Something kinda funny

[Nick Triesch]

My 18 year old son brought over his new sweet girlfriend and we were all playing guitar. #Then after a while I brought out my F5 type mandolin. #Then his girlfriend asked me #" #Wow! That is really pretty. #Does it come from Hawaii?" #Nick #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[John Flynn]

Was she blond? Sounds like your son has found a teenage guy's idea of the the perfect girlfriend! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[bjc]

At least she didn't ask "how much did THAT cost?" Oh, but wait you said girlfriend, not wife...:-)

[mandodebbie]

Hey, I'm not blond, but I remember what it was like to be an ignorant teenage chick. I only learned about the vast variety of musical instruments in the world when I started taking up guitar in Grade 11. And then I probably wouldn't have known the difference between a uke, a dulcimer, or a mando unless I looked it up in some library book. My sister in law is a 43 year old church organist and was shocked that a mando has 8 strings, instead of six like a guitar.(Gasp!) Our young folks are not to blame when more money goes to funding wars than art/music programs in our schools. So there! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[garyblanchard]

I think we acoustic musicians sometimes forget that we know a lot about things that the general public is not exposed to. I will often be talking to someone and realize that they have no idea what I am talking about.

In a day and age when many young people see a record turntable as a musical instrument we should not be shocked when they are unfamiliar with "old-time" or "old-school" instruments. We should make every effort to get them to appreciate them.

Thanks for pointing this out, Mandodebbie!

[Links]

I'm glad to hear that blondes think mandolins are cute. Maybe it will make me look better when I am posing with my mandolin.

It's too bad that our children don't recognize a mandolin, but I don't think it from lack of school funding. I had just as soon the money be spend on reading, writing , and aritmetic.

[Bill Snyder]

I am 42 and I grew up in a school district that had a very active fine arts/music program. I played viola in school from 4th - 12th grades. I doubt I knew any more about a mandolin than it was a stringed instrument. I don't think music education in schools makes near as much difference in people's knowledge of mandolins as them being played more in several different music genres.

[Ken Sager]

Two weekends ago I'm playing in a small jam at a festival when a man (probably in his 50's) approaches, listens for a minute, then between tunes asks me what that little instrument is that I'm playing. When I said it was a mandolin he sighed with obvious relief.

It was a bluegrass festival, he had exchanged a ticket of some sort for a wristband, and he didn't know what instrument I was playing.

I was more surprised than he was relieved...

[pickinpete]

I work around truck drivers and keep my mandolin close by. I cant tell the number of times somebody will spot it and curl up thier brow and I know whats coming next...."What is that a little guitar?" "Is that a ukelele?" " What the heck kinda instrument is that?" "huh - A mandolin?" "whats a mandolin?" But Im a little suprised to hear that at a bluegrass festival. I would have had to asked him "Sir did you WANT to come here, or did someone BRING you?"

[Bertram Henze]

There's a quite few experiences of that kind I could tell as well, but I think it is just an example for a more general problem with expertise: It is hard to be proud of your expertise because because half the time you're annoyed by other people's ignorance, and the other half you envy those who know even more than you.
I have learned to resist the impulse of extreme answers, i.e. abuse the moron who dared to ask or bore him to death by telling everything about the mandolin types, tuning etc. at once. Instead, I simply say (in my case) "It's an octave mandolin", and I try to say it levelly. That leaves all options for changing subject or asking for details.
More often (and much more difficult) people ask me about my occupation (I work as a senior consultant) - then I just say "Are you sure you want to know?".

[J. Mark Lane]

Our young folks are not to blame when more money goes to funding wars than art/music programs in our schools. So there!
Amen.... A thousand amens!

[Bertram Henze]

I would have had to asked him "Sir did you WANT to come here, or did someone BRING you?"
I remember when I was new to folk music (didn't even have an instrument) and went to my first festival, and most of the instruments there were unknown to me. And I was not brought by someone else, I just wanted to inhale the atmosphere. I think that is the legal way into any music style for those people who did not grow up with it.
Expertise starts to grow from there, and cheers to the man who takes a new interest in his fifties.

[gnelson651]

]
(mandodebbie @ July 23 2005, 15:08)
Our young folks are not to blame when more money goes to funding wars than art/music programs in our schools. So there!


