Inexpensive F Style Mandos ...

[Turner Burner]

Hello everyone,

I have searched past posts and have read many entries on the subject of F style mandos <$1K, so I know that many of the purists do not recommend going this route, but rather buying a higher quality A. But, I'm going to swim upstream and ask this anyway, cuz my preference is a reasonably good F style. Also, I have 2 electrics so this will be kind of a traveling mando/ solely acoustic anyway.

I am comparing Michael Kelly (specifically MK Legacy Firefly) with Kentucky KM600s, 700s and Morgan Monroe MCM CB, or MMS. It seems that these may be the better inexpensive F styles (excluding independent luthiers) that are currently available.

So, my question is: what do you all think of MKs? Better or worse than Kentuckys or Morgan Monroes? Are there any others out there that warrant a look-see before I pull the trigger?

Finally, I'm in Sarasota Fl. If I have any musical neighbors - let me know! Thanks,

Turner

"All graceful instruments are known."

[Coy Wylie]

I like MK's for the money. My Legacy Classic (like the Firefly except with block inlays)is much better than the Kentucky I had before.

[elenbrandt]

The old folks on this Board (myself included) will, of course, counsel you to find a good used A which has a higher quality than a new lower quality F ...

now that I have that traditional formality out of the way...The MK's are my choice for a sub-grand F model. I just found that you got more for your dollar tone-wise, playability and wood quality than with the other stated choices. (I have a Firefly equivalent as my traveler -- no complaints -- it serves its purpose nicely.)

[August Watters]

All you purists need to back down -- our friend has done his research, learned all about the market, and made an informed choice to go with looks over tone.

Definitely go with the MK -- they're prettier than the Kentuckys.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[bflat]

i prefer the MM's, much better finish quality, equal or better tone

[fatt-dad]

If I was certain that I wanted to get a MK, and could not play one locally, I would call Billy at Gruhn and have him pick one out for me. He does have a good ear for mandolins and they seem to have a good supply.

f-d

[Don]

I would recommend checking out the used market for a Japanese made Alvarez,Kentucky,Washburn.There was a 1983 Washburn M6s on ebay for a "Buy it Now" of $950.If it's anything close to the quality of my 1983 M6
it's probably a really good deal.I'm so impressed with my M6SW that I just can't say. A comparable "new" mando would likely cost $2000-3000(if not more).This is just my non-objective opinion.

[Don]

That Washburn mando is still up there.Here's the link.
By the way,I have no financial interest,yada,yada.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws....y=10179 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3710481547&category=10179)

[Don]

I would recommend checking out the used market for a Japanese made Alvarez,Kentucky,Washburn.There was a 1983 Washburn M6s on ebay for a "Buy it Now" of $950.If it's anything close to the quality of my 1983 M6
it's probably a really good deal.I'm so impressed with my M6SW that I just can't say. A comparable "new" mando would likely cost $2000-3000(if not more).This is just my non-objective opinion.

[mpeknox]

MK beats any of the similarly priced F style imports I have played hands down. I'm very satisfied with my Legacy FS Deluxe.

[Brad Weiss]

I faced the same question this time last year. The best answer is to play the actual instrument you're considering. Nothing beats that.

I ended up with a Kentucky 675 that I got for $500 with a case. I have since had it set up by a great luthier, and put T-I strings on it, and it plays extremely easily, so I'm always happy with it. But, I have played other 675s that just do not sound, or feel nearly as good. And played some M Kelly's that sounded not nearly as good as my 675- but some Kelly's that did sound quite good- and I must admit the aesthetics are cool (though the finish work is not great on a lot of Kelly's the bells and whistles are attractive). The few Morgan Monroe's I played were not so hot, in my view, and I was initially MOST interested in them.

If you can find examples of what you're looking for, that's your best bet. Failing that, my guess is that a really good set up can get most of these to sound and feel pretty good, once you've bought your box.

Olympia mandolins are made in Korea, imported by Tacoma. They are solid wood and the f-style is less than $600. The few times they have been discussed on the cafe (not often) they get really great reviews for entry level instruments.

In the price range that you are looking, there is big variation in quality in what are supposedly identical models. If possible, you want to actually play the one you buy first. On the other hand, most people looking in this price range are beginners and aren't really sure what to look for if they can play.

[keymandoguy]

Before you buy anything check out The Banjo Barn on E bay They have a Morgan Monroe model BMFS-1 at a fantastic price. Mine was shipped yesterday http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Bowzette]

There are two MKs on the '03 Manolin Tasting CD. One sounds
terrible and the other very good, surprisingly good. Teaching
point-better find a way to "play before you pay". My guess
is that you can find good sounding low end mandolins, but
consistency will be an issue compared to the more expensive
manolins such as Gibson 9s, Breedlove Quarts and Rigel.

**********SHAMELESS PLUG****************

Check the bottom of the listing.

MK & Goodies (http://www.mandolincafe.com/cgi-bin/classifieds/classifieds.cgi?search_and_display_db_button=on&db_id=9002&query=retrieval)

[Bowzette]

Dale's byline: "Dealer of New & Used American made mandolins"
And now he's peddling MKs after all the grief he's past out
regarding Pacific rim imports! Shame, Shame! And now I'm
putting on my asbestos flame retardent suit.

