com/forums/) has a pretty extensive forum but it is more classically oriented, but useful anyway.

I took up fiddle and mandolin around the same time, mostly playing in the old time genre but I have also dabbled in some other genres as well. Playing fifddle tunes is s gret way to get into the instrument, either onem for that matter. Since I know the tunes on my left hand they transfer pretty well.

I actually took up the mandolin as a bridge instrument between guitar and fiddle, but later got more into mandolin.

Jim

[Lane Pryce]

Hey Jim.I played fiddle before mandolin.I ruptured two tendons in my left forearm and was unable to bend my wrist enough to hold my fiddles.After healing and many months of stretching and therapy I think I am ready to play again.GVD is right on about the bowing and FiddleFork.Get yourself a quality bow with verygood hair and keep a loose wrist.As far as books I was impressed with Jay Buckeys fiddle stuff.My nephew has the complete series with CD's and there are some great tunes as well as theory in the set. Lp

[GVD]

Jim, I have been working out of Mel Bay's "You can learn to play the Fiddle" book because that's what my instructor likes to use. We don't follow it real close though and he doesn't believe in playing hardly anything exactly as it's written. He has been teaching me how to improvise which has really helped my mandolin playing as well.

GVD

[Coy Wylie]

I started on mandolin first and then moved to fiddle. I love what GVD said and couldn't agree more:


Probably the best thing about the fiddle is the bowing. Unfortunately the worst thing about the fiddle is the bowing too.

A fiddle/mando playing friend commented to me just last night, "The mando is like an SUV but the fiddle is like a sports car." I like both. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

When I started I used Brian Wicklund's American Fiddle Method (http://www.brianwicklund.com/) volumes 1 & 2. It's fun and he gives very good instruction for the beginner. Also the Mel Bay Craig Duncan Deluxe Fiddle Method is great for learning tunes, fingerings and bowings. Recently I purchased Stacy Phillips Bluegrass Fiddle Bootcamp DVD's and An Intimate Lesson with Richard Greene (both Homespun). Both are a bit more advanced but get into the intricate details that define bluegrass fiddling.

A great advantage to playing mando is that you can work out left-hand fingerings on the mando first where you can actually see the frets. Then you can work on getting the intonation right on the fiddle. The troublesome part is on mando you put your finger behind the fret. On fiddle your finger is the fret and must be placed where a fret would be.

After playing fiddle for a while I can also hear the fiddle influence in mandolin playing. Take Sam Bush for example. His mando playing is so obviously based on fiddle licks. That's what makes his playing so good and so recognizable.

Be prepared to practice, practice and practice some more. It takes a while to put all this together. When I started playing mando, I was taking decent breaks in jams within a few months. It's a longer process with the fiddle.

[gnelson651]

And whats the difference in a fiddle and a violin?

A violin doesn't have beer stains on it. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[nilodnam]

Quote
And whats the difference in a fiddle and a violin?

The violin looks smaller, but really the players head is just bigger.....

[Doug Edwards]

I been "trying" for two years now on fiddle. I love it, but not as much as mandolin. Playing both really complement each other in your style developement. You can get creative as you cross over from one to the other.

I love those old German fiddles. They make a really nice bluegrass instrument. The two I have are a turn of the centry G.A. Pfretzschner 4/4 and 7/8 Antonius Amati factory fiddle that has a repair label marked 1895. Not a lot of difference in the two, but the 4/4 is louder.

[Jim M.]

I'm a fiddler first (well, I was a violinist first), and I found that playing mandolin helps my fiddling and vice versa. It's hard to go right from one to the other for me, though, without some warm-up in between. The left hands may be similar, but picking and bowing are pretty different actions. Good luck! I have the Fiddler's Fakebook for reference, but the arrangements can be a little odd. I think he was trying to not write the same old tune every time, and it doesn't always work. Stacy Phillips has a collection of Traditional American Fiddle Tunes that is a pretty good source too.