Don't get me start but if we want to do there...the reason there is no money for art/music programs in our schools is because of adminstration cost for employees. Look at your school district's biggest budget item and it will be employee salaries and benefits. Yes, teachers are important but I'm not talking about teachers who only makeup 50% of the salary/benefits cost. Its administrators who make six figure incomes and all the ancillary employees who support these administrators.

The majority of school economic support is local and comes from property taxes. The federal government only accounts for a small percentage of funding. So if there is a problem with the budget not supporting art/music programs, blame your local school board!!!

I know because #I have butted heads with these people for years in an attempt to improve our local school system. It is a thankless job and one small organization with one unpaid individual going against the local shool district is a difficult proposition. Education is now an industry #that is just as monoploistic #and bureaucratc as any Enron...its scandalous.

[Blueglass]

Come on now, let's not blame the schools for a lack of mandolin knowldge. Please, its way to easy to blame the schools. Last time I checked mandolin wasn't in the curriculum. A lack of knowldge is simply because the mandolin isn't as popular as guitar or piano is in popular music or film.
I'm sure thay may be other reasons, but what ever they are I don't think it is the fault of the public educational system.

[Keith Erickson]

Wow! That is really pretty. #Does it come from Hawaii?" #
I dated a gal like that back in HighSchool. #I knew early on, for one reason or another, that she wasn't the type of girl that was going to take home to meet Mom & Dad #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

...and that's all I'm going to say in regards to that.

Now back to Mandolins #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[glauber]

"Does it come from Hawaii?" Hehehe!

How come people have never heard about mandolins but can always spot an ukulele? Elvis Presley movies, maybe? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Jim Rowland]

More time has slipped by than you thought,Gary Blanchard. Kids nowadays think of a record turntable as a quaint,old fashioned,player thingie from "olden days"...that is,if they understand its function at all. Maybe some of the hip hop "DJs"know that it was formerly used for more than sampling and ugly rhythm noises.
Jim

[JEStanek]

At least we can pity the player of the Bohdran (your tam[orine is missing the jangles), bombard, Uilleann pipes, panpipes, polish bagpipes, sitar, and the ever popular bowed psaltery!

Jamie

[J. Mark Lane]

Jamie, that was funny. I laughed out loud and scared the people in my office (again).

How many people do you think an even pronounce the names of those instruments?

[John Flynn]

My kid's school had a well-funded music program, led by a PhD in music, also including a band leader and both full-time and a part-time music teacher, all for a school that was just small to medium-sized. The program was still worthless. My kids did well in every other aspect of school and we enrolled them in every music opportunity the school had, but they got next to nothing out of the music program. IMHO, it was almost designed to make music boring. Schools today can barely teach the "R's" competently. I wouldn't give them a nickel to try to teach kids music and mess up any hope that those kids would have of ever wanting to play for a lifetime.

I have never read an interview with a musician I respect where he or she credited thier school music program as a foundational experience for thier career. However, I have been in bands with a couple of former "school music prodogies" and I hate playing with them. They tend to be all fancy technique and no feeling, and they "don't play well with others." The government, including federal, local and school district levels, already have thier noses way too much in our business. I want them to stay the heck out of music and the arts. Just my two cents.

[olgraypat]

"but they got next to nothing out of the music program. IMHO, it was almost designed to make music boring."


Amen. I had music when I was in school, and I have often reflected that the only thing I learned was that I had no musical ability. This was enforced by many things through the years. Fortunately, when my kids left home, they left a bunch of guitars and stuff behind, and I picked 'em up and began to discover otherwise. Not that I have an abundance of talent, but I considered it a milestone when I was asked if "my group" would provide the music for an upcoming church event and how much did we charge? (nothing, btw)

[Ken Sager]

MJ, are you suggesting that because schools do such a poor job they should teach kids LESS?

It is problemmatic teaching music to large classes to be sure, but opportunities for children who "get it" should remain in the schools. My public school music education was definitely foundational for my musical development. Yes, my parents provided private lessons but from 7-12 years old the only practice I had playing WITH people was in school in the elementary orchestra, or guitar class, or even on the recorder. Playing with others was the most fundamental lesson, and one which I still value most to this day. Maybe my instructors were different, or maybe I was the difference. Nonetheless, I can attribute my love of music in large part to my experiences in grades 3-6.