"And now he's peddling MKs after all the grief he's past out"

There is a difference between peddling "A" MK #& Peddling "MK's"....This could be a trade in on an American mando ya know.......Good Grief!! #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

Mike....incoming!

[Chris "Bucket" Thomas]

I purchased a MK Classic from "Folk of the Wood", www.folkofthewood.com. #I a very happy with my MK Classic as well as the service/volume of quality info/attention to detail at FOTW.

Also, I really like the case that I purchased through them. #I fly for the airlines and carry it with me on every trip.

Still hurling mass quantities of asparagus your way.............

[Bowzette]

It is a "slippery slop" you have chosen. Just one beer, just one taste of wine, just one...........
At first it was just one innocent MK sale, next it will be Ky and MM and then some of that stuff on ebay for $50! Dale, look
at what's happening. get a grip before it's too late. give me
the MK so you haven't stooped to selling it for gain! I'm doing
this for your own good.

Ok Ok.......you may be right.....$525 & it's yours. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[WV Mike]

I would also suggest play before you pay or get the guy at Gruhn to help you. I bought a new 2003 MK Firefly Classic off eBay and I have regretted it ever since. #The setup was poor, finish flaws, gaps under the bridge that you could slide toothpicks under and poor nut gluing. #

I contacted Tracy (the President) at MK and was offered no consideration or offer for a refund. #I've since had a professional setup, the bridge properly fitted, nut replacement, and added an Allen tailpiece. #It sounds ok now.

You may find a good one for the money and I hope you do. #I can't help you with the other brands you mentioned. #

Good luck.

Mike

[doanepoole]

Just a word to the wise. I have a friend who got an MK right before they went to a dealer-base. One of the braces failed, and the top now looks like a sideways "b" (if that makes sense). I think he will ultimately get it repaired by MK or replaced, but according to the friend the process was somewhat difficult.

I'd hate to buy a new mando and have a brace fail within the first two years. Not saying all MKs are like this, just a word to the wise.

[doanepoole]

P.S.

Just because noone's carried the torch yet, buy yourself a nice American A vs. an OK Asian F.

[cutbait2]

for those of you who don't know Dale purchased one of the early MK's and sent it on an around the country taste test. this was in response to the ridiculous hype (advertising) surrounding them at the time. that's cooled quite a bit since they are now marketed via dealers and the original owners/band leaders have quietly traded them off.......

I have searched past posts and have read many entries on the subject of F style mandos <$1K, so I know that many of the purists do not recommend going this route, but rather buying a higher quality A.


The old folks on this Board (myself included) will, of course, counsel you to find a good used A which has a higher quality than a new lower quality F ...

now that I have that traditional formality out of the way...


Just because noone's carried the torch yet, buy yourself a nice American A vs. an OK Asian F.

I wonder why some newcomers to the board think this isn't a friendly place??

[doanepoole]

Sorry Tim, that was a joke.

In the future, I'll make sure I suspend my sense of humor in the presence of newcomers so that they can be sure this is a friendly, easy-going place.

[cutbait2]

? sounds like alot of friendly good advice to me. may not be what you want to hear but 'tis the truth. now that the bloom is off the rose we are getting a lot of objective posts about a certain import from former owners. worth reading the archives and making your own decisions. better yet try before you buy some are better than others.

Doanepoole-

After a night's sleep I realize I probably over-reacted. #Only having been a member for about a year, one of the frustrating things has been people who won't take the time to read what is already available. #This guy apparently searched the archives and then asked a specific question and was hit by essentially an inside, running joke more than once in the same thread.

[doanepoole]

Probably shouldn't have given the advice the original poster specifically said he didn't want. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Just tryin after a little humor....no harm, no foul.

[Turner Burner]

Ok well, I have much to digest. I waited a few days since my first post to see all the variety of responses. And thanks to all who offered advice. (It is also interesting to see the various debates that I somehow stepped into.)

So for the record, I am sensitive to the fact that a high quality A may be superior to a mediocre F, but I'm a mediocre player. Also, I would prefer American made instruments if they 1) sound good, 2) play well, and 3) are priced competetively. Seems like our Asian friends may have us beat at the moment in this arena.

At this point I am down to a new or used Washburn, or an MK. I think I am leaning toward a used Washburn first, a new one second, and an MK Firefly third. Any specific thoughts on that conundrum?

By the way, I am not shopping for a radiused fretboard - haven't needed one so far. My fingers work fine, it's that my brain doesn't always tell them where to go. And I'm happy with my speed for the amount of instruction and serious practice I have accumulated to date.

Now the last question (God, I'm really opening myself up here for some serious opinionizing here I think ...), is the radiused fretboard a gimmick? Is it helpful or a hindrance?

That's it. By the way - Magnolia Fest in Florida next weekend: Sam Bush, Vassar Clements, Grisman, Donna the Buffalo, Tony Rice, etc etc. Can't wait!