And what's the difference between a dog and a fiddler?

The dog knows when to stop scratching. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[nilodnam]

I recently started fiddle/violin. In my case I am lucky that there is a local fiddle group that I could start with (Fiddlers of the Genesee in Rochester NY). That gave me about 150 songs to work on right off, and more importantly a chance to hear good fiddlers play the tunes. Fiddle tunes are not played as written.

The best suggestion I could offer is to take a few lessons from someone with a classical background to learn the correct way to bow and hold the bow. You may choose to do it differently in the end, but it works for some of the best players in the world, so should work for you.

Fiddlers often times use steel strings (like prims). They respond easily to the bow, are very durable, and can withstand different tunings. Violinists (e.g. classical players) tend to use strings that are more like the old gut strings. They are "more complex" and not as bright. For me, the prims were way too bright and I am still searching for a resonable cost string that I love the sound of. I like Obligato's, but they are $50 a set - to rich for me.

[Jim M.]

For me, the prims were way too bright and I am still searching for a resonable cost string that I love the sound of. #I like Obligato's, but they are $50 a set - to rich for me.
I used Obligatos for a while and loved them too, but, yeah, they are expensive. I've been using John Pearse Artist strings lately. Each fiddle responds differently, of course, but Pearse has been a good (and cheaper) substitute for Obligatos for me.

[mandoman4807]

Great thread! I have been thinking for quite a long time about learning the fiddle as well.

An old-timer fiddle player in Galax, Va told me what the difference between a violin and a fiddle was. The violin is a gentleman, and a fiddle is a sonuvabitch.

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif


DS

[JGWoods]

The difference between a fiddle and a violin?
A fiddle holds more beer http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

So far I like the Helicores on my fiddle, but I ain't much of a fiddler. They change tuning fairly easily and that's most important for me. Tune the synthetic core strings from GDAE to AEAE and it takes 2-3 days before they hold tune. I got a set of prims, haven't tried them yet.

Most ex fiddlers I met bailed out early- couldn't stand listening to themselves. It takes a while to get intonation right. I am part way there, and can play a tune or two that sound just right, and that keeps me going back for more.

[Lane Pryce]

Helicores are great strings and my preferred fiddle strings.Another good choice is Infield Reds.They have a very played in tone and are a great choice for new fiddles.Another selection is a blend of Infield Blues and Reds. The Blues on the G&D and the Reds on the A&E.I'll shut up about strings now-----did somebody say something about rosin? Lp

[Doug Edwards]

I've Prim on one and Helicore on the other. The Helicore seem to have more vibration to them on the lower strings, perhaps less tention. Both sound and play great.

I'm currently using Lewis' RAO dark rosin. I have not tried any others. Any experienced players have a preference?

[Lane Pryce]

Yep--Olive. Nice smooth tone. Lp

[Fred_Murtz]

Make the effort to ensure your fiddle is perfectly in tune before playing. Like any other instrument, play it slow and perfect - the speed will come with time.

[mandochuck]

Have to check out those other fiddle forums. #I have been a member of fiddleforum (http://www.fiddleforum.com/fiddleforum/index.php) for about two years now they have just added a section for plucked strings like mando, banjo and the like.

Ad far as learning the fiddle I have done it on my own. #I didnt get a teacher couldnt find anyone around that would teach me what I wanted to learn. #At my 64 years I have a plan of what I want to learn and where I want to go with my instruments. #Each to his own I started the process with a Mel Bays book "You Can Teach Yourself fiddling" and then I found Fiddleguru (http://www.fiddleguru.com/). #Strings I have used helicores and Pirastro ultra-sensitive strings...really like the Pirastro strings. Hopes this helps I have been on the mando now for my third week...happy fiddlin...chuck

[jim_n_virginia]

Thanks for the links and suggestions everybody. I am lucky to have a friend who has been playing fiddle for a long time mostly Old Time and Celtic and some Bluegrass who is helping me.

