Went to Galax

[mando_d]

I went to Galax Friday night and toted my mando along. I had a blast except for the all the people I played with played in G. All of the breaks that I have learned or come up with on my own have been from songs off of cd's. So now I get to transpose some of those songs to the key of G to have the freedom to take my turn on a break. I know that if I knew my scales and fretboard better I could have improvised, but I like playing breaks close to the melody of a song. And who said playing the mandolin was easy. LOL! At least it is something to challenge me to better my playing ability. I was just wondering if anyone else has run into this problem when they first started playing with others.

[OlderThanWillie]

Go to an Old-Time jam sometime. They pick keys to keep the banjo players happy (they don't have to continually retune). They'll play in A for an hour or so, have a discussion about switching keys, and then, maybe, will switch to D for the rest of the jam. As Old-Time songs parts are repeated 10 or 15 times before ending, you'll have lots of time to work out breaks. The only problem is that in Old-Time they don't have breaks.

Good luck.

[Flowerpot]

I like jams where they change keys a lot. The guys I played with mostly at Galax, our sort of "regular" bunch, usually changes keys every 2 songs or so to break it up. The people camped right beside us, although they were very good, would get in B and stay there for an hour and a half. Got to be an annoyance after a while; I wanted to go over and beg them to move the capos up or down, just one fret, for a change.

[f5loar]

Them mountain peoples ain't gots no fancy capos!The first 4 frets on them geetars are slap worn out while the rest still looks brand new. Remember Brisco Darling in telling Andy what key it's in "just grab a handful of chords and hang on... a one and a two.... Ah Dooley was a good ole man.....

[250sc]

Everything in G sounds tedious to me. I find when we play songs with vocals the key can be just about anywhere.

[luckylarue]

It can be discouraging when at a jam and all the songs are in the same key and/or at the same tempo. Sometimes you get one or two singers who "take over" and like to sing in one key. That doesn't interest me - that's when I bust out "Dead Flowers" to shake things up. I prefer jams that mix it up - different keys, fast stuff, slow waltzes, etc. Otherwise, I find myself playing the same break over and over.

[Tom Smart]

Go to an Old-Time jam sometime. They pick keys to keep the banjo players happy (they don't have to continually retune). They'll play in A for an hour or so, have a discussion about switching keys, and then, maybe, will switch to D for the rest of the jam. As Old-Time songs parts are repeated 10 or 15 times before ending, you'll have lots of time to work out breaks. The only problem is that in Old-Time they don't have breaks.

Good luck.
I love playing old-time music, probably more than any other kind. But this aspect of so many old-time jams makes me crazy.

Hey guys, if we just play 5 times through a tune instead of 15, we'll be able to play 3 times as many tunes! Doesn't that sound like more fun???

And you banjo players--how about letting us switch keys every 15 or 20 minutes instead of once every two hours? Too much trouble? Deal with it! As much as I love clawhammer banjo, playing in just one key for an hour or more gets really boring for the rest of us!

[Michael H Geimer]

I run across a similiar, but almost opposite issue at jams.

I sing, but I certainly don't have an ideal Bluegrass vocal range (not even close), so I pretty much always have to move songs away from the common key (or the key of someone's 'definitve' version).

But I commonly get asked to sing song's I've called in some other key in order to accomodate the break someone has worked out, or perhaps someone only knows the chords in a certain key. (I don't know why people think it's OK to put me on the spot that way, but they do)

Once a really strong singer (part of the fest's organization even) called a song in G ... but within only a few lines, she visibly 'handed off' the singing to me, as she couldn't recall the rest of the words and knew that I did. Trouble was ... I sing that same song in C, so there I was stuck in this awful spot of my range ... in public ... cracking and faking it all the way through.

Why is that different than trying to play a break in an unfamiliar key? I don't think it is (and arguably it's worse as voices have limited ranges), so I usually stand my ground about the key I've chosen ... unless someone else's has called the tune ... then I follow that person's lead, grab a handfull of chords, and hang on!