Turner

"Thinking a lot about less and less
and forgetting all the love we bring."[/B]

[mpeknox]

Unless you're just in it for the looks I haven't been able to notice much difference between MK's lowest priced model and the Firefly. They sound about the same to me. I would recommend playing before you buy if at all possible.

[grsnovi]

Turner -

I played a Washburn M3SW/TS for the last 12 years or so. Built like a tank. Solid wood. The finish is pretty thick. I think I paid around $500 for it to a guy who was upgrading. He had added a Fishman bridge to it.

The board on it is flat.

The board on my new Collings has a radius.

Picking the one up and then the other you notice. The board on my old Vega is flat too.

I'm not sure that the board radius is making my playing any easier. I understand the theory of a board radius, I'm just not so sure that on such a narrow board it amounts to that much. A few weeks ago we had a discussion about just how little that radius crown is, it small.

[elenbrandt]

I had both of my Brentrups made with a radiused fretboard -- much easier on my wrists and fingers. #

The ideal when you are a beginner is to aim at an instrument that plays as comfortably/easy as possible. #Get happy with playing before you begin to worry about the major nuances of the instruments. #Find yourself a nice comfortable mandolin and get on with the learning process. #You won't really know what you want in YOUR instrument until after you have played awhile. #I found that my taste became more educated and/or particular as the years went on. #We rarely stay with our first instruments. Did you happen to notice all the references to MAS - Mandolin Acquisition Syndrome? #Well, there's a reason for it -- most musicians end up laboriously searching for that "right sound" and feel in an instrument -- and most end up going through a lot of changes and up-grades to get there. #Look at it this way...the car you drove when you were 16 was probably not your dream mobile...but in time you will get closer and closer to that mark. #It is all part of the process....

p.s. even if you consider yourself a mediocre player (hell, i'm not much better than that either) -- that doesn't mean that you should play a complete POS -- get the best quality you can afford, it makes a huge difference in whether or not you will get better, and/or enjoy the process.

[doanepoole]

I agree with Elen. Don't let your mediocrity as a player limit your choices. A mando that gives you a "smile factor" will encourage you to play more often, which will lead to improvement. Not suggesting you break the bank, but make sure you're happy with what you get.

I think the one Washburn I heard sounded better than the 2 MKs I heard, but those were "pre-dealer-base" MKs.

On the subject of radius fretboards, I think you need to try these out for yourself if possible. Folks on this board are often fond of these, I personally am not. A pronounced radius, ineviteably gives me hand-cramps. I had to sell a mandolin that was otherwise very good because the radius was too pronounced. None of my local friends seem to like them on a mandolin either.

But, again, lots and lots of folks here tend to love them, which makes me think it is absolutely a matter of personal preference and comfort...perhaps something to do with the shape of your fretting hand?

[A9cp]

Turner

"That's it. By the way - Magnolia Fest in Florida next weekend: Sam Bush, Vassar Clements, Grisman, Donna the Buffalo, Tony Rice, etc etc. Can't wait! "

Where in Fla. I am in Orlando

[Dioptase]

Turner,

I'm not exactly a neighbor, as I live in Daytona.. but at least we share Florida. I will echo the thought that a higher quality A style is really the way to go. The real irony with the cheap imports is that you'll end up spending more money in the long run (or short run, as the case may be, I've bought 3 mandolins on minimum wage pay in under a year).

You might look at Goldtone Mandolins.. they're based in Melborne, Fl. I think Michael Kelly is based right there with you in Sarasota. Michael Kelly's are manufactured overseas. I beleive the parts for Goldtone are manufactured overseas and assembled in Melborne.

I've got an MK Firefly that I'd be willing (happy) to sell, or let you take a look at if you come to Springfest. But I think that only attests to my preference for a higher quality A model.
Micah

[Dioptase]

Turner,

# # # #Yea, if you're coming to Suwannee next week, then I'd be happy to let you play my Mk... and an A9, and a Mid Missouri side by side. #Well, I may leave the A9 home. #But even comparing the MK to the Mid Missouri would be a telling experience... and Mid Mos can be had quite cheap off the classifieds. #If you'd like to buy my Mk, I'll try and be gentle with the pricing.

# # # #I didn't realize Sam Bush and Grisman were gonna be at suwannee-- I wondered why Grisman was playing Savannah the same weekend. #Sweet!
# # # #He doesn't play the mandolin, but be sure to catch the Larry Keel experience. # I can only describe it as Django meets Tony Rice. #
Now if we could just get Doc Watson back down here...

A9-- #
The festival takes place about 3 hours north of Orlando, in Live Oak, Fl. #Tickets at the gate are probably gonna run 130$ for the weekend. #Beautiful campgrounds. # Suwannee is my second home, and it's really the only thing that keeps my spirits up down in these Florida swamps.

[cutbait2]

Good Advice Micah and don't forget the Lonesome River Band Festival a couple weeks later at the same location (with tickets half the price)

[hotpick]

Buy American! The foreign made instruments have the looks but not the chops. If you're looking for sound, go a few extra dollars and get the goods. You'll be happier with the tone and the resale value. I recommend Collings MT at the low end. You won't be disappointed.