At his suggestion I have the Fiddler's Fake book at first I am going to learn all the basics and all but then I want to learn all the fiddle tunes I know on the mandolin.

My goal/plan is to know all the fiddle tunes and instrumentals I know on the guitar, mandolin and the fiddle. I want to know how to pick them and also the backup rhythmn.

I am having Thomastic Dominants strings put on my fiddle which is a very special instrument for me.

It was given to me by a kindly elderly man who lived on my street and I used to do odds and end carpentry work for him and his wifr and when they decided to move to an assisted living facility they gave his old fiddle he had when he was a boy. It is dated 1906 inside the fiddle.

I am exited about classes this Mon and nervous at the same time. The woman who I am going to study under has been playing for 38 years and is classically trained.

You should have seen her face when I told her I was interested primarily in Bluegrass and Irish fiddle tunes. She wrinkled her nose at me and looked at me like I was a Hillbilly! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[Doug Edwards]

You should have seen her face when I told her I was interested primarily in Bluegrass and Irish fiddle tunes. She wrinkled her nose at me and looked at me like I was a Hillbilly! #
Ain't all someway or the other?

[David M.]

Good thread. I've been fiddling for about 10 years now. Great instrument.

So many opinions about strings that it's hard to really discuss because each fiddle's so different. I've narrowed down Prims, Helicores, Thomastik Superflexibles, and Pirastro Flexocore Permanents as my favorites that I keep coming back to. Prims, mostly.

I was recently given a very old E. Martin fiddle. Has a dark reddish varnish and a cool brand on the back by the heel. I'll take it next week to get set up. Hope it's a good fiddle.

Remember on the bow: loosey goosey. All in the wrist, not the elbow.

Have fun with it, Jim.

[David M.]

Oh, post a pic of the fiddle, Jim. I'd love to see it.

Thanks.

[mandochuck]

Way to go jim_n_virginia you are on your way. If I followed your plan I would have to learn all the tunes I know on the fiddle on the banjo that hasnt been played in quite awhile. Seems reasonable to know the same tunes on each instrument.

Never learned backup could never hear the chord changes with my ears. Jamin with old-timers everyone plays the same tune anyway helped me out there. The bluegrass crowd I would still play the melody but very low not to disturb the people who really knew what they were doing...happy fiddlin..chuck

[Lane Pryce]

David those E Martins are collectible.I have played a few and never a bad one!! Lp

[David M.]

Cool, Lane. #This one was given to me. #Not a crack in it, but some varnish rubbed off here and there. #Lots of rosin buildup, too, but Dave Pope, my violin repairman thinks he can clean it.

The guy who gave it to me said he had no use for it, and if he brought it home, his kids would most likely destroy it. #So, I may have me a good old fiddle in addition to my Hopf, my Strad copy, and my Roth 1700. #Another one won't hurt, huh? # http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[jim_n_virginia]

Oh, post a pic of the fiddle, Jim. #I'd love to see it.

Thanks.
David here is the old fiddle I have in the shop now. They are putting new strings on it (Dominants) a new bridge (old one is a little warped), three more fine tuners on the tail piece and restringing the bow. It kinda scuffed up but i like the flame on the back.

http://members.aol.com/magicjunque/backsend.jpg
http://members.aol.com/magicjunque/Labelsend.jpg
http://members.aol.com/magicjunque/wholefiddlesend.JPG

[Coy Wylie]

That looks nice Jim. One great thing about fiddles is that absense of headstock labels http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif They tend to be judged more fairly on tone. I like Dominants as well. I think you have to try different strings to find what works best on your instrument. Be aware though that Dom's take a few days to settle in and stay in tune.

As far as your classical teacher, she will be great for getting started with proper technique. However you may need to move on to someone who primarily plays BG or celtic to get the feel for fiddling those styles.

[David M.]

Can't see the images you posted, Jim. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[evanreilly]

Back to the original question. Two excellent mandolin players who also fiddle are:
Skip Gorman
David McLaughlin