Things are very different now. Musical education comes from music videos. What kids see in school doesn't look like what they see on TV so they lose interest. I should say MOST lose interest. Like any good education, music education requires positive reinforcement at home.

Just my 2 bits worth.

[Ray Neuman]

Check out the Fiddle player for Dave Matthews band.

There is hope for school music programs, IF we insist.

the victim of a school music program- professir

[luckylarue]

The attitude, "What's not good for me and mine, is not good for anyone else", doesn't quite fly. Maybe your kids didn't benefit but what about all the others? As an educator, I've worked in schools that have had some amazing music programs. In the last middle school I taught, the music program was equipped (thanks to the government) w/ the latest in computer recording and students were composing and recording their own cds. This was also an inner-city school where 85% qualified for the free lunch program. Each year, however, music and language teacher positions were cut, placing more demand and stress on the "good" teachers and the program has suffered somewhat. NO Child left behind is a joke. Anyone who criticizes education should spend a year in the classroom - sure there are a few bad teachers out there but most are amazing people. $400 billion for Iraq so far...that's a lot of mandolins, fiddles, banjos, etc. for tradional music programs in our schools!

[John Flynn]

MJ, are you suggesting that because schools do such a poor job they should teach kids LESS?
No, I'm saying concentrate on the basics.


Maybe your kids didn't benefit but what about all the others?
If my kids, who ARE my responsibility, didn't get anything out of it, why should I be forced, against my will, to pay for other people's kids, who AREN'T my responsibility, to get the same bad service for something that is optional, while the schools are neglecting the basics? You want to take that deal, go ahead and donate your money. I decline.

[wah]

I went to a benefit concert to raise money for music in the schools in Albany, California. David Grisman, Laurie Lewis & Tom Rozum, and the Bluegrass Intentions played. This was all put together by banjo player Bill Evans whose children go to school in that district. A highlight was Laurie introducing a song by talking about the school music program she experienced and the teacher that inspired her. She's not my kid but I'm grateful there was a music program to inspire her.

There was a struggling, not very good, music program in the school my kids attended. They no longer play their instruments but it was an important experience for them. My oldest son (sax) decided to go to Stanford so he could be in the Stanford Marching Band. My youngest son (drums) is involved in some hip-hop productions as a hobby. My daughter still has her trumpet and is enthusiastic about exposing her 5 year old daughter to music experiences. Yes, they got positive reinforcement from home, but without the struggling, bare-bones, and (yes) bad, music program they may never have learned an instrument. I've always been a big supporter of music and arts in the public schools.

Wayne

Wayne

[bratsche]

My high school music program turned out a very high proportion of folks who went into the music professions. I can think of 5 players right off the bat (I'm sure there were a lot more) and at least twice as many teachers.#That was a different era, so I'm showing my age. But I do give them a lot of credit, not only for helping me shape my future, but keeping me pointed toward my goal which in turn assured me of having a future. At a time when there was a lot of turmoil in my life, my music and the support I got at school - between the orchestra director, my private teacher, and the other kids in the program - formed the main rudder that I had to keep me on track with a sense of purpose. #I was fortunate.

And (back to topic), despite having played for over 80% of my life, up until 5 years ago I probably wouldn't have recognized an f-style as a mandolin at all, at least from across the room. If I'd had a chance to pluck it and note the tuning, yes, I would have, but to me, a mandolin just didn't "look like that". Probably somewhat accounts for my preferences today! ;)

bratsche

[morgan]

Not sure how this thread went from blondes and mandolin ignorance to the failure of the public school systems to prepare modern youth for life in an increasingly mandoliniferous world, but my daughter's public school music teacher brought in a (blonde) Tacoma mando to her class this year, god bless him. Of course, Tacomas don't look like "real" mandolins so most of the kids still probably think that a Gibson's a ukelele.

I think its a good thing when people ask me about my mando; its never to late to develop an 8-string appreciation and lack of curiosity is way worse than ignorance. I get the most questions for my mandolinetto. Even the musical cogniscenti have usually never seen one of those.

Another vote in favor of school music programs. My kids didn't play the Kid Mo I bought them years ago but they now enjoy their sax and clarinet, and the school band experience has been a very positive facet of their school life (even without the Tacoma).

[otterly2k]

With respect, MandoJohnny, I disagree with you. I don't have any kids, but I still believe that it is my responsibility to contribute to the education of children. All children. They will be the adults running the show sooner than we want to believe, and need everything we can offer to help them prepare.