There's no easy answer. But I think it's fun when someone calls a song I know, but plays it in a different key, or with a different groove, or sometimes even with different chord changes here and there. You never know when you might learn something new you hadn't noticed before.

In the end ... I try never to assume I know how someone else is going to play a song at jam just because I might have a CD with that song on it.

Conversly ... I don't worry myself too much about other people's expectations of the songs that I might call at jams.

Seems fair to me ... the person who calls the song, also calls the key ... fiddle tunes being the exception, of course.

- Benignus

[Kelly_guy]

Ouch, Benignus! Switching vocals from C to G? That had to hurt. Like you, I don't have a proper "bluegrass voice", I can't sing very high into the tenor range. So when I pick a tune to sing at the local bluegrass jam, I'll often lower it several steps below what I hear on recordings. I still try to put it in a reasonable key for bluegrass players--I won't call a tune in Ab, for example!

[Michael H Geimer]

OK different jam ... different leader ... this time tempo!

Me: Wabash Cannonbal in E

Leader: You mean G

Me: Nope ... E

Bass: Do you play it fast?

Me: You betcha (as I start chopping time)

Leader: That's too fast!

Me: Fast as The Cannonball (and I start the first verse ... no turning back now, eh? )

That jam was great fun! I was lucky to have a bassist there who 'got it' and really helped drive the song the way I think it should drive.

But for some reason I always hear people play 'Cannonball' in G, and with a loping, lazy country shuffle. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

My only point here is that tempo and feel can vary as much as the key. You could have just the right break worked out, but if someone puts a different tempo or feel to the song ... you're hosed!

Keep on yer toes and be prepared for anything! That's all you can really ever do.

[olgraypat]

I always think of the original on Cannonball as the Roy Acuff version, and it kind of loped along, didn't it? And I'm guessing but certainly don't know, that he did it in G. (?) But, agreed that it would be better to my ear in a faster tempo.

I just put together a song list for a program I'm doing with some friends in a couple of weeks. When I was done, I noticed most of the songs were in G. I was thinking why that was, and my conclusion is: My first experiences picking were on the banjo. Open G, easily the simplest thing to learn. Began to sing a bit to my playing and got used to that key. Then moved to guitar..well, there was G again, chords easy to form...didn't have to play the dang F chord, and same thing I was used to singing to. Then picked up mando, and there it was again, and I could pick up
a few two fingered chords and play the same old songs while learning the closed positions. Have to admit that the closed G was a real hurdle, but it all seemed to just carry over from one to another, and it's what I'm most comfortable with, because it's where I began.....make sense?

[Bobbie Dier]

I went to Galax on Tuesday for the day and played in A B C D E F G . Ya just can't stay at one jam for tooooo long. There are jams everywhere up there http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[sunburst]

My vocal range starts low, and goes down from there. I can only sing the baritone part in bluegrass, so I don't pick the key.

I play banjo. With the off-the-wall tuning of a five string banjo, I'm pretty much required to use a capo in order to stick with the bluegrass/Earl Scruggs sound. That makes it easy to do the same songs or tunes in G, A, B, and Bflat, (even C).
C, D, E, and F are different matters altogether. They require playing out of C or D positions with or without a capo. I can use different breaks and back-up for some of those tunes, but not all, and not easily.

"Funny" keys are sometimes referred to as "girl" keys because many female vocalists naturally sing in entirely different keys than males, and the instruments end up sounding different. Not like Bill Monroe or the Foggy Mt. Boys.

My jamming experience at Galax and elsewhere is usually with people who use various keys and speeds, Usually 3 or 4 in each "capo position" then a change, vocals mixed with tunes, and selections chosen by all the participants with no real leader.

[Michael H Geimer]

I've also heard G refered to as ...

The People's Key

(Duh! Acuff's version ... I've always look back to The Carter's version)

[mandopete]

Sounds like a job for <span style='color:red'>Da Capo!</span>

I hear ya man, now all we need is a vocal capo!