The problems of our education systems are complex indeed. In my opinion, more solutions could be generated out of a philosophy of collective/societal responsibility for the future of society than will be generated out of an approach in which we think of ourselves as only responsible for our own progeny.

And as for music in schools...you never know what will be a lifeline for a kid. Music was mine... both in school and out of school. I had good teachers and bad... but the good ones allowed me to experience accomplishment and value that served as a foundation for me in life in many other ways. I'm certain I'm not alone here. In my opinion... in addition to the value of music itself, it is important for school environments to have opportunities for kids to succeed in ways other than academic... a variety of modalities including sports, shop, arts, music, etc...and it's a bonus when ANY of these (including academics) are demonstrated and supported by kids' parents.

At any rate OUR kids (and those we care about, even if they're not ours) will know what a mandolins are!

[Keith Erickson]

It seems like this thread went from hillariously funny to very serious.


Our young folks are not to blame when more money goes to funding wars than art/music programs in our schools.

I wonder how many music programs Usama Bin Laden has funded? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif


The government, including federal, local and school district levels, already have thier noses way too much in our business.

50 years ago the schools where in much better shape, had great sports and music programs and they were able to accomplish this without the Federal Government involvement.

Now we are spending more money on education per student than ever before and we've got kids graduating from High School that can't even identify where the United States is on a map of the world.

[bratsche]

You got that right, Keith!

bratsche

[luckylarue]

Well said otterly2k. Keith, the whole country was in better shape 50 yrs ago - not just education. Our culture today can't compare w/ the days of yore. Seems like childhood is all but disappearing in our present pop culture and society. Look at the images from the mainstream media and corporate marketers that constantly bombard today's youth. Reading, education, and health are just not a priority w/ our government. No wonder we are last of all industrialized nations in health-care and education.
Back to the tangent topic: Music and language are basics in education and should be taught K-12 in every public school. Too bad there's no political will for it.

[good_ol_al_61]

I better write something about mandolins.....Let's see.....Blondes....Mandolins.....uuuuuh.....Rhonda Vincent is blonde and she plays mandolin...ooops, not funny....Oh well.

About the Government Schools rant. It is so real simple to me. Someone mentioned "50 years ago." The real difference was attitude. It was a priviledge to attend school. You could loose that priviledge. Not so today.

Bottom line is no one can change it. It is what it is and no person or group will ever change it. If they try, well, just see where you end up. Scary!

That is why we private schooled and later home schooled our daughter. She will be a doctor in another year and has maintained a 4.0 for 3 years. Yes, I'm proud.

[Eric F.]

Yep, 50 years ago things sure was better. Blacks had their own schools, their own restaurants, their own hotels even. That nice Senator McCarthy was making sure we were safe from the Reds. Women knew their place, and it wasn't the workplace.

Back to mandolins. A family friend's daughter asked me what the heck kind of ukelele was I playing. "It's a kind of guit-fiddle," her dad told her.

[luckylarue]

Well, I didn't mean everything was better. Just in terms of media concentration/television's effect on the dumbing down of people today.

Now on topic. Now that I own a ukulele, I no longer consider the mis-identification an insult.

[Keith Erickson]

Yep, 50 years ago things sure was better...
Even though this should be a mandolin board... #...I'll take your bate for now.

Yes there were problems 50 years ago. #It was not a perfect society. #Yes there were parts of the country that had issues with racism because the political party that controlled the south at the time thought it was the best for society.

Yes Women were relegated to house work, but today because taxes are outrageous, both husband and wife are forced to work.

As for McCarthy, well Thank Joe Kennedy for giving him the campaign money to stay in power.

As for mandolins.... #I love them and think they are the sexiest instruments ever created. #

I'm speaking from experience. #These instruments are total "Chick" magnets.

Just ask my fiancé http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Eric F.]

Lucky, I'm sorry if that came off as a shot at you. Reading it over, I think it sounds snippier than I meant it. I was aiming for a certain light-hearted sarcasm. You're sure right about media concentration and the effect of television. I think it might be the worst non-military invention in history.

[luckylarue]

No worries, Eric. You were right. It was a case of typing before thinking! I've been reading "Reviving Ophelia" by Mary Pifer - scary stuff.